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-   -   Mental Nuts-- Can You Crack 'em? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=26507)

BigV 12-30-2011 05:56 PM

Ok, fair enough.

What does it mean to circle a tree? To you, that is.

glatt 12-30-2011 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey (Post 783944)
And I'm sorry for losing it earlier.

It's all good. I understand what you are saying about the skwerl. I just have a different perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 783948)
If I walk around your house when you're home, have I circled your house? Have I circled you? In what way does it matter how you're moving inside your house as I circle it with respect to my circling you?

this

infinite monkey 12-30-2011 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus (Post 783956)
As Deming would say, we can't agree on an answer without appropriate operational definitions.

I get so excited when you get all QA on me. ;)

footfootfoot 12-30-2011 08:08 PM

And always keeps the tree between himself and the hunter

This is the crucial bit of information.

Consider a bicycle wheel for example. The hole in the rim for the valve stem is opposite the seam of the rim. The wheel revolves around the axle. The valve stem and seam each go around the axle every revolution. They do not go around each other. They do go around the position the other previously occupied however. Compare this to a ratchet wrench. The socket is the axis, the handle goes around the axis, but the handle does not go around itself.
The squirrel always keeps the tree between himself and the hunter. The tree is the axis, the squirrel is the seam on the rim and the hunter is the valve stem.

No, the hunter does not walk around his gun. His gun is not stationary, it moves with him. He may walk around the location his gun used to be, but that is not the same as walking around his gun. Unless he has one of those special mag-lev guns that just hangs in mid air while you circumambulate around it. Otherwise, if it is a normal gun then he will be taking it with him when he walks around the tree.

footfootfoot 12-30-2011 08:33 PM

FFS here's the next one: (I have updated it so you modern "new math" educated folks can understand it.


Setting aside their differences, Classicman and Infinite Monkey pool their money and invest in some very tiny houses on very tiny lots in a very sketchy neighborhood.
Classic invests $5000. and Infi invests $3000 and they buy three identical houses. Classic and Infi each choose a home for them own selfs. They then sell the remaining house to some complete rube for $8000. How should they divvy the cash?

Clodfobble 12-30-2011 09:28 PM

Classic owns 5/8ths of the company stock, Infi owns 3/8ths. So the dividends go 5/8ths to Classic ($5,000) and 3/8ths to Infi ($3,000.)

It should also be noted that when they sell Infi's house, she will owe 5/8ths of those proceeds to Classic as well.

monster 12-30-2011 11:05 PM

Is the understanding that they are each to own their own house after the transaction? If so, they should divide the money as clod says then infi should give classic $2,000 so he will end up with $7,000 and a house and she will end up with $1000 and a house (he owns 5/8 of her shouse, she owns 3/8 of his, assume all three houses worth 8,000 at that time, so the difference is 2/8)

But that was too easy so it must be wrong.

jimhelm 12-30-2011 11:47 PM

You forgot to factor in the divorce attorneys cut. They both get zilch.

classicman 12-30-2011 11:54 PM

I get all the money - That way I 'll have a down payment on a new Maxima.

footfootfoot 12-31-2011 08:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 783991)
Is the understanding that they are each to own their own house after the transaction? If so, they should divide the money as clod says then infi should give classic $2,000 so he will end up with $7,000 and a house and she will end up with $1000 and a house (he owns 5/8 of her shouse, she owns 3/8 of his, assume all three houses worth 8,000 at that time, so the difference is 2/8)

But that was too easy so it must be wrong.

You are wrong; your answer was right.
You are wrong about being wrong so your answer is correct.

And now for something completely different:

BigV 12-31-2011 11:23 AM

1.111111111111 bushels

total minus 10 percent equals 90 percent.

90 percent (what the miller gave the customer) equals one bushel.

.9*total = 1 bushel

(.9*total)/.9 = (1 bushel)/.9

total == 1.11111111111 bushels

Clodfobble 12-31-2011 02:05 PM

Oh no, I think we've established that when you are giving part of something to someone, the answer is to borrow some extra so you don't have to work in decimals.

BigV 12-31-2011 02:21 PM

LULZ!

footfootfoot 12-31-2011 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 784077)
1.111111111111 bushels

total minus 10 percent equals 90 percent.

90 percent (what the miller gave the customer) equals one bushel.

.9*total = 1 bushel

(.9*total)/.9 = (1 bushel)/.9

total == 1.11111111111 bushels

please state your answer as a fraction in order to claim your point for the winning answer.

footfootfoot 12-31-2011 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 784101)
Oh no, I think we've established that when you are giving part of something to someone, the answer is to borrow some extra so you don't have to work in decimals.

Wise ass.
When you are dividing an entire living creature that may be the case as a fractional piece of livestock is a) of limited value and b) more than likely no longer living and therefore no longer livestock.

Bushels of grain can be divided fractionally so there is no need to borrow anything. However it is a pain in the ass to measure out 1/9 of a bushel.

1/9 of 8 gallons is .888888888888889 gallons...

xoxoxoBruce 12-31-2011 05:33 PM

No, the grain comes to the mill in a different form. We have to know the reduction in volume that occurs during the milling.

footfootfoot 12-31-2011 05:37 PM

Very sneaky Bruce.

footfootfoot 01-01-2012 03:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Happy Mental Nut Year!

Think carefully on this one.

BigV 01-01-2012 03:22 PM

$110

classicman 01-01-2012 03:58 PM

Unknown ...Which transaction? Or all three combined?
Since we don't know what he paid originally (before he sold for $90)
then we can only assume

Rhianne 01-01-2012 04:17 PM

* horsume

glatt 01-01-2012 08:18 PM

It doesn't make any sense, so I'll say $190. That's probably this book's answer.:p:

monster 01-01-2012 08:29 PM

Depends how much he bought the whore for in the first place

classicman 01-01-2012 08:36 PM

"The hunter walked around the tree"
Was he on horseback? Did he get the horse from this guy?

infinite monkey 01-01-2012 08:37 PM

Of course (a horse a horse) we could wonder about any original price, but I don't think you're supposed to add elements to a story problem. Maybe he got a horse for his birthday...this book isn't the SATs. There's an answer.

Any simple math I do agrees with BigV...110, but then we get into the "too easy" category.

footfootfoot 01-01-2012 09:19 PM

$20. Had $90 at first, $110 last.

He would have $110 if he also still had the horse.

infinite monkey 01-01-2012 10:18 PM

See, I only learned opposite math! :blush:

I'm dumb.

classicman 01-01-2012 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 784424)
$20. Had $90 at first, $110 last.

He would have $110 if he also still had the horse.

But what did he pay for it initially?

And I'm still not done with that circular squirrel yet....

xoxoxoBruce 01-01-2012 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhianne (Post 784357)
* horsume

Heh heh heh

footfootfoot 01-01-2012 10:57 PM

I think he woke up one morning and it was in his barn.

xoxoxoBruce 01-01-2012 10:59 PM

Yeah, yeah, tell it to the Judge.:rolleyes:

classicman 01-01-2012 11:01 PM

:)

The horse or the squirrel?

glatt 01-02-2012 07:38 AM

This was a good idea for a thread.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 10:30 AM

3 Attachment(s)
The next several nuts are just math tricks or as the Brits like to say maths trick,

whatever. I am putting all of them up along with the advertisements and then the nut nut proper. One has to remember things were different in 1921. No calculators for instance.

Lamplighter 01-02-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 784443)
But what did he pay for it initially?

And I'm still not done with that circular squirrel yet....

The tree is only the existential quantifier of your circular squirrel.
Take it out of the equation and the logic is obvious. ;)

classicman 01-02-2012 10:46 AM

I thought so as well, but I thought the answer was no he does not.
Hence the repeated question.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 10:53 AM

Yes. The hunter does not go around the squirrel. They both go around the tree but the squirrel always keeps the tree between himself and the hunter. For the hunter to go around the squirrel it would need to stay in one place on the tree.

classicman 01-02-2012 11:05 AM

Why? If the squirrel is ALWAYS on the tree and the hunter circles the tree ...
This must be a matter of semantics or definitions.

Clodfobble 01-02-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot
Yes. The hunter does not go around the squirrel. They both go around the tree but the squirrel always keeps the tree between himself and the hunter. For the hunter to go around the squirrel it would need to stay in one place on the tree.

Well you know what else? Heisenberg says both are orbiting the tree, and you can't say for certain where either one is in their orbital path at a given time. But you do know that the hunter is in a higher orbital than the squirrel, and the higher orbital plane does encircle the lower orbital plane. The more time that passes, the higher the statistical probability that the hunter has orbited the squirrel. Nyeah.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 784572)
Well you know what else? Heisenberg says both are orbiting the tree, and you can't say for certain where either one is in their orbital path at a given time. But you do know that the hunter is in a higher orbital than the squirrel, and the higher orbital plane does encircle the lower orbital plane. The more time that passes, the higher the statistical probability that the hunter has orbited the squirrel. Nyeah.

NO, you have to re-read the question. There is no treadmill involved. They are moving at the same rate around the same axis. The squirrel will never be encircled by the hunter. The spot where the squirrel had been will be encircled, but not the squirrel itself.
Quote:

Consider a bicycle wheel for example. The hole in the rim for the valve stem is opposite the seam of the rim. The wheel revolves around the axle. The valve stem and seam each go around the axle every revolution. They do not go around each other. They do go around the position the other previously occupied however. Compare this to a ratchet wrench. The socket is the axis, the handle goes around the axis, but the handle does not go around itself.
The squirrel always keeps the tree between himself and the hunter. The tree is the axis, the squirrel is the seam on the rim and the hunter is the valve stem.

No, the hunter does not walk around his gun. His gun is not stationary, it moves with him. He may walk around the location his gun used to be, but that is not the same as walking around his gun. Unless he has one of those special mag-lev guns that just hangs in mid air while you circumambulate around it. Otherwise, if it is a normal gun then he will be taking it with him when he walks around the tree.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 12:07 PM

And another thing, you all avoided
How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the tough chapters involving quantum mechanics!

HungLikeJesus 01-02-2012 12:21 PM

Cipher - I like that. Isn't that what Jethro Bodine used to say?

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 12:29 PM

Yes, but did he affix them? Another cromulent word that is under-used these days.

and can you affix nothing to something?

HungLikeJesus 01-02-2012 12:32 PM

The answer to #33 is yes.

The force on the pulley will be the same with two equal weights (W+W) or with a weight (W) on one side and the second side anchored to the floor.

infinite monkey 01-02-2012 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 784562)
Why? If the squirrel is ALWAYS on the tree and the hunter circles the tree ...
This must be a matter of semantics or definitions.

No, it's geometry.

HungLikeJesus 01-02-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey (Post 784589)
No, it's geometry.

I assume you mean squirlomatree.

infinite monkey 01-02-2012 01:09 PM

Yes. And it's really non-debateable. ;)

classicman 01-02-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey (Post 784589)
No, it's geometry.

If the hunter circles the tree and the squirrel is ON the tree, then the hunter circles the squirrel.

jimhelm 01-02-2012 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 784424)
$20. Had $90 at first, $110 last.

He would have $110 if he also still had the horse.

If he got the horse for free....

selling for 90, he has 90....
buying it for 80, leaves him 10 from his 90
selling for 100 .... he has 110.

what am i missing?

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm (Post 784640)
If he got the horse for free....

selling for 90, he has 90....
buying it for 80, leaves him 10 from his 90
selling for 100 .... he has 110.

what am i missing?

I think this must be a linguistic thing, "how much did he make on the transaction?" I think is meant to mean how much more did he make on the second transaction.

Just be glad this isn't 1921

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 784626)
If the hunter circles the tree and the squirrel is STATIONARY ON the tree, then the hunter circles the squirrel.

The earth does not orbit mercury

Maybe this experiment will help: you will need someone to play the squirrel and you will need a piece of rope.

Premise: If you go around someone or something with a piece of rope (with one end of the rope affixed to the someone or something, the other end in your hand) then when you have made a complete circle they will have one turn of rope wrapped around them. Do you agree?

If you do not encircle them then there will be no rope wrapped around them. Do you agree?

Now, try going around your pretend squirrel with one end of the rope in your hand and the other affixed to the squirrel. If the squirrel is stationary you will encircle the squirrel with the rope.
Now try the same thing only this time, the squirrel always turns in the same direction as you. For added realism you can do this outside around a tree. See how many times you managed to encircle the squirrel with the rope.

Have someone record a video of it and put it up on youtube.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus (Post 784603)
I assume you mean squirlomatree.

No, she means squirrelonatree

jimhelm 01-02-2012 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 784644)
The earth does not orbit mercury

but it does circle it

HungLikeJesus 01-02-2012 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 784645)
No, she means squirrelonatree

Which is a branch of geonatree.

And what about #33?

glatt 01-02-2012 03:06 PM

Foot, would you be willing to scan the Book's answers too?

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 784656)
Foot, would you be willing to scan the Book's answers too?

What, and ruin all the fun?

Oh all right. There aren't many explanations however.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm (Post 784647)
but it does circle it

How about the moon, does the earth circle that?

HungLikeJesus 01-02-2012 03:10 PM

(She moves in circles, and those circles move.)

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus (Post 784650)
Which is a branch of geonatree.

And what about #33?

I know what you mean, can you believe it? Or are you referring to your answer to #33? Or would you like another Rolling Rock?
so, No. Yes. Yes.

footfootfoot 01-02-2012 03:18 PM

2 Attachment(s)
here's 1-21


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