The Cellar - Oooops...

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- - Oooops... (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=28888)

It was 12 Billion, but subtract the preserved $39.4 billion in personal and social insurance tax collections in 2009 and 2010.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adak (Post 885503)

You know how Obama and Co. have said they didn't lose anything saving GM?

Seems the facts now coming out, show that to be a 10 Billion dollar lie:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25309673

I believe Obama did the right thing by saving GM, but he should STOP lying about it, over and over.

<snip>

We'll call that one Adak#3

But to your point about GM...there were two components to the GM bail out:
1) Loans to GM which GM did paid back in full years ago,
2) and then just last Friday the Government sold it's stock in GM" - at a loss of ~$10B

- No "Obama lie" with either one of these components

Stock and bond owners and others did lose $ with the GM bankruptcy
and sale of GM operating assets to a "new GM" financial body.
So did the government, but people like to say: "That's capitalism"

But since you say you "believe Obama did the right thing by saving GM", where's the beef ?

USA Today
24/7 Wall St.
December 9, 2013

Report: GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs

Quote:

Here is an analysis by 24/7 Wall St. of the report on bailout benefits in jobs and taxes:

That bailout involved about $51 billion in taxpayer funds overall -- with $49.5 billion going
into GM directly for what was originally a 60.8% equity stake in the company.
The Treasury Department said late today that it recouped $39 billion from the sale of that stake, for a loss of $10 billion.

In a new report released Monday, the Center for Automotive Research

Quote:

(CAR) reckons that the federal government bailout of General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM)
saved 1.2 million U.S. jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in personal income
and social insurance (Social Security, Medicare) payments.

The bulk of those jobs and tax payments would have been lost in 2009 and 2010
and would have recovered (mostly) by now without federal intervention,
but the U.S. auto industry would look considerably different had both GM and Chrysler been allowed to go under. ...

... Ford Motor Co. (NYSE: F) did not accept any federal bailout funds,
but CEO Alan Mullaly said last year,

Quote:

"If GM and Chrysler would've gone into free-fall,
that could've taken the entire supply base into free-fall also,
and taken the U.S. from a recession into a depression.
That is why we testified on the behalf of our competitors even though
we clearly did not need precious taxpayer money."

Chrysler received $1.9 billion in federal funds before being taken over by Italy's Fiat SpA.

What U.S. taxpayers avoided, according to CAR, was the loss of about $105.3 billion
in transfer payments plus the loss of personal and social insurance tax collections
to the tune of 768% of the net investment of $11.8 billion in GM
and $1.9 billion (none recovered) in Chrysler.
Including jobs related to the auto industry, the federal bailout preserved 2.6 million jobs'
in the U.S. economy in 2009 alone and $284.4 billion in personal income in 2009 and 2010.

<snip>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adak (Post 885503)

Adak #2
~~On Benghazi:~~

I was duped as well as CBS and the reporter. I guess Davies wanted to be a "big shot" for awhile, and made up the story quite well.

Unfortunately, we STILL can't speak to the actual survivors of the attack at the Consulate in Benghazi, by Obama's decree!

What a sorry state for getting the truth out - which would make Obama look like a stupid ass, of course. That's WHY we have the shut up decree in place. If his popularity dropped any lower, we'd have to use negative numbers - and mid-term elections are coming up in 2014.

I bet you can't prove this, mr "getting the truth out".

Of course, you ALREADY believe the President looks like a stupid ass, so, whatever you find will only reinforce your already made up and closed mind. Your posts are simple and boring.

How's this for 'in your face' jurisprudence...

Business Insider
Brett LoGiurato
Dec. 20, 2013

Judge Completely Trolls Justice Scalia In Striking Down Utah's Gay Marriage Ban

Quote:

When U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia handed down a scathing dissent
in United States v. Windsor
— the case in which the high court deemed the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional —
he warned of the domino effect it would have on state bans on gay marriage.

Scalia warned that the Supreme Court's reasoning that struck down the Defense of Marriage Act
— which denied federal benefits to same-sex couples —
could be used to strike down state laws banning same-sex marriage.

Scalia, who's notoriously anti-gay marriage, was saying this was a bad thing. In an interesting twist,
Utah's Judge Shelby quoted Scalia's negative prophecy in his pro-gay marriage opinion.

Shelby then wrote that he "agreed" with that part of Scalia's opinion, and offered his response.
Though Scalia meant it as some kind of dire warning,
Shelby cited the Supreme Court's decision as a reason to overturn Utah's law:

Quote:

The court agrees with Justice Scalia’s interpretation of Windsor
and finds that the important federalism concerns at issue here are nevertheless insufficient to save
a state-law prohibition that denies the Plaintiffs their rights to due process and equal protection under the law.

Shelby also cited Scalia's dissent in 2003's Lawrence v. Texas, the landmark case
in which the Supreme Court ruled that laws banning sodomy were unconstitutional:

Quote:

The court therefore agrees with the portion of Justice Scalia’s dissenting opinion
in Lawrence in which Justice Scalia stated that the Court’s reasoning logically extends
to protect an individual’s right to marry a person of the same sex.

Washington Post
Andrea Peterson
December 20,2013

This FBI agent had a boneheaded plan to copyright a secret interrogation manual

Quote:

<snip>The author of a sensitive FBI interrogation manual submitted the document for copyright protection
-- in the process, making it available to anyone with a card for the Library of Congress to read.<snip>

First is that the American Civil Liberties Union fought a legal battle with the FBI over access to documents just like this
… But the copy they released to the ACLU was heavily redacted --
unlike the 70-plus page version of the manual Baumann reviewed at the Library of Congress.
<snip> For instance, the full version includes a sentence that says
the manual is intended for the FBI's "clean" teams
-- the investigators charged with collecting information for use in federal prosecutions.
"That raises the question of whether teams collecting information that's not for use in federal courts
would have to follow the manual's (already permissive) guidelines at all," says Baumann.

And second, the manual almost certainly shouldn't even qualify for a copyright because it is a government work.
Anything "prepared by an officer or employee of the United States government
as part of that person's official duties" is not subject to copyright in the United States.
And yet, according to Baumann, the author of the manual deposited a version
of the interrogation manual dated 2008 with the U.S. Copyright Office in 2010.

I feel like I've read this story before.

Quote:

I feel like I've read this story before.

Griff, what a great reference !

... In the Penal Colony -> "The Colony" -> GitMo

This end of video is not quite accurate, but so what...

Scientists abandon highly publicized claim about cosmic find
Sacramento Bee = MALCOLM RITTER - 01/30/2015

Quote:

Scientists who made headlines last March by announcing that they hadd found
long-sought evidence about the early universe are now abandoning that claim.
New data show that their cosmic observations no longer back up that conclusion, they say.

The original announcement caused a sensation because it appeared to show evidence that
the universe ballooned rapidly a split-second after its birth, in what scientist call cosmic inflation.
That idea had been widely believed, but researchers had hoped to bolster it
by finding a particular trait in light left over from the very early universe.

This article doesn’t say so, but what seems to be the situation is that
“dust” in this particular region of the universe (sky) gives off infrared radiation
at 7 distinct wavelengths. These astronomers (the Biceps group) were collecting data
at only 1 of these 7 wavelengths. They did not have access to the data for the other 6.

The initial results were publicly challenged by the astronomers who first described the 7 wavelengths.
When these astronomers eventually shared all of their data, both groups came to this
agreement that the Biceps data is due to cosmic dust.

Oh well, so they will now start playing nicely with one another
and working together to gather additional data. :hug:

Unfortunately this reporter could only get an abbreviated telephone interview with Brian Keating of the University of California, San Diego, a member of the BICEP2 team. He and the rest of the team are busy moving their offices and equipment to the brand new Koch Brothers Science Research campus. :noevil:

The KB's are as contagious as the measles...

Scooter is going to cut funding to the UW system by 300 million dollars. Now he tells the Professors to teach more classes and work harder to make up the short fall. What a boob.

PDX's "finest" were particiipating in "Take Your Child To Word" Day.
But the Morrison Bridge decided to impose a pound of embarrassment.

:o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae (Post 926818)

Word up.

Yes, that's another Oooops on my part :o