The Cellar - Israel has opened the gates of Hell

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- - Israel has opened the gates of Hell (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=28293)

No, no, no, tw! the Ultimate Prize is the Christian Rapture.

The Born-Agains are slavering over this stuff.

Ugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trilby (Post 839813)

No, no, no, tw! the Ultimate Prize is the Christian Rapture.

How can we have a second coming of Christ if he has not yet come the first time? Oh. Miracle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trilby (Post 839813)

No, no, no, tw! the Ultimate Prize is the Christian Rapture.

The Born-Agains are slavering over this stuff.

Ugh.

Boy, are they in for a surprise.

Quote:

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a large number of protestants (many of whom also believe that only that which is in the Bible can be true) it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather – otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials.
The term in the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture” actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to one person only (Philip).

Always worth a repeat posting:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 839826)

How can we have a second coming of Christ if he has not yet come the first time? Oh. Miracle.

And members of the Jewish faith don't have to concern themselves with it either way, since they don't accept the New Testament. No ravings by that certifiable crazy, John, who wrote the Book of Revelations, among other things for THEM! And I suppose this would hold true for members of the Muslim faith for the same reasons.

So, the rapture would open up lots of free land that no one was using anymore and the Muslims and Jews could just divide up between them all the land that Christians had left behind. Voila! No more Arab-Israeli dispute (yeah, right).

When the going gets tough, send in a woman...

Christian Science Monitor
Howard LaFranchi
11/21/12

Gaza cease-fire: Clinton role shows US still dominant in tough neighborhood

Quote:

After two days of Middle East shuttle diplomacy,
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton stood in Cairo
Wednesday evening as Egyptian Foreign Minister
Mohammmed Kamel Amr announced a cease-fire agreement
between Israel and Palestinians in Hamas-governed Gaza
designed to end eight days of deadly fighting.
<snip>

It seems to me that Ms Clinton has been an effective Sec of State.

It seems to me that Hillary should run in 2016.

Seems like everybody's got an opinion on this one... yeah, I know, they all have assholes too. :haha:

Top Ten Myths about Israeli Attack on Gaza.

Quote:

1. Israeli hawks represent themselves as engaged in a ‘peace process’ with the Palestinians in which Hamas refuses to join. In fact, Israel has refused to cease colonizing and stealing Palestinian land long enough to engage in fruitful negotiations with them. Tel Aviv routinely announces new, unilateral house-building on the Palestinian West Bank. There is no peace process. It is an Israeli and American sham. Talking about a peace process is giving cover to Israeli nationalists who are determined to grab everything the Palestinians have and reduce them to penniless refugees (again).

Stop pretending the US is an uninvolved, helpless party in the Israeli assault on Gaza

Quote:

A central premise of US media coverage of the Israeli attack on Gaza - beyond the claim that Israel is justifiably "defending itself" - is that this is some endless conflict between two foreign entitles, and Americans can simply sit by helplessly and lament the tragedy of it all. The reality is precisely the opposite: Israeli aggression is possible only because of direct, affirmative, unstinting US diplomatic, financial and military support for Israel and everything it does. This self-flattering depiction of the US as uninvolved, neutral party is the worst media fiction since TV news personalities covered the Arab Spring by pretending that the US is and long has been on the side of the heroic democratic protesters, rather than the key force that spent decades propping up the tyrannies they were fighting.

An Open Letter to the President

Quote:

My younger brother was an early believer in you. He worked for your Senate campaign. At the age of 25, he ran the GOTV campaign in North Carolina, delivering an improbable victory for you in a Southern state that helped give you your first term. This year, slightly less bright-eyed but nonetheless a believer, he was working on your campaign again when he died suddenly, a brilliant, energetic 29 year old, dead in his tracks. You know this. You called my parents. Your campaign, to my greatest appreciation and respect, brought grief counselors for his coworkers, dedicated a corner of the office and much of your fundraising efforts to him, and bussed his coworkers to join the hundreds of others at his funeral.
~snip~
My brother would be disappointed to see your impotence in the face of continuing Israeli aggression shortly after such a sweeping re-election victory. I am still proud of him. I am still proud of all of the Americans that worked so hard to deliver you this re-election. But I am so hurt and ashamed to watch you use restraint when you are the only person with the power to stop this massacre. Mr. President, I am barely over 5 feet tall and I am not afraid of AIPAC; why are you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 839959)

It seems to me that Ms Clinton has been an effective Sec of State.

Always was a question about the US/Egyptian diplomatic relationship now that Morsi (Muslim Brotherhood) is the resident power. What Clinton, Obama, and Morsi (et al) have done is nothing more than impressive. They got both Israel (that was on the verge of an invasion) and Hamas to concede on points that nobody would have expected either party to conceded on.

Well, now we must see how 'honest' both parties will be. Israel has a long history of reneging on details that undermine or compromise an agreement. Hamas has a serious problem reigning in its extremists - especially Salafis. Salafis have even attacked Egyptian troops in the Sinai.

Maintaining this settlement will be challenging. But achieving that agreement was a major accomplishment for US/Egyptian diplomacy. Suggests that US - Egyptian relations remain as strong as ever.

From the Washington Post of 22 Nov 2012 entitled "Hamas leaders emerge stronger than ever, Palestinians say":

Quote:

Hamas has struggled to control extremist offshoots within the coastal enclave, and it was unclear whether the new truce had rendered the group any more capable of preventing a breach by other groups that possess long-range rockets, including Islamic Jihad ...
Some Palestinians, including militants and top government officials, warned that Israel ... might back down from the secondary clauses of the cease-fire deal. ...

“Israel besieged the Hamas government to make people hate Hamas. And in the beginning, they really did,” said a strawberry farmer who declined to give his name because he hopes to cross the border one day.

“But after this war, even people in the West Bank are loving Hamas now,” he said.

Ironically, a loser is Fatah - a noncombatant.

Usually, we hear only from the top dogs in government, or talking heads,
when it comes to the war/peace negotiations between factions.
Or we see only the pics and videos of the military (drone) strikes.

But the video linked below is unusual in that the main speaker is a man
who actually drafted a peace accord between Israel and Hamas.
The headline is inflammatory, but the discussion is quite reasonable.

I found it quite fascinating and informative of the status of
Hamas and Iraeli negotiations just before the fighting broke out again...

[The discussion starts at the 20 min mark, and is only about 10 min long]

Democracy Now
Amy Goodman
11/16/12

Israeli Negotiator: Hamas Commander Was Assassinated Hours After Receiving Truce Deal from Israel
Israel broke an informal ceasefire on Wednesday by assassinating
Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari in an air strike.
The Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate talks between
Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit,
has revealed Jabari was assassinated just hours after he received
the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel,
which included mechanisms for maintaining the ceasefire.
<snip>

Quote:

Not so fast dep't: one day later, it turns out there was a high price to pay for a momentary ceasefire... the probable end of Egypt's new Democracy.

NY Times: Citing Deadlock, Egypt’s Leader Seizes New Power and Plans Mubarak Retrial

CAIRO — With a constitutional assembly on the brink of collapse and protesters battling the police in the streets over the slow pace of change, President Mohamed Morsi issued a decree on Thursday granting himself broad powers above any court as the guardian of Egypt’s revolution, and used his new authority to order the retrial of Hosni Mubarak.

Mr. Morsi, an Islamist and Egypt’s first elected president, portrayed his decree as an attempt to fulfill popular demands for justice and protect the transition to a constitutional democracy. But the unexpected breadth of the powers he seized raised immediate fears that he might become a new strongman. Seldom in history has a postrevolutionary leader amassed so much personal power only to relinquish it swiftly.

“An absolute presidential tyranny,” Amr Hamzawy, a liberal member of the dissolved Parliament and prominent political scientist, wrote in an online commentary. “Egypt is facing a horrifying coup against legitimacy and the rule of law and a complete assassination of the democratic transition.”

Mr. Morsi issued the decree at a high point in his five-month-old presidency, when he was basking in praise from the White House and around the world for his central role in negotiating a cease-fire that the previous night had stopped the fighting in the Gaza Strip between Israel and Hamas.

But, but, but...

Mubarak was sentenced to life imprisonment.

Could Morsi just be planning something akin to Gerald Ford's pardon of Nixon ?

ETA: or maybe another Judge Roy Bean ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 840231)

Could Morsi just be planning something akin to Gerald Ford's pardon of Nixon ?

Having made America so appreciative, Morsi looks like he his taking advantage of that newly won political capital. Morsi had declared the Judiciary inferior to the President. And he has a point. Egypt still has not delivered a constitution that was due last September at the latest. Nothing official defined powers of each branch - Judiciary, Parliament, or President.

Meanwhile, Mubarak era judges disbanned Parliament. And could not successfully prosecuate many Mubarak top officials in the death of so many demonstrators.

Egyptians who listen to Morsi's speeches tell me he speaks heavily in religious rhetoric. Completely different from the pragmatic leader who so successfully negoitated a Palestinian / Israeli settlement.

We just don't know where he stands. In a country full on competing political parties including the extremist Salafis, he apparenty must remain somewhat undefined. Many also say these judges have a history of standing up against both Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Charlie Rose repeatedly asked him if he was an American ally. He repeatedly replied he was an American friend.