What other arseholes? Its 5AM!
Sayin that tho, part of my "method" is to concentrate on the other cars, to help them keep me awake.

I don't have your option at all. I cannot stop for a "rest" on the side of the road. I have to get to work, end of story.

yup I get it.

Whatever. I don't fall asleep, I don't close my eyes. I don't have any other choice than to go to work or kill myself in my bedroom.

Is public transport not an option Moar? I only ask, because I have a similar problem with tiredness in the mornings. Sometimes it's all i can do to keep my eyes open whenI am travelling to university. Fortunately, I am on the bus at the time so the worst case scenario is I fall asleep and miss my stop. I cannot imagine attempting to drive in that state. I'd be a serious danger, i know I would.

That said I know plenty of drivers who have to deal with tiredness (particularly on longer drives) and who have lots of mental tricks to keep them from dropping off ( a little like you promising yourself you can close your eyes for a minute after a set time). I just know I wouldn't be abe to handle that :P

I used to believe that people would make ethical rational decisions given enough information. This conversation is putting a big f'in magnet in the authoritarian quadrant of my political compass.

I think we should probably be careful not to be too judgemental on this. People often know their 'limits' and a one-size-fits-all approach is only really useful in a legislative sense. We all employ mental tricks to get us through various things: the fact that Moar tells herself she can close her eyes, doesn't actually make her a dangerous driver. Many, many people drive when tired. I wuold imagine half the people commuting in a morning do so with a stifled yawn.

Focusing on the texting/phoning aspect as I don't know how tired Moar is, I'd say it is clear that people don't know their limits. I had a driver passing me at a reasonable speed on a crowded interstate a couple days back. He was matching the passing lane speed and I was matching the other lane. He received a phone call just as he got ahead of me. He then scrubbed off his speed and proceeded to wander around the passing lane going well under the average speed for either lane but staying in the passing lane until he disappeared in my rear view.

Admittedly, the texting "addiction" is bringing out the grumpy old man in me. On vacation last week, I saw restaurant workers texting on the job instead of attending to customers and a group of teenage customers, ignoring one of their mates who wasn't on a cell, rotating in and out of the building texting and calling leaving her mostly alone to stew for some 45 minutes. To her credit she blew up on them eventually. A technology that could be about "us" is turning out to be about "me" making people less connected instead of more.

Heck - Teenagers today don't even talk to each other anymore - its all in txtspk. They can't write in plain English either. Its all about me and its all in a new language. I fear for the future of this planet - the lackadaisical attitudes....

:lol:

I'm at the point where I am not comfortable with Jim driving for this reason. I've watched him fall asleep at the wheel when he obviously feels like he has things under control. The "methods" that he uses to keep himself awake (opening the window, slapping his leg, pulling out chest hair) clearly don't work, so I have little trust that other people's methods work for them.

Driving while tired and driving while falling asleep aren't the same thing. Don't drive while falling alseep - it's fucking rude.

just because lots of people do it doesn't make it not dangerous. That said, I feel that stifling a yawn requires little cognitive effort, but playing tricks on yourself to keep your eyes open requires concentration that should be being used on the driving and also suggests that the eyes are open but maybe not communicating with the brain as much as required for driving.

People often overlook tiredness as a danger when driving. Yup, I'd rather you were tired than drunk or texting. Right until that point when you finally lose your concentration game and t-bone me. And there's no legislation that can be made to prevent people from driving when they are too tired. And if it isn't illegal, some people will continue to think it's not unsafe. And I only hope that it's a tree they hit and not another vehicle when they finally do mess up.

I'm generally quite easy-going.
But every now and then the right-wing-reactionary in me comes to the fore.

I cannot see any reason to text and drive.
Nope, no way.
If it's that important you can pull over and make a call.

Have I ever texted and driven?
Yes.
The first day after I passed my test I drove into London. First time on a motorway, first time driving in a city. I responded to a text while on a slip road, and started rolling back into the car behind. He laid on the horn (thank god) and I realised what a plum I was. Never again or since.

I know I won't persuade anyone else it's a bad thing.
All I can say is it's not something I would ever condone. Good luck.

If I was hitting the road at 5AM, I'd probably be waking up at around 4AM, so I'd have to be going to sleep at around 8:30 PM.

I'm very sympathetic to your situation. I couldn't imagine going to bed that early. It is hard to change a sleeping schedule. If you are serious about changing the schedule, one of the best things is to cut out caffeine after say 10:00 AM. Don't take any naps during the day. Get some exercise each day. Eat an early dinner. Like around 5:30 PM. Avoid screen time after dinner. That includes computers. The light of the screen shining in your face resets your body's natural clock and makes it think it's day time and time to be awake.

Start small. Try going to bed 15 minutes earlier tonight. And do that each night, until you are going to bed around 7-8 hours earlier than you need to be waking up. It should take you around 2 weeks to get on a decent schedule.

The really hard part will be the weekends. You'll be tempted to stay up later on the weekends because you can sleep late, but that will destroy any progress you make at getting on an earlier schedule.

Thanks, Glatt, as always you lead by example. nice post.

Nope, I was turning. He was busy going about 40 through a red light.

mtp, you're too young to be that tired. Have you had blood work done lately? I mean, no offense, but when I was your age I fairly popped out of bed to get to my early farm job.

glatt gave some great guidelines, if those don't work, see a doctor.

You know we care about you. Please listen to us old fogeys. :)