The Cellar - Pope orders NJ laws to Conform to his Decrees

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- - Pope orders NJ laws to Conform to his Decrees (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=5523)

Not because he is a devout Catholic. Because he was ELECTED based on the fact that he is a devout Catholic. The people elected him thinking he would vote that way. He should vote to ban those things because that was the platform he ran on. That's integrity.

Quote:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar

If you campaigned as a "devout Catholic" and then all the Catholics voted for you, how can you, in good conscience, (and in the following of your beliefs) vote that it's ok? When you ran for office, everyone knew you were a Catholic! Isn't that why you told everyone? So they would vote for the person who they think would present their side to the government? Isnt' that what an elected official does?

Oh, poppycock. Anyone with half a brain knows damn well, that any politician (even devout ones) are not going to be bound by the tenets of their religion when performing the duties of their office. If they did, they wouldn't even get close to running for Governor.
Besides the Governor can't ban jack shit. He doesn't make the laws, he can only yea/nay on them, and can still be overridden.
Ok the bottom line is you're saying some or all polititians are hypocritical. What's your point?:p

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
Chruch doctrine says there can be no abortion, no divorse, and no birth control. You are saying a devout (your definition) McGreevey must ban abortion, divorse, and birth control. Yes or no. Its not a complex question. Because he is a devout Catholic, then he must ban abortion, divorse, and birth control?

And the simple answer, I think he should vote for those things to be banned. Yes. We know one man can't ban anything by himself. But he was elected (at least partially) on the grounds the he is Catholic, so I would expect him to vote in accordance to his beliefs. That's why I voted him in there, isn't it?? And he labelled himself as "devout", I didn't.

de·vout ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-vout)
adj. de·vout·er, de·vout·est
Devoted to religion or to the fulfillment of religious obligations. See Synonyms at religious.
Displaying reverence or piety.
Sincere; earnest: devout wishes for their success.

So if someone says "I am a devout (insert religion here)", I EXPECT that person to be devoted to that religion, and VOTE in accordance with those beliefs.

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Oh, poppycock. Anyone with half a brain knows damn well, that any politician (even devout ones) are not going to be bound by the tenets of their religion when performing the duties of their office. If they did, they wouldn't even get close to running for Governor.
Besides the Governor can't ban jack shit. He doesn't make the laws, he can only yea/nay on them, and can still be overridden.
Ok the bottom line is you're saying some or all polititians are hypocritical. What's your point?:p

That's exactly my point, Bruce. If you refuse to follow the "rules" and way of the church, don't label yourself as devout. Because you aren't. That's my sole point. It's tw that is choosing to overanalyse. (Surprise)

A QUESTION FOR TW

did you write the label for dr. bronner's peppermint castille soap?

A lot of people call themselves devout, but know that when other people say they are, it's bullshit because no one follows the rules to the T. It's impossible, If it wasn't there wouldn't be any confession. :)
Can you consider yourself devout if you feel you've made an honest attempt? Devout is a judgement call.

John Kerry's own website describes him as a "active member of the Catholic Faith."

The site also informs that he has two daughters, and his wife Teresa Heinz, has three sons.

She is not the mother of his daughters.

The question must be raised, particularly since quite a media fuss was raised over his taking Communion on Easter Sunday, as to how his first marriage ended ... divorce or annulment?

Did she eat the mushrooms?;)

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
The question must be raised, particularly since quite a media fuss was raised over his taking Communion on Easter Sunday, as to how his first marriage ended ... divorce or annulment?

Annulled according to Kerry. The Boston Archdiocese won't comment on it. (Source)

Some conservative talking heads and publications say the annulment was a messy issue...among them, Newsmax and Ann Coulter.

So Kerry won't get the vote of the "perfect" Catholics, only the ones who feel it might be ok to play off the rules a tad?

If anything, I think this shit will actually gain him more Catholic votes. I've personally never met a to-the-letter Catholic...or any to-the-letter follower of any religion, for that matter.

Quote:

Annulled according to Kerry.

Annullments in the RC church are very expensive and time consuming but you not only get to marry in the church again, you get your virginity back. Now that's got to be worth something.:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Annullments in the RC church are very expensive and time consuming but you not only get to marry in the church again, you get your virginity back. Now that's got to be worth something.

The cost depends on the diocese--St. Louis charges $500, though I don't think they charged at the time of my mom's annulment (mid-80s). Detroit charges nothing.

In DelCo it was $1200 in 1970, a lot of paper work and several months. Probably Kerry got it on the phone, in 5 minutes, for free.
It's good to be a friend of the king, too.:)

Quote:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
And the simple answer, I think he should vote for those things to be banned. Yes.

Finally we have it. All Catholics should ban abortions, ban divorse, ban birth control, ban pre-marital sex, and hate gays. You have just demanded that politicians do just as the pope orders only because Catholic is their religion. How anti-American. How intolerant. How dangerous. Pope has ordered US laws be changed to conform to his interpretations. Pope has ordered the US Constitution be subverted.

Why do we have divorse laws, abortion laws, access to birth control, and work to eliminate hate against gays? Because we recognize such church decrees as an enemy of a free, tolerant, and secular America. Even the most religious nations - Ireland and Italy - find some pope decrees as naive, stupid, intolerant, wrong headed, foolish, perverse, and nefarious. Disagree? Then why do even Italy and Ireland permit birth control and divorse? Because those most devout Catholic nations choose to honor their god rather than a misguided church bureaucracy.

We call it secular goverment for good reasons - because religions make bad laws and even advocate wars that killed more people than the Black Plague. So all fundamentalist Muslims in America should kill Christians if only an Ayatolla announces a Fatwah? Yes, according the OnyxCougar's reasoning. How dangerous her logic. Fortunately in America, religious doctrine has no place in secular government or in science - the reasons why mankind has suddenly advanced so far so fast.

Dogma of one misguided pope is more important than American principles? This pope would even violate scripture (Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars ...) to promote a political - not religious - agenda. The bible. We should change our laws only because he is so senile as to violate a fundamental biblical concept?

McGreevey has choosen to follow the bible rather than political demands of a dying and senile pope. Doing so makes him a devout and superior Catholic. This pope even contradicts scripture. Pope should have retired long ago. You agree with one pope's perverted decrees (previous popes were not so ignorant)? Good thing we instead have a devout Catholic as Govenor of NJ who puts the bible before a pathetic man.