and mari - i stated earlier that everyone of has a god of some sort. if you are saying "under god" why do you assume we all have to be talking about the same one.

one person may be saying "under Allah"

another "under jeshua"

another "under Jesus"

another "under troubleshooter"

Never mind the phrase "under God," why should little kids in effect be programmed with a loyalty oath everyday before school? Doesn't that seem a little Orwellian?

A lot of people who enter this country from elsewhere in the world find this aspect of American life to be one of the strangest. I've had more than one visitor from Europe and South America note that they found it creepy that children recite the pledge almost robotically every single morning. "Why do you need to pledge your allegiance every day? Don't they believe you the first time?" When viewed from an outside perspective, I suppose it does seem really odd, but I can't remember a school day going by without it, ever, so I don't know anything else.

In thinking of it this way, I became really curious as to the origins and reasoning behind the pledge.

Pledge Origins

Back in November of 2001, in reaction to the September 11th terrorist attacks, Wisconsin passed a law requiring all schools to offer the Pledge or anthem daily in grades one to twelve.

This is really weird even to me -- an American who attended school and heard it everyday. Why must a law be passed in order for students to reaffirm their patriotism? Shouldn't that sense of pride in your country come about on its own?

From this day forward the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty. ...Over the globe millions have been deadened in mind and soul by a materialistic philosophy of life. ...In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever shall be our country's most powerful resource in peace or in war.

i also read about a lady in NY who was extremely pissed about the flag-waving, and all the pro-America rhetoric at a public event. of course she was only quoted in the newspaper because she was one of the first group of to gain citizenship after 9/11.

why does FL have a law making it illegal to screw an alligator? because politicians like to get face time by introducing useless legislation.

Hey! Wanna know what Colorado's new state rock is? Oh, never mind.;)

why does FL have a law making it illegal to screw an alligator? because politicians like to get face time by introducing useless legislation.

Huh. Wouldn't it be weird if that is what this whole "Pledge" this was to begin with? Oh, wait...

They shouldn't.Like I said, it's more complicated than that. Some Buddhists believe in God, some don't. I used it to meet lookout123's "some eastern philosophies" quote. The difference is probably countered by some of the "Random other" which I gave to the "God" side, but in the end it doesn't affect the argument much.

another undertoad?

whatever floats your boat. i just think that if you are your own god it would be a real kick to hear every one say "under _____" every morning, and secretly know they are talking about me.

Naw, I's just playing the play on words. I think it would be too much responsibility to hear all these people making requests of me and such. Although it would be good to have my name called out every time somebody orgasms.

I still haven't read/heard any reason why an atheist would be 'hurt' by saying or hearing the world God.
Ok, so this guy goes off to sue to have Under God removed because its presence is harmful to his daughter. That being the case, why stop there? If it hurts and offends him so much, he should push to ban words and phrases, like Oh my God! or God-given, in the same way people push to have books banned. He should give Webster a call and demand to have those words and phrases removed from dictionaries and thesauruses and like books because his daughter just might read them. NBC should get an earful anytime one of the Friends says "Oh my God!" Let's go, buddy boy, your Crusade has only just begun! (oh wait...can I even call it a crusade?)

Why just single out the government when his daughter is more likely to hear and repeat the term God from so many other places than in the Pledge? Maybe its because the government is capable of the biggest pay out, just in case he wins?

The issue is...by having the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, is the government endorsing religion?

Why just single out the government when his daughter is more likely to hear and repeat the term God from so many other places than in the Pledge? Maybe its because the government is capable of the biggest pay out, just in case he wins?

I think these are the issues most people have with it:

The public school system is/was forcing children to say the pledge under threat of punishment.
The pledge contains the words "under god".
This version of the pledge, unlike the original, gives the impression that pledging your allegiance to the United States of America requires that you recognize that it is "under God".
"Under God" is understood, by most, to specifically refer to the Christian version recognized by the majority.
The words "under god" are thought, by most, to suggest that our government is endorsing this Christian god. Many people find this unconstitutional.

This doesn't have to do with the word "god" causing aethist's ears to burn and heads to explode as much as it does that there is the suggestion that people of other religions or no religions are not able to pledge their allegiance to the country and are excluded from this activity that takes place in every classroom in every public school in the nation.

GHWB (41) in 1988:

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are Atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the Atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are Atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

There you go CW: an American Vice-President, at a press conference where he is running for President, using the pledge to state that Atheists are not citizens or patriots. And the result? He was elected.

Nice goin'

Is that a real quote? That's amazing to me that Bush would say that. I think I hate the guy as much as I can, and then you show me reasons to hate him even more.

Edited to say I just saw the part that it was his Dad that said it. Nevermind.

[quote]Originally posted by Cyber Wolf
OK, now we're in "sticks and stones will break by bones but words will never hurt me" category. If it doesn't "hurt" atheists to acknowledge God, surely it won't "hurt" Christians to be coerced into publicly deny the divinity of Jesus. It's just words, right? Why stop at the Pledge of Allegiance? We could mandate the recitation of the Apostle's Creed! Hell, it's just words, right?

You just can't say "it won't hurt the damned athiests because it's just a formality and nobody takes it seriously anyway" because then you've trivialized it, and it doesn't mean anything to the believers anyway, does it?

But enough of this. I agree with marichiko. All this religious talk distracts from the issue of Stepford-like indoctrination directed at the flag!! Not the country... not the constitution... not even our beloved government officials... but the flag... a fetishization which, in my book, borders on idolatry (for those of you who've read the First Commandment).