um, ok.
what exactly have i posted here that defines me as a religious extremist? because i state that i am a christian? ok, i hold those beliefs. at no time have i stated that you must conform to my way of thinking or condemned any cellarite who believes differently. how do my christian beliefs make me an extremist? by your standard is Elspode an extremist? we know a bit about what he believes. Wolf? Brianna? any of the others who at one time or another stated something that they believe in? i have stated very clearly that i believe one's religion is a matter of personal faith. i have my faith, you have yours. what about my faith defines me as an extremist?

tw, you want to say that i insult you but you are the one that lashes out in a personal manner. you label people without thought as to what the person says. you put words into my mouth without citing where i have said it. you paint me as a bush sycophant, ignoring the many times that i have come out and stated that i think he is a flawed man who is not the best choice for an american president. but because i did believe he was the better choice between him and kerry, i must be a delusional idiot, right?

i'm done debating the US response to the tsunami's with you because you refuse to look at the wider picture, instead focusing on short term commitments and off the cuff pledges of support, just as you only focus on the first 7 minutes after the planes hit the towers. do you believe that the US will only commit $35million total? or is it possible that we will have some long term commitment to help rebuild? do you think that those who plan and execute relief efforts may see a bigger picture and work within that framework?

let me ask you, tw - have you ever participated in a relief project? have you ever seen, first hand, what happens when you drop US troops in for a humanitarian effort? or do you get all your information from print and video?

i am sure that some mistakes were made and the response could have been better, but that is the nature of everything. it is always possible to do better. i never stated that everything was done perfectly. i only questioned the instantaneous bush bashing without any real alternative action plans. but you are obsessed with $35million. what dollar amount would have been appropriate? what should it have been spent on that first day? how many lives would extra money have saved? the reality is that most of the death happened in minutes. the coming days and weeks are important for the survivors and the relief effort is underway. many lives were lost, many lives will be saved.

not every world event needs to be turned into a political bashing. grow up. or give us another long, recycled "bush bad" "lookout123 stupid" post, i don't really care. :rant:

Where's my peanut, tw?

Wolf - even $350 million completely misses the point. Does curing a symtpom therefore cure the disease?

A mental midget president demonstrates cheap and pathetic leadership when America is lead by Christian extremists. Leader is a misnomer since this president could only follow after properly mocked and condemned by the world. People are dying for 5 days before the mental midget president could even consider any real aid program. George Jr more than anyone else should have known the scope of this disaster - if he read his PDBs. Even Indonesia did not know for days how bad things really were. Again, you saw those satellite photographs. Photos said this is big and bad. The president, at minimum, could have called Indonesia to help them learn how bad things were. This president could not even bother considering aid. Presidential travel costs more than the $15 million that George Jr pledged. That is aid for 150,000 dead and 5 million hungry and homeless? Yes if you are a moral Christian extremist. After all, they are only Buddists and Muslims. Give me a better reason for this Christian extremist's pathetic response.

A reporter from the Christian Science Monitor says everything is wiped out for up to 3 kilometers inland. Nurdin Muhammed and two fellow construction workers walked 100 miles from their construction project in Calang (a larger town of 400 where only about 20 survived) to get home. They saw no living people for 100 miles and just dead bodies everywhere. They could smell the dead bodies whereever they slept. From today's Washington Post If anyone survived, they died long before George Jr ever decided maybe to provide aid. $350 million tells us nothing useful. This is about the mental midget president and his actions as a leader. To ask if $350 million is enough is to insult the integrity of mankind. That $350 million only says the entire world first had to mock and insult both America and this righteous president. The US is so uncaring as to only offer a paltry $350million after international condemnation. We give many time more to Israel - a developed nation - every year. We spend that raindrop in less than 1 week in Iraq. But the Tsunami region is not on George Jr's list of countries to be saved - the axis of evil?

We are talkiing about 'moral' leaders - the type of Christian extremists that Lookout123 represents. Now a mental midget leader is angry that the world would criticize him? He should be publically apologizing for his pathetic response. Instead he is so righteous as to be angry. Classic religious extremist response.

So where is Jeb Bush? Lets see. We must learn more before sending aid? We will send Colin Powell and Jeb Bush. But lets not undermine Jeb's New Year's party. Jeb will not leave for many days. No hurry. Be happy. The US will send the 'expert' Jeb Bush to see what is needed. Those dying people must survive for another week.

The queston is this. How 'moral' are American Christian extremists? Not the $350 million paid in response to international black mail. Notice how even Lookout123 would first criticize the Arab world response before admitting the 'morality' of this president. Christian extremists must be publically vilified before they will even admit a disaster has occured? Oh. Those dead are Buddists and Muslims. Clearly they had no value. Is this erroneous logic? It does explain the George Jr response and Lookout123's defense of the mental midget.

Your openly support the Christian values of a president so 'evil' as to not even bother helping as hundreds of thousands were dying. A truly honest, religious, and humane Lookout123 would have been complaining days ago about America's response. Lookout123 - you post as a religious extremist. You don't up front condemn the president for not doing his job. It again puts you right back in the category of Christian extremist - supporter of a mental midget but god's chosen president.

The facts are blunt and obvious. Only a Christian extremist could deny them. The president had those satellite photographs. He more than anyone else should have known the first day the size of this disaster. As a leader, he should have been leading a world response. And yet he just sat there for 5 days until literally the entire world described him what his is. What was he doing for five days? Praying? An honest Lookout123 would have joined me in criticising the president - who should be aplogizing to the world for his pathetic response. Lookout123 did not and will not. Meanwhile more good people died.

Who is the better religious person. I who stand up for the downtrodden - or Lookout123 who makes decisions based upon his religious extremist political agenda. Yes, Lookout123, Christian extremists who remain quiet - who don't publically condemn this presidential response - should be admitting they are agents of the devil. Instead you defend this president? How Christian extremist of you.

The most important time are first hours and first days. The US response? Next week - days after being requested to do so - Jeb Bush will go learn what they need. They needed it 7 days ago. The president knew that - or should have. We did nothing. Why do you defend such incompetance? One big mistake was made. As massive relief abilities sat waiting to respond, the president did nothing for five days. It took public condemnation to get him off his ass. Where is Lookout123? Defending this unaction. Shame on Lookout123.

What could a good president do? Go to the microphones Sunday to tell report the size of this disaster. You saw the satellite photos he had. It was known from those satellite photos alone that this was big, needed responses in hours, and needed the entire world to respond. Where was American leadership? Sitting on what on his ranch in TX.

The six year old kid was expected to die. Then medical assistance appeared. He is now expected to survive. Did the mental midget president cause this to happen? Of course not. The mental midget president made no effort even to get anyone else to send aid to that six year old. The president stifled the entire American response for 5 days. The president who is suppose to be a leader did not one leadership task to save thousands of lives. He did nothing - and Lookout123 defends him.

One more tw - I am not defending the prez on this - but it turns out there is one person who was even more out of touch on this one... Kofi Annan.

Annan was on skiing holiday in Wyoming and did not return until today and this is why we have been seeing "B-team" Jan Egeland in front of the cameras all this time.

Skiing holiday, is that not indefensible? Can't the holiday wait a month?

So given that Mr Annan's entire job is dealing with international woes, as opposed to Mr Bush whose job is operating only one of them, do you now agree that Mr Annan is incompetent and must go?

Correctly noted. If George Jr has not taken the crown for most incompetent world leader, then I was going to criticize Kofi. However in defenses of Kofi and many other world leaders, the size and scope of this disaster was mostly unknown to most of the world for many days. Indonesia had no idea what had happened to its western most proviences. Whole military camps (ie that Washington Post article) had been completely wiped out. It takes virutally all day to get a plane out there. And yet those with sophisticated satellite imagry and extensive seismic analysis equipment knew very quickly how large this disaster was. It was up to them to sound the alert. And yet George Jr just sat on his ass.

And so the question is what did Kofi know and when did he know it. There is blame to go around. And the UN still does not have anything approaching a fast reaction organization - which is why the UN is so dependent on things like NATO. Those who blindly hate the UN will stifle any effort to get into the UN a fast reaction ability. And yet here is an example for that need. How slow is the UN General Secretary in learning of these events - or did he just delay?

Who's job is it to assess the possibility of another quake/wave wiping out the first responders? :confused:

Incident command's ... even so, it is harder than hell to keep first responders from doing their job.

That contributed to the loss of firefighters on 9/11 ... they kept climbing up, even when it was pretty clear that there wasn't anything for them to do up there, just in case there was.

Even though I'm somewhat familiar with things like incident command, I was always surprised that they set up the command post in the lobby of building. I guess that's something that's common for working a high-rise fire, but it always seemed unusual to me.

My comment. CNN sucks! I just looked at cnn a few minutes ago. DR. Grupa was on the island of Sumarta & all he reports is about Inda. Is it bebause he might be fom there?
In the 70s I worked in Northern Sumarta gas fields. Boy the people there had shit. Now nothing. The former goverments stole enough to make Marcos blush.
Might help if CNN would update their photos every 4 or 5 days :smack: Sorry forgot this was a weekend.
Some people are going to get rich from this! IMHO

i swear tw is actually dr bronner

ok, i'm a little slow, so let me make sure i understand this correctly. anyone who doesn't agree with tw and happens to be a christian, is automatically an extremist? :eyebrow:

ok, hypothetically speaking here. if a cellarite who happened to be an atheist strongly disagreed with you on this issue, would they be classified as a christian extremist? or some other kind of extremist? or would you just grant them the right to disagree with you and let it go at that?



i don't claim to be a religious person and certainly not a better religious person. i have my faith. good luck with yours. again, don't see how that makes me an extremist.

i'm not sure i understand your arguments here tw... unless you are just making ridiculous inflamatory accusations in some strangely insecure quest to display mental superiority. that i do understand. i saw that quite a bit before i left the corporate world.

You hush! He may be crazy, but he makes great soap.

Dilute! Dilute! Dilute! Okay!

You know....for how much TW hates emotion, his posts are certainly filled with it.

It's emotion when your wrong. When your right it's called passion. :D

Lookout123. An honest and Christian man would have immediately condemned the president for sitting on his ass. But a Christian extremist has a political agenda. A mental midget president can do no wrong. He is the 'moral' president. 'Moral' as in let people die because they are Muslim, Buddist, or Hindu. Clearly those people who never received immediate help must have deserved their deaths. Was it god's will that the president stifled the American response for five days?

If Lookout123 was logical, he would have addressed that problem. Instead the mental midget president can do no wrong. The only way one can come to that conclusion is to be a Christian extremist supporter.

Lookout123 - you don't like these facts? Then tell us that George Jr screwed up big time. That people died because he did nothing for five days. You won't, will you.

There is management where the people work for the boss. Then there is management where the boss works for the people. The first is called a dictatorship. Only the boss knows when the roof is leaking. This is the George Jr administration. The second is when the roof gets fixed because the boss has empowered the little people to solve problems.

America had the world's most powerful force of little people in the Tsunami region ready to deploy within days. But instead we have management of the first kind. Thousands had to die while the boss decided for five days that a disaster had occurred. America had to be publically humilated before George Jr would make a decision. Classic example of management - and mismanagement.