Not at all. This was a long time stirring and little spats across multiple threads. Was bound to happen sooner or later.
You, collectively, had zero to do with it,

You could, however, post some nekkedness real quick and distract everyone.
I believe that was Merc.
But I agree with your assessment of what this thread is about.
See above - Its been a long time coming.
Interesting statement Ibby. I know I'm not your favorite or anything, but I respect you saying that - A lot.

Fuck you Gravdigr. Ibram has as much right as anyone to make his point. And frankly, on this issue he probably has more right, having been a victim of homophobia on this site himself in the past.

Just want to make one point though Ibby: personally, I didn't see it as 'accusing' that anonymous poster of being a man. I saw it as genuine curiosity about someone with an ambiguous look. Speaking as someone who is regularly mistaken for a bloke (yes, even one time when dressed to the nines in a mini-skirt dress, high heels and newly blonded flick hairstyle, back when I was in my early 20s) I don't think that it really means anything that someone is not instantly identifiable when much of what might identify them is not in the picture.

Nor does being ambiguous make someone unattractive. I myself wasn't sure of the gender of that poster. But I'd stand by my comments at the time that male or female they looked beautiful. Actually, at the time I thought it was you. Because you are a good example of someone who is going to be beautiful when they dress feminine and handsome when they dress masculine.

@ Gravedigr. Seriously, you are coming across as a total chauvenist pig right now. I am appalled at the tirade you just launched at Monster. Not because it was a tirade, but because of the nature of insults you chose to use.

And the comment about missing the man on man action was completely out of order. It suggests two things: firstly that you do not want gay dwellars posting their stuff. And secondly, that actually, you come in here expecting tits. This is a DWELLAR nsfw thread. All dwellars. It's not just a place for us ladies to get our norks out for the entertainment of dwellar blokes. Frankly, I am really glad that Sheldon posts stuff like that. Because aside from CapnHowdy there aren't many Dwellar men willing to do their bit (so to speak ;p).

Dwellar NSFW thread = not a fucking reader's wives thread.

I'd like to see that, even if it's SFW. ;)

I think Ibby's giant python would have ripped through those little panties.

Hoping for..... always hoping for....

Actually good point about Ibby's python ;p The last pics (sfw) I saw of him were a few years ago. He was only a lad then. May well have filled out/bulked up a bit since then ;p

There is a pic of me somewhere in here. *smiles* and it definately isn't sfw

Well this thread is getting fun.

Just a thought: if this board, and particularly this thread, is about free expression, then why are people jumping down each other's throats for posting something they don't like? I'm sure grav is *SO* fucking sorry for violating the precious intent of this thread monster, but its a public board so kindly cram it. Or don't. I sure don't give a shit lol. Just don't bitch about him saying something *you* don't like when its a *public* *open* thread. And grav you need to chill. If she's "stirring shit" then you're asking her what size ladle she wants. If you don't like what the cow has to say then just ignore her. There's an idea.

Just out of curiosity, am I allowed to have an opinion? On anything? Can I voice my opinion? Do I have to keep it to myself? Why don't you have to keep your opinions to yourself?

Or is it just everybody else's opinion that has the right to be voiced?

By your own statements, "Everyone is entitled to their opinion." Are they, or aren't they?

Last time I checked, I was one. Even the U.S. Census says so.

You all (the mouthy ones) seem to think it's every opinion but mine that matters, but it's mine you keep bitching about. I think I'm having more impact all the time.

And:

Did I say "Eeew lookit dem queers!"? Never.
Did I say "Damn them faggots on my puter screen!"? Never.
Because contrary to what you all would like to believe, I'm not like that. You continue to hear what you think I'm thinking.

The pictures were never more than the subject of a fleeting comment. Fleeting, until some chick-with-a-stick saw her hot button flash.

BTW, I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) I've only directly referenced the pictures, that you folks think I'm so tore up over, twice. And one of those was the 'Joy' comment.

And I stopped caring what any of you thought of me a while back. You can prolly tell in my posts, if you read any others, instead of seeing what everyone else was bitching about and just chiming in.

I can see you don't care. You're dropping your not caring into every thread.

"It's a public board" doesn't work when you're talking about blatantly homophobic insults towards specific people, Bullitt. A self-policing community does occasionally need to engage in some policing. Did he have the right to say what he said? Of course. But he was also a douchebag when he said it, and deserved to get called out on it. The tantrum afterwards is just par for the course, and doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

Like a turd on a silver salver?

I was ignoring her before she opened her maw this last time. She had to make a comment about Baby. Totally pissed me off. She had no fucking reason to go there. But she wanted to bring in the family and/or loved ones.

No worries though, The New World Order is coming...

Come now...Every thread?

I defy you to find a homophobic comment posted by me. Make sure that comment is directed, and not a reference.

Hyperbole, dear :p

And yet, here you are.

Wow, that's a big word. What's it mean?

Serious question, or sarcasm?

Sarcasm, dear. JFC.

I defy you to find the part where I was talking about you. It was only a reference.

Don't know what JFC means. And really don't consider hyperbole a 'big word'.

Reminds me of arguments I had when younger and someone wuold say "what you swallowed a dictionary?!" after I had used a perfectly reasonable word.

Oh. I guess I was confused. It must've been the other homophobic racist we're talking about...

But, see, I know what that big word means. This little JFC means Jesus Fucking Christ.:yelsick:

Then why did you call it a big word? That's what i am getting at. You said that as if you thought I was using the word thinking it a 'big' or impressive word. When actually...it's just an appropriate word to describe what I was doing *confused*

But again, that would rest on the assumption that you thought I was using the word in an attempt to use what i considered an impressive word. When it's just a word.

And just for clarity: the reason I checked with you first rather than just responding to it as assumed sarcasm, is that i have no idea what your vocabulary includes as standard. As an ex-literacy tutor I am very careful with stuff like that.

Ex? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

HA!

*smiles* oh come on. It's not like I grammar nazi all over the place.


I just never get the whole ' ooooo big word' sarcy comment. I use a word that seems perfectly reasonable, normal and in common currency, and someone responds with that.

This is true.

And now for something completely different ...
 

I wonder if we could get UT to email Cellar.org links to nudists' websites inviting them to safari here while pointing out that we have a NSFW thread in which they could even post some family pictures. Our being a tolerant community could result in synergy.

Yeah. He's the one standing right next to the other long-term Dwellar that you--er, he was derisive to regarding his NSFW picture. No one in particular.

For the record, I don't think you're racist. Just a wee bit homophobic. And I think you could probably get past it with a small reminder now and then, exactly like Merc a few posts before you. Notice he didn't get all big-red-fonty over it.

Jesus Fried Chicken.

FFS Sheldon - this is all your fault. If you would quit finding twinks with Daddy issues none of this offensive shit would be happening. It's all your gay dick's fault.

Aren't you embarrassed and ashamed of yourself? :rolleyes:

And nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before
And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

attempted levity. Sorry everyone.

Well Tulip, I'm sorry for being "pushy" with you. I guess I was testy because I thought you had chased anonymoo away and you weren't posting any of your own. I was just taking shit out on you (wrongfully so). I respect your choice not to post here. Many can't because of the social situation or are afraid of rejection. I know this was the case after I posted on here and it left me feeling awkward or inadequete afterwards.

Ibram, I respect what you say. I still think the photos in question were female and I found them very attractive.

Sheldon, I admit your pics aren't my cup of tea but I've never said anything negative about them. In fact I applaud your ability to put it all out there!

Pretty good read. I'm contemplating the underwear shots......

Well, I for one definitely appreciated your pics Sarge. I'm pretty sure sg dd too lol. I like the fact this thread comes in so many different flavours.

(eta) do it capn!

OK I finally got here after a day of having a life and wading through all the shitloads of your posts about ME all over the board!
(beest assures me I've missed a few, but I'll get there....)

IT REALLY IS ALL ABOUT ME!


I have lolled at many a post, but this one startled the cat. :lol:

1) Dwellars want to see it. The rest of us don't care about short/fat/ugly -we care about character. Oh and ouch my feelings on the walrus comment ;) At least I did it :p:
2) Sucks how stuff comes back to haunt you, huh?

..you couldn't give a fuck what I think? Hmmm.... :lol:

grow up, pothead.

hear, hear!

Who said my dick was gay? lol!!

And there is no offensive shit. They all douche before I fuck them. ;)

Don't drag me into your Goddam BS over any of this shit.:mad2:

Now someone change the tone of this whole thing and post some nuddie pics! :blush:

I fell in a puddle and got some muddy on my nuddie. ;)

HAHAHa, I knew I could count on you to be one of the very few people not looking for a reason to be offended Shel.

Let's change the tone of this thread. Here I am again. For reference, my mother has the tattoo on her booty & my stepdaughter has the tats on her back. Please don't hate & I swear to God I am a female

you certainly are.



...and you've been bad, I see.

I didn't even realized you were upset with me. I thought you just really wanted to see a sexy picture from a lady. :p: I don't recall seeing your picture in the dnsfw thread, perhaps I wasn't around then. I'm sorry that it had made you felt bad though. Had I been around, and vocal like these days, I would've given you a compliment. ;) :D I promise I won't chase away anymore members who post in here, well, at least not intentionally. :angel:

:lol2:

Christ on a bike, what i wouldn't give to have an arse like that!

OK. I wouldn't say anything but you're talking about the community I love. So here's the deal.

Five different people speculated it was you.

You posted nothing. Repeatedly.

Anonymous posted in response that "what happened to this place? it used to be so supportive and nice and kind. now it's just... mean."

Now in the first post you post since all this speculation, you are unhappy that the image had male/female speculators, but once again fail to mention the Ibby/not Ibby speculators; and your conclusion is, like Anonymous, that the Cellar is no longer supportive and nice and kind.

See, if it was you, and please! surely it was, then for you to say "I'm appalled you think it was a man!!" is either game-playing of the highest order, or a delusional take on self, gender, and the real world.

More than anything, what is needed everywhere is complete honesty and yes, an acceptance of others' values. But start with yourself, not everybody else, because that's easier.

No, it wasn't me. I don't have any panties that make my ass look that good. I was actually mostly just flattered that people thought i could pass that well, even if they were busy saying that "i" wasn't passing. I didn't reply sooner because I haven't been BACK to the cellar since this went down. But - and maybe i'm hypersensitive, compared to all you old farts, or maybe my pinko commie hippy school is to blame - as an LGBT youth, i find the tone and tenor of the way this forum treats gender and trans*, genderfluid, non-binary, and otherwise queer folks to be utterly offensive. Speculating on someone's sex, when they clearly identify as female, is, yes, offensive. Inherently and inevitably. I have been struggling with my own gender identity lately, and i'm increasingly sure i'm at least not a cis male, and i know for sure, if i were to post a picture of myself as a female, the MOST offensive and hurtful thing for all the initial responses to be would be "no thats a man." The problem isn't necessarily ill-will - it's much more likely sheer ignorance. I should go find some queer, trans*-friendly info to post for you. Someone's gender identity is not yours or anyone else's to police. If a male-bodied person identifies as a woman, to treat them otherwise, or even to speculate out loud, is INHERENTLY offensive. Joking in thread after thread about women actually being men is INHERENTLY offensive. I'm not appalled that anyone thought the anonymous poster was a man. I'm appalled that people thought it was their business to decide for the person in question what their gender was or seemed.


Trans* erasure, binarism, and transphobia are offensive and bigoted, not just to me but to the entire LGBT community.



and Dana: Thank you for saying "you are a good example of someone who is going to be beautiful when they dress feminine and handsome when they dress masculine." I keep myself up some nights wishing i could pass better, wishing i could look like the anonymous poster, struggling with my lumpy, ugly, butch man-body, but hearing things like that helps. Thank you.

Maybe we should have a single "Dwellars' Coming of Age Angst" forum for stuff like this. This thread is for the bits and pieces... Let's get back on track.

Bear in mind Ibby, there is also probably an element of not wanting to be 'tricked' by someone. That is to say, someone posting themselves as one thing, and then having got the response for that, outing themselves as the other with a big guffaw at those who were fooled. Less about what the other person is identifying themselves as so much as not wanting to be the butt of someone's deliberate fooling.

Not suggesting for one moment that that was what was happening, but just as posting pics of oneself is putting it out there...so is responding with arousal. I imagine a lot of people would feel slightly edgy about expressing desire if they even half suspected that said desire was then going to be flung back at them as the basis for jokes and/or insults. Our bodies are very personal, but so are our desires, and therefore both are likely to be wrapped up with certain sensitivities.

Just as we should respect and understand other people's own reading of their sexuality and gender identity, we should also spare a little understanding for the knotty issues around sexual desire and how problematic public expressions of those can be for some people.

And the last thing I think of when I think of you is 'butch'. You are a wonderfully elegant looking lad. Personally I have always rather liked androgynous looks. Maybe because I tend that way myself. I like it in gals and guys.

Funnily enough I thought about you whilst i was watching Christopher and his Kind on tv the other week. There was a description of 'boys' as being very beautiful. Put me in mind of you.

welcome to exactly what i mean. standing up against offensive, bigoted posting is dismissed as coming of age angst. welcome to the new face of the cellar.

That's not the new face of the cellar. The cellar has and always will be (I hope) made up of many faces.

Also, the LGBT territory is a strange and unusual one for most people. Treading in it at all can be dicey. Comments not intended to be offensive can easily become so. The 'rules' shift and are rarely consistent. I recently had a conversation with a very good friend of mine about the use of the term 'transgender', which she hates, but which is in common currency. Different people find different things offensive. That goes for whatever sexual identity. I would posit that the Cellar's response to Brian's recent announcement of his new identity as Pamela is just as typical.

At least Ibram isn't something horrid like a grammar Nazi, he's just an LBGT Nazi (petite Nazi) and not the first one to pass through here. Let him post wherever an audience has gathered over relevant matters, his message has good intentions behind it.

I agree with DanaC having had transgendered people that worked for me at one time these particular 'men turned ladies' enjoyed outing themselves. While that may not be your feelings or the other anonymous posters on this thread's feelings, I don't think that most meant any of their comments as malicious. Just curiosity...

Ibram is just like anyone else, he can post whatever he wants. He's looking for ways to be offended. That's just the nature of the very young and he is particularly sensitive as he is dealing with his issues. My point was simply that the NSFW picture thread might not be the best place for it. That certainly doesn't mean he can't continue to post anything he wants, but it generally doesn't fit with the theme of the thread as we've seen it over the years.

Just to reiterate as well, regarding the less understanding comments:

They probably had less to do with views of that person's gender identity so much as our own fears of being made to look the fool. Of being the one who didn't spot the trick. Of being the one who thought they knew what was going on only to then discover they didn't. This is a public message board: if one is made a fool of here, it is potentially a public humiliation.

As I said: posting pics of oneself is putting it out there; but expressing desire is also something that puts one out there and makes one vulnerable.

Well stated. Thanks Dana.

You fellas better hurry up and make some more comments about anonymoo or 'they're' going to be offended. lol