It really doesn't matter as long as people feel free or have other self-obligations that rate higher than freedom.

Besides, your definition of freedom is going to be different from someone else's.

I'm pretty sure getting locked up indefinitely without access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime goes against most people's definition of "freedom". So is being spied on by our own government. Having our property stolen by the government. Being murdered by our government, etc.

But hey, they only murdered my neighbor, not me...so I'm still free right?

The thing you have to remember is that in ideal Radar-land, there are no income taxes and no social services--no public education, hospitals are free to deny even emergency care to anyone who can't pay... if you completely took away all things of that nature, most of the complaints about illegal immigrants would also disappear.

But then we'd be living in ideal Radar-land, rather than reality.

Okay Radar you win basic training certainly trumps 30 years of living, school then working in a city

There's a place that was exactly as you described. It was the most free and prosperous nation on earth. It wasn't called "Radar-land", it was the United States of America. Back then we had better schools, a healthcare system nearly everyone could afford where doctors would come to your home, the poor and elderly had MORE help than they do now, and it was provided by those who genuinely cared about them, etc.

I go there often. I live less than 2 hours away and go to the outlet stores down there, and to Mexico or San Diego a lot. It's BEAUTIFUL down there RIGHT NOW. The standard of living there is FANTASTIC.

...and people ran around shooting all the indigenous people and stealing their land. Black people were slaves. Women weren't allowed to vote...etc etc etc...

Were they doing those things in 1920? 1930? 1940? 1950? 1960? 1970?

Most of the unconstitutional social programs, the department of education, etc. have been created since those times. In fact other than women's suffrage, you could go back to 1865 so you're looking at 100 years where nobody was a slave, where we had a government that pretty closely stuck to the Constitution (other than 1913), where we had unprecedented prosperity, made friendships with all nations, etc.

I love how people stupidly dismiss all of the great things America had back then because of 1 or 2 bad things that had more to do with the culture of the time globally than had to do with something wrong with America.

These are the same idiots who say, "The founders were rich white slave owners who didn't want women to vote...blah blah blah" as though that discounts any of the true freedom they fought for.

The point is that this utopia you're talking about was just as far from perfect as the utopia others think they live in now.

If that's your point, you have no point. Nobody said the world is perfect. I never said we lived in utopia. I don't believe utopia is possible. At one time, our government stayed out of our personal lives and it was a more secure, happier, and better time than it is now.

The valid role and scope of government does not include providing health care, education, charity, food, shelter, clothing, retirement, etc. for people.

Well you'd better get working on that time machine and blast yourself back there.

If you could make it snappy that'd be pleasant for the rest of us.

Radar, do you think there might be a reason why we have changed from the ways of the past?

Looking at modern hunter-gatherer populations, we have found that the murder rate is much lower than in modern society. Since we all used to be hunter-gatherers and since then we have adopted a police force that is seen as corrupt, it only makes sense that we get rid of the police force and see the murder rate decrease.

Or, there might be other variables that are leading to the problem, not the solution to those variables...

Or better yet, I can help take the country back now, and get rid of all the unconstitutional parts of government....either peacefully....or by other means.

I can't wait for this movie to come out in theaters. Bruckheimer is doing this one, right?

Assuming that many innocent people will die in your revolution, how are you squaring that with the whole initiation of force issue?