The Cellar - Vote Early

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- - Vote Early (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=5542)

Quote:

Originally posted by Clodfobble
Really? See, I thought he was just going to reverse Bush's tax cuts. ... And my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Kerry is going to repeal all the tax cuts, some of which directly affected me, and those are the ones I care about.

You are wrong. From Kerry's site:

Quote:

John Kerry has the courage to take on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. However, he believes that we should keep the middle class tax cuts that Democrats fought for in 2001 and 2003. Specifically, he wants to protect the increases in the child tax credit, the reduced marriage penalty and the new tax bracket that helps people save $350 on their first level of income. He strongly disagrees with Democrats who want to repeal these tax cuts because it would cost a typical middle-class family with two children an additional $2,000. These families are often already struggling with higher health care costs and higher state and local taxes. In fact, John Kerry wants to give more tax breaks to the middle class with new tax credits on health care and college tuition. These tax cuts are part of his plan to restore the economy and cut the budget deficit in half in four years.

Your portion of the deficit this year is larger than the tax break you got. Difference is that your kids will be paying that. Feel like explaining that to them?

I agree, deficits have to be paid for by someone eventually. But I feel pretty certain this particular deficit won't be around 20 years from now for my kids to pay for. Some other deficit probably will be, but there will also be years of balanced budgets in there too. Hell, Kerry himself says he can cut the thing in half in just four years. If it's that easily done, then more than likely it will be--it's the pendulum nature of our government system. Even if you don't believe Bush will do it, at the very least someone else will get a shot another four years from now.

The possibility that money has been spent poorly by this administration is a separate idea from whether the tax cuts were a bad idea in this particular economy, and the former does not inherently mean the latter. If I am asked to explain to my children someday that, yes, I wanted to keep the tax cuts I got because it directly enabled them to live in a better school district during a time when we could not have afforded it otherwise, then I think I can do so with confidence. The fact that we as a country ALSO spent a lot of money on a war at the same time is another issue entirely.

If, as Happy Monkey showed, Kerry really does intend to keep the middle-class tax cuts, and follows through on that promise (assuming he has the opportunity), then great. As it is I don't want to vote for either of them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Clodfobble
Your portion of the deficit this year is larger than the tax break you got. Difference is that your kids will be paying that. Feel like explaining that to them?

I agree, deficits have to be paid for by someone eventually. But I feel pretty certain this particular deficit won't be around 20 years from now for my kids to pay for. Some other deficit probably will be, but there will also be years of balanced budgets in there too. Hell, Kerry himself says he can cut the thing in half in just four years. If it's that easily done, then more than likely it will be--it's the pendulum nature of our government system. Even if you don't believe Bush will do it, at the very least someone else will get a shot another four years from now.

You can read this article about the International Monetary Fund's warnings on the US debt. This is their second or third warning this year.

Quote:

IMF warns of consequences from U.S. deficits
Global prosperity at risk if America doesn't control budget

April 14, 2004 WASHINGTON - Uncontrolled U.S. budget deficits would pose a serious threat to global prosperity in coming years as rising interest rates depress economic growth in the United States and around the world, the International Monetary Fund warned Wednesday.

So, rich, you're saying Kerry is wrong to promise to keep the middle class tax cuts in place?

Kerry's appearance on "Meet The Press"

Transcript:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4772030/

I saw the show this morning. I had no complaints whatsoever.

Kerry, 2004! :D

Quote:

Originally posted by lookout123

you forget about the major obstacle to that - YOU! do you honestly believe that if we were moving in that direction that individuals, such as yourself wouldn't be up in arms, protesting and contacting your local rep's?

You mean like the protesters being sheperded into 'free speech zones', and not reported in the mainstream media?

Quote:

germany in the early 20th century was destitute, not uncomfortable, not poor (as defined by only having 1 vehicle, 1tv, and dial up internet). they were destitute not from the actions of their internal leaders but by the burden placed upon them by a veangeful continent. they were ripe for the plucking. and here is a landmine - the german people historically have been disciplined followers. the american public, although mindless sheep at times, rarely unites in a large meaningful way, for anything but short term goals.

Germany in the 1930's was undergoing a period of extreme nationalism in response to perceived foreign threats. They systematically marginalized and segregated target groups.

If you don't see a similarity in America today, you're not looking.

A common misconception is that the death camps were built overnight. That is not true. It first started with new laws. One of the criticism's of the new Homeland Security department was that Homeland sounded a lot like Fatherland.

And up until the Abu Graib pictures were releases, how many Americans were asking their Congressman about what was going on in Guantanamo Bay and the military prisons? All our goverment had to say was 'national security', and we looked the other way. How many times have we heard the word 'treason' trotted out by neocons? How much of a step will it be for the Justice Department to begin taking those accusations seriously?

Don't think that because we have McDonalds and Wal-Marts that something like that can't happen here. That was the mistake everyone made in the 1930's. "Germans are rational." "Germans are civilized." "Germany is a free republic." "This will all get better soon".

Quote:

Kerry's running mate will not be Dick Cheney.

Got an NRA magazine today, an there's Dick smiling from the podium of the annual NRA meeting in Pittsburgh.:)

Quote:

Originally posted by Happy Monkey
Unfortunately, I am primarily voting against Bush, rather than for Kerry. Kerry was about sixth in my Democratic lineup. But Bush is at the absolute bottom. Of course, there are people who could squeeze in under him (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, DeLay), but they aren't running.

Last election, I had hope for third parties (not that they could win, but that they could start growing), and voted Libertarian*.
Of course, living in DC, it hardly matters how I vote, but Bush has shattered my complacency that Dems and Reps are similar enough to not matter, so I'll have to go Democrat this time.

Kerry was fourth in my list, Clark, Dean & Edwards were ahead of him to me......but he can STILL redeem himself by choosing one of the three as his running mate....

I feel a vote for Kerry isn't a vote for the Democrats, (since I'm an independent I try to stay neutral) but by voting for him, it hurts junior more than voting 3rd party, which I did in 2000 & 96....although in 92 I was ALL for slick willie....

Later :rattat:

Quote:

Originally posted by mrnoodle
..........because he won't hand our balls to the U.N. the first time they whine for them.

This is one of the reasons I'll be voting for Bush. The UN is not my government (yet).

God endorses Bush, with a little hesitation.

He endorses you without any reservation ... not returning the favor? Or are you nervous about mixing religion and politics too?

Quote:

Originally posted by slang
This is one of the reasons I'll be voting for Bush. The UN is not my government (yet).

Slang, I missed you, you old son-of-a-bitch.

Have some Kool-Aid...

http://ciberbosque.org/images/sycamore/koolaid2.gif

Lemon-Lime!! Thanks Syc! That's my favorite! ( takes a big gulp )

That's strange. It tastes a little like almonds.

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
Or are you nervous about mixing religion and politics too?

I'm not but it makes the non-believers angry(er) if I try to meddle or pols even speak my name.

That's a very funny title you have there too Wolf.