The Cellar - $27 million anti-evolution museum to open soon

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore (Post 328892)

You're a college student, aren't ya? ;)

How did you guess....

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Capitalism is the devil? Please, tell me what is better (that still rewards those who work harder, smarter and inventors... and I mean not stealing from those who save, work harder/more and smarter or those who buy land).

Leaving out the fact that evil is relative, just because something works doesn't mean it isn't evil. Capitalism encourages just about every evil we see right now and it brings out the worst in people. Do you think there would be a war in Iraq if it wasn't for capitalism? Do you think there would be massive immigration to America if it wasn't for capitalism?

Capitalism works, no one should deny that, but to think that capitalism doesn't create evil is just as foolish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 (Post 329235)

How did you guess....

That youthful optimism...capitalism evil...damn The Man! :D

Capitalism is supposed to pit competing evils against each other to promote good. i.e., the consumer picks the lesser of the available evils.

It doesn't always work.

It worked until the self-centered me,myself&I's came along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 (Post 329235)

How did you guess....

Leaving out the fact that evil is relative, just because something works doesn't mean it isn't evil. Capitalism encourages just about every evil we see right now and it brings out the worst in people. Do you think there would be a war in Iraq if it wasn't for capitalism? Do you think there would be massive immigration to America if it wasn't for capitalism?

Capitalism works, no one should deny that, but to think that capitalism doesn't create evil is just as foolish.

I don't believe in evil.
The middle east would be and will be a theocracy and at war without capitalism and the west, it is their hobby.
Capitalism is not relevant to war in the east, we are just playing in their sandbox (no pun intended, but pleased with it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 329353)

It worked until the self-centered me,myself&I's came along.

To whom are you referring? The robber barons?

Self-centeredness and selfishness shouldn't be a problem in a capitalist society (as far as the capitalism goes, other aspects of the society will suffer). What breaks capitalism is the concentration of wealth and power in small groups, eliminating the competition that is supposed to keep them honestish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage (Post 328146)

& the seventeen states in which it is illegal for an atheist to hold public office?
How do you speculate that away?

You've said that a lot.

Citation of the actual statutes of the states involved, please.

I'm pretty sure that such laws have already been declared unconstitutional, and whatever states still have them do so out of laziness and/or pigheadedness.

Just like there are benevolent dictatorships, there should be benevolent capitalism. Unbridled capitalism gets toxic waste in your water and hot and cold running sewage from your faucet, among other evils. A successful capitalism would increase the middle class and reduce the wealth gap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf (Post 329685)

You've said that a lot.

Citation of the actual statutes of the states involved, please.

Here, I will hold your hand...

Quote:

ALABAMA

We, the people of the State of Alabama, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution and form of government for the State of Alabama

ALASKA

We the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land, in order to secure and transmit to succeeding generations our heritage of political, civil, and religious liberty within the Union of States, do ordain and establish this constitution for the State of Alaska.

ARIZONA

We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.

ARKANSAS

We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government, for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to our selves and posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

CALIFORNIA

We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this Constitution.

COLORADO

We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, in order to form a more independent and perfect government; establish justice; insure tranquillity; provide for the common defense; promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the "State of Colorado".

CONNECTICUT

The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government; do, in order more effectually to define, secure, and perpetuate the liberties, rights and privileges which they have derived from their ancestors; hereby, after a careful consideration and revision, ordain and establish the following constitution and form of civil government.

DELAWARE

Through Divine goodness, all men have by nature the rights of worshiping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences, of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring and protecting reputation and property, and in general of obtaining objects suitable to their condition, without injury by one to another; and as these rights are essential to their welfare, for due exercise thereof, power is inherent in them; and therefore all just authority in the institutions of political society is derived from the people, and established with their consent, to advance their happiness; and they may for this end, as circumstances require, from time to time, alter their Constitution of government.

FLORIDA

We, the people of the State of Florida, being grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, in order to secure its benefits, perfect our government, insure domestic tranquility, maintain public order, and guarantee equal civil and political rights to all, do ordain and establish this constitution.

GEORGIA

To perpetuate the principles of free government, insure justice to all, preserve peace, promote the interest and happiness of the citizen and of the family, and transmit to posterity the enjoyment of liberty, we the people of Georgia, relying upon the protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

HAWAII

We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance, and mindful of our Hawaiian heritage and uniqueness as an island State, dedicate our efforts to fulfill the philosophy decreed by the Hawaii State motto, "Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono."

(The translation of the motto is “The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness.”)

IDAHO

We, the people of the state of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare do establish this Constitution.

ILLINOIS

We, the People of the State of Illinois - grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He has permitted us to enjoy and seeking His blessing upon our endeavors - in order to provide for the health, safety and welfare of the people; maintain a representative and orderly government; eliminate poverty and inequality; assure legal, social and economic justice; provide opportunity for the fullest development of the individual; insure domestic tranquility; provide for the common defense; and secure the blessings of freedom and liberty to ourselves and our posterity - do ordain and establish this Constitution for the State of Illinois.

INDIANA

TO THE END, that justice be established, public order maintained, and liberty perpetuated; WE, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to ALMIGHTY GOD for the free exercise of the right to choose our own form of government, do ordain this Constitution.

IOWA

WE THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF IOWA, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of those blessings, do ordain and establish a free and independent government, by the name of the State of Iowa, the boundaries whereof shall be as follows:

KANSAS

We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges, in order to insure the full enjoyment of our rights as American citizens, do ordain and establish this constitution of the state of Kansas, with the following boundaries, to wit: Beginning at a point on the western boundary of the state of Missouri, where the thirty-seventh parallel of north latitude crosses the same; thence running west on said parallel to the twenty-fifth meridian of longitude west from Washington; thence north on said meridian to the fortieth parallel of north latitude; thence east on said parallel to the western boundary of the state of Missouri; thence south with the western boundary of said state to the place of beginning.

KENTUCKY

We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy, and invoking the continuance of these blessings, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

LOUISIANA

We, the people of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political, economic, and religious liberties we enjoy, and desiring to protect individual rights to life, liberty, and property; afford opportunity for the fullest development of the individual; assure equality of rights; promote the health, safety, education, and welfare of the people; maintain a representative and orderly government; ensure domestic tranquility; provide for the common defense; and secure the blessings of freedom and justice to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution.

MAINE

We the people of Maine, in order to establish justice, insure tranquility, provide for our mutual defense, promote our common welfare, and secure to ourselves and our posterity the blessings of liberty, acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity, so favorable to the design; and, imploring God's aid and direction in its accomplishment, do agree to form ourselves into a free and independent State, by the style and title of the State of Maine and do ordain and establish the following Constitution for the government of the same.

MARYLAND

We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty, and taking into our serious consideration the best means of establishing a good Constitution in this State for the sure foundation and more permanent security thereof, declare:

MASSACHUSETTES

We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

MICHIGAN

We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, and earnestly desiring to secure these blessings undiminished to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution.

MINNESOTA

We, the people of the state of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution

MISSISSIPPI

We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking his blessing on our work, do ordain and establish this constitution.

MISSOURI

We the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness, do establish this constitution for the better government of the state.

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MONTANA

We the people of Montana grateful to God for the quiet beauty of our state, the grandeur of our mountains, the vastness of our rolling plains, and desiring to improve the quality of life, equality of opportunity and to secure the blessings of liberty for this and future generations do ordain and establish this constitution.

NEBRASKA

We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, do ordain and establish the following declaration of rights and frame of government, as the Constitution of the State of Nebraska.

NEVADA

We the people of the State of Nevada Grateful to Almighty God for our freedom in order to secure its blessings, insure domestic tranquility, and form a more perfect Government, do establish this Constitution.

NEW HAMPSHIRE

(Article V of their Bill of Rights:)

Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, and reason; and no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his pers on, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession, sentiments, or persuasion; provided he doth not disturb the public peace or disturb others in their religious worship.

NEW JERSEY

We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and transmit the same unimpaired to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

NEW MEXICO

We, the people of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty, in order to secure the advantages of a state government, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

NEW YORK

We The People of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our Freedom, in order to secure its blessings, DO ESTABLISH THIS CONSTITUTION.

NORTH CAROLINA

We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.

NORTH DAKOTA

We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain and establish this constitution.

OHIO

We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare, do establish this Constitution.

OKLAHOMA

Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessing of liberty; to secure just and rightful government; to promote our mutual welfare and happiness, we, the people of the State of Oklahoma, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

OREGON

(Article I, Section 2 of their Bill of Rights:)

All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

PENNSYLVANIA

WE,the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty,and humbly invoking His guidance,do ordain and establish this Constitution.

RHODE ISLAND

We, the people of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and to transmit the same, unimpaired, to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution of government.

SOUTH CAROLINA

We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the preservation and perpetuation of the same.

SOUTH DAKOTA

We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties, in order to form a more perfect and independent government, establish justice, insure tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and preserve to ourselves and to our posterity the blessings of liberty, do ordain and establish this constitution for the state of South Dakota.

TENNESSEE

(Article I, Section 3:)

That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience; that no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect, or support any place of worship, or to maintain any minister against his consent; that no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience; and that no preference shall ever be given, by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship.

TEXAS

Humbly invoking the blessings of Almighty God, the people of the State of Texas, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

UTAH

Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we, the people of Utah, in order to secure and perpetuate the principles of free government, do ordain and establish this CONSTITUTION

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VERMONT

(Chapter 1, Article 3:)

That all persons have a natural and unalienable right, to worship Almighty God, according to the dictates of their own consciences and understandings, as in their opinion shall be regulated by the word of God; and that no person ought to, or of right can be compelled to attend any religious worship, or erect or support any place of worship, or maintain any minister, contrary to the dictates of conscience, nor can any person be justly deprived or abridged of any civil right as a citizen, on account of religious sentiments, or peculia[r] mode of religious worship; and that no authority can, or ought to be vested in, or assumed by, any power whatever, that shall in any case interfere with, or in any manner control the rights of conscience, in the free exercise of religious worship. Nevertheless, every sect or denomination of christians ought to observe the sabbath or Lord's day, and keep up some sort of religious worship, which to them shall seem most agreeable to the revealed will of God.

VIRGINIA

We, therefore, the people of Virginia, so assembled in convention through our representatives, with gratitude to God, for His past favors, and invoking His blessings upon the result of our deliberations, do ordain and establish the following revised and amended Constitution for the government of the Commonwealth:

WASHINGTON

We, the people of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this constitution.

WEST VIRGINIA

Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of west Virginia, in and through the provisions of this Constitution, reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God and seek diligently to promote, preserve and perpetuate good government in the State of West Virginia for the common welfare, freedom and security of ourselves and our posterity.

WISCONSIN

We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings, form a more perfect government, insure domestic tranquility and promote the general welfare, do establish this Constitution.

WYOMING

We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political and religious liberties, and desiring to secure them to ourselves and perpetuate them to our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

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Outlawing Unbelief
by Tom Flynn

The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 20, Number 1.

It's often forgotten, but seven states of the Union still define atheists, secular humanists, and other freethinkers as second-class citizens. The state constitutions of Arkansas, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas retain historic provisions that ban unbelievers-and in some cases, minority religionists as well-from holding public office, bearing witness in court, or both. The Pennsylvania and Texas constitutions go further yet, declaring their debt to "Almighty God" in their preambles.

Typical language includes Article IX, Sec. 2, of the Tennessee constitution (engagingly titled "No Atheist shall hold a civil office"): "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Article XIX, Sec. 1, of the Arkansas constitution is even more exclusionary: "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."

Article 37 of Maryland's constitution provides that "no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God" (emphasis added).

Article I, Sec. 4, of Pennsylvania's constitution is more insidious: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth." This dual requirement of belief in a deity and in a retributive afterlife could block adherents of numerous lifestances, even some Christians. A liberal Protestant who believes in God but not in a literal afterlife, a Buddhist who believes in karma but not in a deity, or an Orthodox Jew who believes in God and an afterlife but not in reward or punishment after death-all could be barred from public office as readily as any secular humanist if this clause were enforced.

Ten more have language that can be interpreted to exclude unbelievers but are not specific laws. There is not a state that I know of that does not swear in officials without a Bible.

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Originally Posted by rkzenrage (Post 329654)

I don't believe in evil.

I know, good and evil are relative but I was talking about evil in our society's morals and ethical code. To the Western ethical code, capitalism is evil.

Quote:

The middle east would be and will be a theocracy and at war without capitalism and the west, it is their hobby.
Capitalism is not relevant to war in the east, we are just playing in their sandbox (no pun intended, but pleased with it).

Can you please explain further, I am not following?

Except for world order, I can't think of a way that doesn't resort to capitalism or an aftereffect of capitalism.

No... I really think it is OT for this thread and am not up to it today.
Please start a middle-east thread.
There is very little capitalism in the middle-east, though, mostly theocracy.
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