The Cellar - It depends on what the meaning of "name" is...

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- - It depends on what the meaning of "name" is... (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=8703)

chek chek chek

testing 1 2 3

is this thread on?

uh... not since about a year ago...

Hitchens put the whole thing together Tuesday, in Slate:

Quote:

As most of us have long suspected, the man who told Novak about Valerie Plame was Richard Armitage, Colin Powell's deputy at the State Department and, with his boss, an assiduous underminer of the president's war policy. (His and Powell's—and George Tenet's—fingerprints are all over Bob Woodward's "insider" accounts of post-9/11 policy planning, which helps clear up another nonmystery: Woodward's revelation several months ago that he had known all along about the Wilson-Plame connection and considered it to be no big deal.)

WaPo piece followed Friday, "End of an Affair":

Quote:

We're reluctant to return to the subject of former CIA employee Valerie Plame because of our oft-stated belief that far too much attention and debate in Washington has been devoted to her story and that of her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, over the past three years. But all those who have opined on this affair ought to take note of the not-so-surprising disclosure that the primary source of the newspaper column in which Ms. Plame's cover as an agent was purportedly blown in 2003 was former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage.

Mr. Armitage was one of the Bush administration officials who supported the invasion of Iraq only reluctantly. He was a political rival of the White House and Pentagon officials who championed the war and whom Mr. Wilson accused of twisting intelligence about Iraq and then plotting to destroy him.

Ya got that? The Plame "outer" is anti-Iraq war.

And it concludes:

Quote:

Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously.

Fred Barnes in righty Weekly Standard lists a Hall of Shame

I was right this time, as I am 50% of the time, and I am bending over backwards to pat myself on the back for it.

Congratulations. Batting .500 is also a fantastic average.

That shows if you read, research, cross check, ask the right questions, wade through the rhetoric and bullcrap, dedicate the time, trouble and resources to the quest...... you too can be as accurate as flipping a coin.

OK, I'm a smartass, but there has to be more to it. Personal satisfaction, dare I say even fun, like a hobby. One that's a hell of a lot cheaper and safer than most hobbies, too. I mean you still get only one vote at the polls unless you count people you influence or sway to your beliefs, your truth.

The question is why do we even bother? Why not wait till it all comes out in the wash? Or will it not come out in the wash, if we the people don't demand it? I suppose they wouldn't bother with all the lies, spin and pure bullshit if people didn't care..... if people didn't question.

I guess distracted or even dumb people don't really want to be sheeple. Even if they appear to be clueless or claim not to care about politics or international affairs, they don't want to be lied to, betrayed by the people they voted for.

The fact that I'm rambling, thinking on the keyboard, proves i don't have the answer. Sorry, carry on. :redface:

No, you've brought that up before and I agree. It's very much like a hobby to me. I could spend my time doing more productive things.

A lot of news stories are soap operas, and others are mystery stories, that play out in real time. But it holds my interest like a soap opera or mystery story.

I hate it when a perfectly good conspiracy theory dies. Now let's see how serious people are about retracting. Daniel Schorr on NPR's Weekend Edition dedicated a segment to it.

[quote=Undertoad Ya got that? The Plame "outer" is anti-Iraq war.[/QUOTE] One can only say that if a political agenda justifies the spin - lying by telling half truths. Armitage is a founding member of Project for New American Century. Does that sound like someone anti-Iraq war? He was Sec of State Powell's assistant and good friend. He was not anti-war as UT so intentionally misrepresents. Armitage was not a 'gun slinger' - somebody who would routinely and publicly lie to disparage others. UT, you knew that. Why then did you post that misrepresetation of Armitage – as only a ‘gun slinger’ would do?

I didn't remember Armitage was PNAC, that does change things. I wonder why Schorr gave him a pass?

Quote:

Mr. Armitage was one of the Bush administration officials who supported the invasion of Iraq only reluctantly. He was a political rival of the White House and Pentagon officials who championed the war and whom Mr. Wilson accused of twisting intelligence about Iraq and then plotting to destroy him.

This is the WaPo point, I quoted it once, I can quote it again until you read it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The United States Senate confirmed him as Deputy Secretary of State on March 23, 2001; he was sworn in on March 26 of the same year. A close associate of Secretary of State Colin Powell, Armitage was regarded, along with Powell, as a moderate within the presidential administration of George W. Bush. Armitage tendered his resignation on November 16, 2004, the day after Powell announced his resignation as Secretary of State. Armitage left the post on February 22, 2005, when Robert Zoellick succeeded the office.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Nothing is more productive than doing something you enjoy.:thumb:

Enjoying it, being entertained by the way it unfolds, is a legitimate reason to do it. What I'm asking is, are there any other reasons to do it?
Are there any benefits to staying on top of the real time news?
I suppose stock analysts/brokers/speculators would do well to be informed, maybe? Anyone else?

One winter I saw my neighbor breaking up an ice dam that formed in front of our sewer grate. I thought, damn, I can hardly be bothered to shovel my walk. He's always the first guy to do his, and I'm usually the last to do mine. But it's not enough for him to do his; once his is done, he starts doing the street.

And what's the point? In a few days there will be a warm period and that ice dam will be taken care of by itself. And if not we can call the local township and they will salt it until it's fixed.

If I asked him, I know he'd say he enjoys doing it, and would rather get some exercise and get away from the wife by chipping up some ice.

No reason to do it, except for a miniscule civic benefit. Two things we need in our society: A) clear streets and B) informed citizens. Well, fuck if I'm going out in that cold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

...I was right this time, as I am 50% of the time, and I am bending over backwards to pat myself on the back for it.

So, your saying Karl Rove only gave away her first name (50%)?:rolleyes: