Drinking, Know I Shouldn't...
 

Any posts after this (timewise) I am drunk.
I know I am supposed to be on the wagon.
I'm being honest in saying that I slipped off.

I told people they could say what they wanted if I did, and I have, so do.

Of course, I'm feeling pretty much okay-dokay.
And it all seems quite funny.

But I've had to revise the above about six times.

Sorry to the people who have supported me. I'll feel like a shit tomorrow. But right now, I'm coasting and I feel great and bless you all!

You will be fine. It takes time. Don't beat yourself up.

Exactly.

It's a process, sweetie, not an event.

This is true.

And another damn thing...you are loved. :)

I hope you had one for me mate.

Meh. It happens lass. I just hope you thoroughly enjoyed it whilst you were doing it :)

good mornin', Sundae! Now, a tylenol, loads of water, a shower, put your jammies back on and watch funny movies all day! try to enjoy thr hangover groove!

*think positive* :)

So how'd it turn out?

me too
 

On the wagon that is, not drinking now.
I really would enjoy a refreshing hopped malty beverage right about now. and later. and before.
Hell, I just want to get drunk on some good local beer. Three Floyds' "Gumball Head" is on tap at the BW3 in Avon...

In a way, being ill all this week has been very good for me.
I am always more tempted to drink when my parents are away, but what with sleeping approx 14 hours a day and puking the rest, I can honestly say the temptation wasn't even there this time.

Just as well, because I was too ill to go to my Relapse Prevention...

I'm glad that being ill has its benefits, SG :yelsick:!

Here I am again.
Feels good right now but will feel shite tomorrow.

Am faced with trashy TV as can't read anything new, or really read anything.
But am here because some vestige of myself remains and would rather talk or read than watch.

Already feel grim emotionally. Sure tomorrow I'll be grim physically.

But I know it's Friday
Grandad is Day Care, the 'rents are housesitting, bro is at work and sis is on half-term, away, but wouldn't bat an eyelid it I'd drunk a litre of bleach.

What I mean is I'm drunk but okay.
I just shouldn't be drunk.
And I will get my Halloween costume tomorrow when Grandad is out.
And all that and everything.

Just being random.

sorry to hear that.

hey!

it's Thursday!

How very dare you encourage me!

Sigh.
There's a term in common useage here, "The walk of shame" meaning the walk back home in the clothes you went out in the morning after a one night stand.

I don't think there's an equivalent internet term for having to come online and check last nights posts. I think maybe Facing the Music will do. And I have done, and it's not bad thank goodness. But bloody hell, I realise this morning that I have my own thread for when I've got drunk. Bloody hell. That's pretty bad. I'm equally ashamed about the drunkenness and the attention whoring.

But there is a tiny part of me that is impressed I managed to find it each time. Sorry.

I'll drink to that.

It's also time to reflect on the circumstances that led you to that place again. What is the trigger and how can we help you to help yourself avoid it in the future.

Let's all fly over there real quick-like, kick SG's ass for beating herself up, then fly right back.

SG...every step you learn. No shame allowed.

Catch 22. I hate myself, so I drink.
If I drink, I hate myself.

Plus side - it's nowhere near as regular as it was.
And I admit when it happens.
But Classic's right. And I don't often say that ;)

I was s'posed to go into Relapse Prevention next week.
Guess I'm back to the start.

Identifying Triggers:
Breathing?

Its a start. As one who has already walked this path, I know you need to take whatever you can and build upon it.

haggis
and hugs, SG

Cheers.

Do they have AA where you are, SG.? If so, you might want to look into it. You know about doing the same thing and expecting different results. Yes, its insanity. I got on the wagon last May and except for a couple of slips I have stayed sober since then. Best of luck to you.

AA(UK) = AAA(USA) ...different type of wagon :lol:

It does exist over there but is very unBritish. Mind you, SG's very cosmopolitan :)

I've been to three AA (AAA) meetings. Hated them, hated them, hated them. One for each time I went. May have been four. Hated that too.

Just not me, sorry.
Everyone talks about God, and how God saved them, and protected them, and led them to a final denouement. I know the official line is that you don't have to believe in God, but you DO have to believe in a higher power. I tried making that evolution, but when you're listening to a bunch of people talk about the guy with the big white beard ("sometimes they confuse me Santa Claus") and you're thinking of Darwin, it's hard to take it seriously.

I've never read a POV from a successful atheist AAer.
Maybe we're all godless and hopeless.
If there was a similar godless organisation I genuinely would give it a try.
Huh. Smokers don't have this problem! They get patches!

Well, S,G., if you hated, hated, hated it so much for that thought. I'm neither an atheist nor a Bible thumper. When people talk about Santa-God, this turns me off, too. I just find it helpful to spend some time with people who are dealing with the same problem as I am. Hope you come across something that works for you.

I disagree. I don't think it's bad, at all. You are doing you best to monitor your behaviour, and to have it monitored by a group you trust. We're not going to tell you to believe in a higher power that'll help you through this, but we are your AA group. You tell us how hard you find it, and of your lapses, and we love you and support you and try to help you keep your decision, or return to it.

And secretly, I'm impressed that you can find this thread every time, too!

LMAO. Well, laughed out loud and even applauded. Really.

Sundae ... maybe the Cellar is your higher power. We comfort you in distress, praise your achievements, chastise you when you slip, but forgive you and encourage further effort. And UT has a beard. What more can you ask for?

Be good, and love yourself, 'cause we said so.

This may seem like a rude question, from a relative outsider, but...

What do you get, from consuming alcohol? Physically, emotionally, spiritually.

(I simply added "spiritually," as I hate lists comprising of no more than "two" items... and I don't mean it in a religious way, rather, a self-reflecting way.)

High?

I have never liked support groups either and never have participated and joined them. I refuse to sit around and talk about how hard something is.

To me there is something of a loss of personal power and perhaps that is what you feel? I think there is much to be said being responsible for one's own self and using the brains and will power we were born with.

I always find truth in watching nature. Weeds always come up through the cracks in the pavement. When a tree falls another always grows to replace it. Flowers grow up toward the sky and baby birds without ever being told (?- lol) how will propel themselves from the nest in an attempt to fly. The natural world points to the fact that its energies are geared toward improvement. Even if you believe in Darwin's theory you can see that animals evolve to a better form eventually. Inside you is that very same energy that strives to be better and you will find the tools to accomplish what your heart desires. It just takes time. You just have to want it over and over again until those times in between drinking become greater and greater. You'll keep fighting to progress because it is in natures design that you do. I believe anyone who doesn't just makes a choice not to.

ps. To be fair I do believe in god. Not in the typical way but in the way I described. I've been agnostic. I've been a church goer. Now I am nothing but someone who still finds nature so incredible I have to concede in a higher power but on my own terms. Stop thinking about the bearded men think about the god given power in you. The part of you that makes you a beautiful person.

I agree with this so much. I think it is at the heart of the matter.

Kick shame's butt. Kill it. Kill the shame.

A slip is a slip. That's all. It's the bigger picture that counts. The bigger picture is that you drink less often than you did. From a health perspective that's great. From a self improvement perspective it's definite progress. Rather than focus on the times you do reach for a few beers, focus on the many times that you don't, where once you would have. You don't have to be tee-total to be less dependant on alcohol than you were. It isn't an all or nothing game.

Sky's right (not about the God stuff ...sorry Sky, all that 'God-given' talk just makes me shudder:P) kick shame's butt. It is useless to you. Doesn't help you even a tiny bit. Don;t give it house room. Shame and guilt and remorse are all pointless excursions into emotional self-harm. From time to time you get pissed; some aspects of which are fun ad other aspects of which are upsetting. Chalk each time up to the night before and leave it there where it belongs. Try and enjoy it when you do it (why waste it?) knowing each time that it'll probably be a long time before you do it again. Try to make it a long time in between. You don't have to be perfect to be better. Don't use it as an excuse to beat yourself up.

We love you. You should love you too :)

Dana is right, SG. You are moving forward, your recon missions into enemy BoozeLand are few and far between. You are making progress and that is all even the most disciplined of us can do - so chin decidedly UP, girl.

Why do we drink? The reasons are as many as stars in the Skyy Vodka - and it's not the Why it's the What Happens that matters anyway.

:comfort: Sundae.

You're all far too good to me.
Thanks - I do learn something every time, except I never realised there could be so many sneaky rules to learn. English grammar is a snap compared to working myself out.

And when I come here and people are generous and kind, disapproving and exasperated, supportive and reasonable all in different ways, it reminds me that it's worth the effort.

The "why" is far more important, than the "what happened."

Physically - You gain weight, you destroy your liver, and various other parts of your body.

Emotionally - You become depressed (it is, after all, a depressive,) withdrawn, dependant.

Spiritually - You feel a great deal of shame, regret, and remorse.

So much for a "break from the torments of life."

Addiction is simply another term for being unable to find a "suitable vice." A term we label people who do something, these days, that we consider "socially unacceptable." Basically - It's a cop out. "I'm addicted, I can't help it." That's not true, anyone can help it.

I mean, look at the OP. She feels shamed for drinking less than most people would eat chocolate, or junk food... That's nothing to be ashamed of, but, she feels it, because she's, at some point or another, been labelled "addicted" to the alcohol. Isn't that a tad unfair? There's nothing to be ashamed of, for drinking LESS than a large portion of this country, Sundae. Ignore the label, forget it, completely.

Without the "label" of "alcoholic," of "addicted..." What would a random nobody think, of you drinking for one night, or two, of a seven day week? Even if you did it, every week? Nothing. How would you feel, about the same? Not a care.

Remove the label, and you'll find that you're already better.

Then you just need to replace it for physical reasons, because the emotional, and spiritual reasons, should never've been there, to start with...

I've read around, that you're on a diet, I believe? You've made tremendous progress, too. In that, I applaud you. So, if you've only got to deal with alcohol, in terms of a diet... I'm sure you're more than well-equipped to do so. Replace one vice, with a more physically acceptable substitute. Diet it away.

Couldn't be simpler. Drop the label, you don't deserve it. Diet the alcohol away, you deserve to be healthy.

But, who am I to say? I'm nobody.

Here here. Excellent post TDC!

But the why is part of the problem.
I drink to escape. That's weak and disgusting and only makes me feel worse because I know it exacerbates all my problems, tangible, emotional or physical (depression, low self esteem, self doubt, obesity, lack of money, living with parents).

To an extent, yes this is all in my head.
But if only I could get my head sorted out, the rest would be so easy.

I don't actually label myself.
I say I have a prblem with drinking. And I do. And that I'm pretty confident about. Bloody hell I wish I hadn't.
But the larger problem is with myself.
Coming here reminds me I have less of a problem than I did a year, two years ago. Back then I thought I lived in Quick Fix Land. I now realise it's a long trek. Very rewarding, and you meet amazing people along the way, but occasionally just boring and repetitive. Specially when you have to cover the same ground three, four, five times.

Better stop posting before I try to continue the analogy. I'm hardly John Bunyan.

Two steps forward, one step back. But you are heading in the right direction SG.

In AA they say the why isn't important - you can examine your bellybutton all you want the fact of the matter is that - no matter WHY (and if you're an alcoholic you'll find as many reasons to drink as grains of sand on the beach) - it's what happens once you put that drink into your body that matters. The craving, the inability to quit...all that nasty addiction stuff. If I DON"T put a drink in my body, I DON"T trigger the addiction. If I DO put a drink in me - all bets are off. that is what I meant, oh guru of the davincichode.

ya know what? fuck it. You're already so much smarter than me. Just pretend it's a diet. that'll work.

Brianna is right. There is only one reason for drinking that matters to an alcoholic. We drink because of the addiction. DaVinciChode means well, but for most people it is important to admit that they have a problem. If you refuse to accept that you have a problem, you will never take steps to solve it.

As long as I thought I could somehow squirm out of labeling myself alcoholic, I continued to drink. By the end I was leading a very miserable life.

By admitting to my alcoholism, I was able to get help and to sober up.

My heart goes out to you, S.G. I know full well how miserable picking up that drink can feel. I hope with all my heart that you find the help you need to lead a sober and serene life.

Sundae has admitted she has a problem, and has progressed to such a place where she no longer does... she drinks less, on average, than the average citizen of England, or, I'll wager, most places in the world. She has beaten her alcoholism, and no longer deserves the guilt associated with it.

So, we remove the label, as it has been beaten, and look at what's left, without the guilt of "falling from grace," when, in all fairness, you've fallen nowhere.

(If you are able to control the fall, and it doesn't lead straight back to the addiction, you should feel no guilt. Every time you drink, but don't take it too far, you've beaten your addiction, you're "normal." As such, you should feel no guilt, no shame... it's undeserved, and very unfairly placed.)

What's left? The "why," and the physical issues associated with a harmful substance.

Seems no different than eating too much unhealthy food, now, does it? :) Hence "diet."

Sundae will have to tell us (if she wants) if she considers herself alcoholic. More enlightened people view alcoholism as a disease. It should be considered as no more shameful than having diabetes.

Personally, I will consider myself alcoholic until the day that I die. Alcohol will always be out there waiting for me to start up again. I wouldn't call a slip or relapse "falling from grace." A slip is just a slip. You climb back on the horse and try again.

I agree that a real alcoholic cannot control the fall - at least not for very long. Guilt is a very counter-productive emotion. An addict is someone who has lost the ability to drink normally. Anyone who can return to social drinking was not an alcoholic in the first place.

For someone who is merely a heavy drinker, the why might be important. The reason an alcoholic drinks is because s/he is addicted to alcohol.

Yes, I can see the point of your diet analogy. Interesting thought.

The agnostics and atheists miss out ...
 

Why drink?

When we drink, we get drunk.
When we get drunk, we fall asleep.
When we're asleep, we commit no sin.
When we commit no sin, we go to heaven.
So, let’s all get drunk and go to heaven!

I think there's a difference between having a problem with alcohol and being an 'alcoholic'. I think Sundae had/has a problem with alcohol, in that it is her chosen escape and therefore when all she wanted was escape and quick solutions she turned to it far too often. I don't believe (though she can correct me if I am wrong) that she was a full-blown 'addict'. She was/is addicted to escape, rather than the actual substance of alcohol. At least that's my reading of the situation.

All interesting points of view.
Dana probably has it most closely aligned with how I feel.
Dana has been out drinking with me.

I don't have a normal relationship with alcohol.
I will drink until all possible avenues of drinking are closed. Whether this is running out of money, closing time, lack of people to buy me drinks, whatever.

I admit episodes of drinking here.
That does not mean I confess what time I started, what time I finish, why I finished.
I don't lie, but I won't necessarily lay out the full story.
I don't see any reason to - I am ashamed, I have succumbed, I know it's not normal.

Given a limitless supply of alcohol and no supervision for a week it's possible I would drink myself to death. The only thing preventing me would be a determination not to. This is not a normal relationship with alcohol.

Recently, with the change in my medication, I've experienced side effects re my appetite. I was talking to Mum about it. She asked, "Are you just more hungry?" The best analogy I could come up with was that when I open my wardrobe, I am aware there are clothes in there. If I need to get dressed I will make a choice. Now, when I open the fridge all I can see is all the yummy food I want to eat. I want this, and that, and the other and the whole lot! It's not hunger, but it's certainly not an impassive appraisal. I've got it (mostly) under control, but have asked for another change of meds.

So it is with alcohol. If I have the ways and means (and I can be very sly to ensure I do) I am tempted. Not all the time. And when I'm in a good stretch, hardly at all. I get the thought, I squish it. But once I've had a drink, hooo-eee! Opportunity, I take it. Money lying around, I spend it. £3? 5 cans. If I walk to the shop on Cambridge Street. After 21.00? S'okay, I can go to the roundabout at the bottom of the road - further and costs more, but if I have money it's okay. I will find money, I will spend money, I will drink until it's gone.

That is a bad thing.
I am trying to get on top of it.
I think I am succeeding. I am, mostly.

Still trying to work out if discussing it helps though.
Admitting how low I am hurts.

I should probably add that I also am an 'escape addict'. Alcohol is only my chosen escape if my preferred escape option (pot) is unavailable; however I am totally addicted to the act of consumption. Pot, alcohol, cigarettes, food. I am unable to relax if I am not engaged in some form of consumption. If I am awake, then I am consuming. The only reason i am not obese is that I inherited my father's ridiculously fast metabolism. I am, however, far from 'healthy' and much of what i do is bad for me.

I am also addicted to other means of escape: mostly this is in the form of tv shows and books. But again, like everything else I do I take it to extremes. Whatever my current obsession is, be it Doctor Who or House MD, or BSG or whatever...I live and breathe that for days, weeks, months. I do this to the point that it becomes self-destructive: I feel guilt at not doing the things I should be doing (work, study, housework etc) and sink further into my obsession, often losing entire days to it, or even entire weeks. Thereby increasing my level of guilt and consequently increasing my need to escape: vicious cycle.

Like Sundae, once I start I am unable to stop. I will feed that obsession with whatever money is available to me. I have been known to buy books/audio plays/videos with the last of the money in my bank when I have no clue what I'll be eating for the next week. If I sit down at 6pm to watch an episode of House (my most recent obsession) it would not be unusual to find me still sitting there at 2am having gorged myself on 10 episodes in a row.

I am a dysfunctional obsessive. That's just how I am. From time to time that is a problem. Mostly I get by ok. The only reason I am able to live in my own house rather than at my mum's is because houses are cheap to rent in the north. The only reason said house is not actually falling down around my ears is that from time to time mum rescues me from my own incompetance/lack of effort/depression induced squalor.

I say this, because I want you (Sundae) to realise that actually most of us are dysfunctional in our own ways. Changing that dysfunction is fucking hard to do. Wanting to change it is also hard. I admire the progress you've made, precisely because its stomps all over the distinct lack of progress I have made :P I don't think you have even the first clue how much I admire you.

I also don't think you realise how much I and others like you. You have an absolutely sparkling personality. You are really good fun to be with. If you liked yourself even half as much as others like you, you'd be insufferable :P

Hear hear!

Dana is right. If my problem is alcohol, all I have to do is quit drinking. Easy fix. If I'm an alcoholic, then quitting drinking will have no real effect, except in many cases, such as me, to aggravate the situation, and in the end will become the only solution. Understanding the solution of alcohol to be bad, also has no real effect on stopping drinking for an alcoholic.

SamIam, it seems to me that your perspective is one of a person who reacts differently when drinking then an alcoholic, therefore recommending drinking in moderation as a fix. I really can't fault you on that, how could I expect you to understand, not having had the experience?

SG, I truly hope that you find a solution that is equitable for you. I understand that you are unable, or unwilling at this time to accept what AA has to offer in this arena. I understand, completely, accepting a spiritual basis for living when having no belief what so ever in a spiritual life is to say the least....difficult if not impossible. Again, having had the experience myself, I understand. As for me, some things had to change. Know that today my thoughts and prayers are with you.

I believe the term you're looking for is something like "compulsive personality" . . .
You are not alone - welcome to my world.

Hence the term "1 is too many."

But that's not what he's saying, at least that's not what I'm reading. I think he's saying drinking once or twice a week moves her from alcoholic, to someone that indulges in risky behavior occasionally. So instead of beating herself up constantly, she can work on reducing, with the goal of elimination, that risky behavior, for her health.

Why do people repeat doing things they know damned well will result in them feeling guilty? Because they're depressed and running out of what they feel are valid reasons to be depressed? Gee, if I do this tonight, I can beat my self up for at least a couple weeks?

So removing that guilt lessens the reward, and makes it a health issue to be tackled like weight loss. I think it's an interesting avenue to explore.

I think SamIam is a chick..... ?
/offtopic aside

Yes, she is.