Given that everybody is so glum, what with the stockmarkets going into freefall an'all... I am injecting a little cheer into this mix:

Chin up everybody, some people have it worse:

... I could not be more excited. To me, opportunities abound like we have not seen for almost a decade. The market was so boring for so long with so few opportunities. Remember what generals were doing as the Battle of the Bulge started. Eisenhower had to turn on them. Remind them that this Battle was one of the greatest opportunities they had to end the war. This market meltdown is a rare and exciting opportunity even for those who may lose an average amount - maybe 20%. Exciting if one chooses to make it so.

Dana I'm not discussing the merits of the different social programs, or the justifications for using them - I'm responding to the tone of your post. The defeated-before-you-begin attitude. This specifically;

I'm just saying that these are the same sentiments as those expressed by generations of US welfare recipients. It's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of socialism... it seems to suck the initiative out of people. Just getting by becomes more attractive than trying harder and possibly facing setbacks...

"The lesson is, never try" - Homer Simpson

No. It's realism and pragmatism. I was not in stable employment. Years of working in sales jobs, then a family business that went under, then unemployed whilst going through a minor breakdown, then doing voluntary work and then into adult ed. I loved my job teaching literacy, but I didn't feel like it was in any way secure. A lass who started working there about 4 months before I did, signed up to a mortgage, got herself a tiny little one bedroomed terraced house (£100k). She, like me, earned less than 15K a year and was starting with no deposit. She was a sub-prime mortgage. None of the main sellers would take her on because of the rule of thumb on percentage of income.

The same people were saying to her, that she should try and get onto the housing ladder, that were saying to me I should get on the housing ladder. Houses are big, fucking expensive things. How in God's name does someone earning £13,500 a year think they are going to buy a house that costs £100,000?

Less than six months after moving into her house she got made redundant. She was scrabbling around desperately trying to make mortgage payments while the industry she'd been working in (in various firms) collapsed around her. It's since picked up again, and she may well be back in her usual line of work. But I do wonder if she managed to keep hold of the house.

If I make it to my eventual goal of history lecturer, I'll probably look at getting a very modest property, but until I am able to earn at a level that justifies that kind of investment/debt, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot bargepole.

So basically she bit off more than she could chew and got in over her head buying a house bigger than she could ever afford. And somehow this all comes back to being "someone elses fault". And there in lies the problem with the generations which think they are owed something by the government.

No. It was her fault. But there were pressing reasons. She had just escaped an abusive relationship and I think was seeking some sort of security. But she was also swayed by the generl consensus around that adults shold own houses. I cannot tell you how many people have advised me to try and get a house. I have never earned enough, or been in a stable enough job to buy a house. I could have got a subprime mortgage. I'm very glad I didn't.

And as for choosing a house that was too expensive: that's the housing market round here. It was a tiny terraced house, she wasn't buying something greater than hr needs. It was significantly smaller than the one she was renting.

I got a better job about 6 months ago. Not a better job a great job with good money. That said...

It did take me two years to nail it. It was about 'who I knew' before I could talk about 'What I knew', I still get other state gov.job interview offers but I could never nail them. I would need to take classes to be competetive in other sectors. At my workplace we closed down a building to save money. Overtime is at risk. The buildings are old. The property is valuable and there are so many other reasons the D.O.E. wants to relocate it. If I ever get laid off I can lateral transfer into another position even if it means bumping someone. That means someone could bump me too.

There is good and bad. I feel secure but not TOO secure. I am driving a beater car so I can eventually save all my expendable cash in the event of a future emergeny.

On the back of my check stub there was information about employees contributing to a 457. I am torn about saving extra for myself, and not knowing if my investment would be at risk. Maybe it would be riskier not to, personally and by not making the government coffers richer. ?? Does not contributing make the state poorer? ( mostly just thinking out loud )

my boss asked me if I had any money in my 401k. (You'd think he'd know). But yeah, I lost a bunch, along with everyone else.

doom, doom, doom!

My experience is that if you are not with in 5 or better yet 10 years of retirement you can't go wrong putting money away for retirement. You may want to consider an IRA or a Roth IRA. There are some people on here that are much better at giving you this advice. I just know what has worked for me recently. Look up "dollar cost averaging", it works if you hang through the ups and downs.

You only lose if you pull it out at a loss. If you sit on it, it should come back up when the market recovers.

That's what my brother says, and I have to agree. He told my parents "you've only lost if you pull your money out now."

The problems with the house buying thing, in my eyes, is so many people don't WANT a modest home that's liveable, and comfortable, and safe. They want the McMansion and the people going "damn that is some nice house you got there."

I see that all the time around here, everyone wanting to live in a subdivision (is that what you call them? not sure) where all the McMansions sit next to all the other McMansions that all look vaguely the same. I find that boring.

There are so many beautiful old homes with character. Granted, an older home will cost money in other ways, but why do so many people (sheep) want to be like all the others, keep up with the Joneses, show your friends how well you've done (even if you're drowning in debt?)

My dream is to save up, get some land, slowly build a log home. Not a big one, just a sweet cozy little home for me. It may take a long time...but it's my goal.

Around here, the "old houses with character" are the ones closer to downtown, and thus they cost more than twice as much.

Ahhh, it is location location location, huh?

That makes sense: in this smaller town no one needs to live closer to anywhere. Across town is like 15 minutes, and many people commute out of town anyway!

Well, this one sucks. Take a stable company with a national brand that has been built up since 1936. Enter the 1990's and have the company be sold to two food companies, one of which imploded due to internal accounting fraud. Have it end up in the hands of an equity fund. Cue meltdown of equity markets.

Why do I feel that if the company had just maintained it's focus and sold cookies and not been treated as a financial poker chip, that everyone would still have a job? I also would like to know how they can duck the 60 day notice requirement if the parent company, Catterton, is still in business.

Read the blog at the bottom of the article where the current and previous employees are posting. Some of them make me want to cry and others make me so ****ing mad.

BTW, Michigan is/was a battleground state. Small towns like these were a Republican bastion which would offset the urban areas.

First question for the candidates - "How can the company violate federal law?"

And this differs from just picking up your Corprate HQ and transfering the whole thing lock-stock-and-barrel to Dubai how.

You should fully expect such action in the near future when NoBama is elected.