Depends on your perspective. Roundabout 1776, the conservatives would have been pro-England, as opposed to the radical secessionists.

And what about the islamists preaching in the country against whites and for terror?

Which country?

Ok lady syc , i agree with you mostly , BUT why is it ok for a black person to call another black person the "N" word but let a white person say the same word and they are racist ???? Where is the fucking equality there ???? And YES it buges the fuck out of me to be called cracker by a black person for this same reason .

A few years back i was working in a plant that had a black superviser , he called all the black people by name , all the white people he called bubba . I said " ok rastis " , he got verry Irate . I told him my name is CHRIS NOT BUBBA !!!! We had to be seperated so we didn't kill each other .

Not trying to rile you up , just curious .

Coming in rather late here, but what the heck? I understand Dana's stance in light of modern European history. While this country took part in WWII, our people and our country were not nearly as ravaged by the results of Hitler's Hate Machine as the Europeans were.

Hitler's was a clever evil, coming at precisely the right time and place, and worded so as to find support from the German people. You can hardly compare his words with a random insult about the people of Iowa that finds no resonance with those who read it.

Try this insult instead: The US is going to hell thanks to all those lazy N- 's and Mexicans who sit around all day on welfare and bleed the honest, hard-working taxpayer dry.

Now that I have your attention...

I am actually on the side of free speech and if that means free insults then so be it. It's just that I can understand why Dana and many other Europeans might feel as they do.

When my right to free speech means the right to incite hatred, one starts to walk a fine line. The trouble is who gets to define what "inciting hatred" consists of? Sure ethnic slurs would fall into that category, but what about someone who says "You white republicans" or "you black democrats"? One could easily make a case for outlawing statements like those as well if you are going to outlaw ethnic slurs or words which inspire hatred between the races. There we go down that slippery slope which ends with those in power censoring the words of those who are not.

As unpaletable as it may be, I'll accept your right to make racist statements, publish pornography (although I draw the line at kid and snuff porn, sorry), and make the "Anarchist's Cookbook" available in every public library because freedom of speech is one of the most valuable freedoms a person or a people can have. When the censors take over, the people have lost.

Wasn't it a little thing called the revolutionary war?

My history is a bit weak in the 1800s ... but didn't they blockade Southern ports in the Civil War?

You forgot the stupid white trash who are equally culpable.

Sure, that's a good ethnic insult, too.;)

*sighs* I don't get some attitudes here, nor the shallowness of opinion. How the fuck are some of you people thick enough to extrapolate this represents general french opinion is beyond me.

The racial situation in France at the moment is an interesting one for sure and it's mostly the result of poor planning by the french government, whether the situation can repaired now is hard to tell. There's been a very stories posted here on the happenings on the outskirts of Paris, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

I also find the irony of americans claiming to have free speach pretty funny as well.

The last time the french came to the aid of the US was about 4 days ago in allowing the UN resoluion to be passed, which frankly, in their position I wouldn't have done without more concessions.

Similar laws were passed in Victoria, my state in Australia a couple of years back, while I don't entirely agree with them they've only been used about 4 times in extreme cases and have probably contributed to the greater good. They certainly haven't had a limiting effect on public discussion.

Go ahead, knock me out. Who's the last guy to sit in an American prison for making a racial slur? How about for criticizing the ruling powers? For protesting against the war? For advocating an unpopular, radical overhaul of the culture or the law?

Several months ago, I ended up in the middle of downtown LA, near a protest against the war in Iraq. There were people standing on a platform, speaking into a microphone to a crowd of thousands, and saying the most vile and hateful things against the leader of our country. Standing around the perimeter were hundreds of police officers - they were facing outward. They were protecting the protestors from the angry counter-protestors gathered to shout them down.

You want to know the condition of our freedom here in America? We pay officers of the state to protect and defend those who criticize the state.

-sm

That's pretty rich coming from a knee-jerk anti-American.

IMO, Bardot wasn't fined because her remarks offended Muslims. She was fined because by being against Islam, she appeared to on the side of the US.

If people in other places are content with making laws to protect everyone from hate speech and allowing their governments to enforce them, that's fine. I personally don't trust our government any further than I can throw them, and feel that enough of my civil liberties have been violated in the last few years. Plus, there's too much grey area when it comes to what is hate speech and what is not.

In order to truly call oneself a 1st Amendment supporter, I believe that one must particularly support the speech that they don't like.

Point out the last one in Europe too, particularly your last point, we have bigger problems with far right groups across the EU than in the US and they're given a fairly free ride.

On the flipside, I dare you to openly advocate that Bin Laden is right, Bush should die and america destroyed and wait and when they finish putting you in 'stress positions' along with a few other US citizens in the US prison camp in Cuba, outside the protection of your legal system so you can be held for as long as they see fit without trial, we'll discuss this again.

Failing that, try not to come a cropper of libel or slader laws, they can be a mite tricky at times.

Oh an russotto, try reading sometime. See I bolded it to make it nice and easy for you.

Syc, I think you forgot that voltaire quote that has to go with that post ;)

BIN LADEN WAS RIGHT!
BUSH SHOULD DIE!
AMERIKA SHOULD BE DESTROYED!

I'll let you know if I'm still around at the end of the day.;)

hadn't thought about it from that angle. i don't know if i'm ready to buy into it, but anything is possible.