"the doctors" won't be willing to give on-going care to someone who has no ability to pay. If you cannot pay, you go to the ER for emergent care. the ER cannot and willnot cover everything. If you are nuts, thanks to Kennedy, you can go to your community center. If you have CA and have no ability to pay but you do not fall into the medicaid-poor population, you sell your house, your car, your whatever. Ok. Let's say there are some docs out there who are compassionate enough to give you treatment. I guess they can write you off on taxes, or refer you to some over-burdened, understaffed, underfunded agency who might take you in (but you'd better be good at being your own advocate) or just hound you with bill collectors until you wish you'd just died instead. :yeldead:

Yeah, their receptionists wants co-pay up front.

What's health care worth?

I mean, how much do you think a doctor's appointment is worth? I have a $20 co-pay on my health insurance; when I didn't have health insurance, it was $110. $110 for 10 minutes with a doctor that seemed to have no time for me.

Rhoda probably cost the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the Federal Government $500K during her time there...her first time in the hospital in 2001 was $97K. God only knows what she racked up after she moved back to Maryland.

I'm not sure where I'm going here...I'm just wondering what all this health care and technology and what not is truly worth in the end.

Along those lines...I was in the ER several times in '04...I believe every trip was to Frankford-Torresdale Hospital in Philadelphia. During one of my trips there, someone from the billing office came in before I left to advise me that I had a $35 co-pay and wanted me to pay it right then and there. Not that I didn't have the money to pay it, but it was just off-putting how they came in while I was essentially still being treated to remind me that I fucking owed them $35!

You forgot about the pharmaceutical companies who exits only for profit. I wonder if they are behind the push for national health care? I mean, if everyone could afford to go get prescriptions for all the latest patented drugs they'd be making even more money than they are now! I mean, food and shelter are much higher on the hierarchy of needs than health care, why wouldn't we make sure everyone gets those for free first unless there's a hidden agenda?

Dana I've actually experienced health care at: a private clinic (completely elective and paid for out of pocket), a private hospital in a wealthy area (with good insurance), and nationally known inner-city hospital where they treat lots of people on medicaid (with good insurance). Guess where the care was the best. Guess where I would never go again because it was so awful.

When I was young and didn't have kids I also didn't have health insurance. I "couldn't afford" it. Well, technically, I couldn't afford health ins and all the other stuff that I wanted a lot more. Health care wasn't a priority of mine back then. It worked out fine for me, and when I got an entry level office job I got really good insurance as a benefit. Lots of other people that I know personally who either got sick or got pregnant when they were uninsured went on medicaid and are also doing just fine.

my mom was always a nervous wreck when i was working construction with no health insurance. i didnt get it until i got my furniture store job. i still hardly ever use it for myself. but....now that i have a family to provide for, it makes all kinds of sense.....expensive as it is. and it is really really expensive.

I had a similar experience the other day. I was in a restaurant and the waiter came to the table and wanted me to pay for the food I'd eaten, right then and there. What nerve!

If we know that healthcare as a business is screwing people over in the pursuit of the bottom line, and if we know that healthcare as a government office would be a nightmarish clusterfuck, then what about a third option: keep healthcare as a business, but regulate the greed out of it the same way we've regulated other business to provide a baseline of humane treatment, IE not selling us rotten meat, food with poisonous ingredients, cars without seatbelts, or airplanes that aren't inspected for safety before taking off?

Is this the right place to post this? I was thinking about this in the shower this morning...

With all due respect, HLJ, that's hardly the same thing. You choose to go to a restaurant, or not. If you need health care, there isn't much choice involved (except for the fact that poor people tend to not seek out routine health care or even put off seeking care when they think they may be ill due to the cost. This factor actually supports the universal health care idea.)

Shawnee, you're getting all serious. Please don't pay attention to anything I say about doctors. I've only been about 3 times in my life. (But people are always saying, "You should really have that looked at!")

:lol:

I should know your sense of humor better, eh?

But, please, yes...have that thing looked at. I think it's gotten bigger and greener.

Bigger is good.

Greener is not good.

Ummmm, no, bigger is not good in this case. You seem to have delusions as to what I'm speaking of. :blush:

Oh, is Obama a Muslim? Funny, he sometimes dresses
like one, according to a Clinton press release picture to Drudge Report.. More incompetency from the Clinton campaign, as it showed Obama dressing like an Kenyan/Somali, and wearing the suit well. Bet we won't catch Hillary Clinton wearing a kimono, no matter how many times she visited China and Japan. More of this silly season.

I don't know.. imho with the socialized healthcare, I think it sounds good on top but once it comes down to it a lot of folks won't like it. You are still paying for healthcare - it's not free. It's just coming out of your paycheck in the form of higher taxes... and not only will you be paying for your own healthcare, but you will be paying the healthcare of everyone not paying taxes. Folks not paying taxes are really the only ones getting free healthcare.

I'd like to see how they are going to work it out and how much folks will be taxed. And how they will work around the problems that other countries with socialized healthcare have.. such as being on a waiting list for important surgeries that we can get immediately here. Lots of people travel here to the US to get surgeries because of how poor the universal healthcare in their country is.