About Abuse
 

Are you tired of being abused and/or belittled by monster and shawnee/infinite monkey?

No comments necessary. The poll is anonymous.

Lots of us have had enough.

It's time you girls realized how many people don't appreciate your behavior.

ya but, I like open warfare. so in lieu of voting...:rattat:

In all fairness, I think IM has been good, although I don't go looking.

I always picked you for a lover not a fighter sky. lol

Yes, I am a lover. I am a lover of honesty, justice and truth

but at the same time, if insect was crawling up my leg and all I had to get it off was a lighter, I would torch it.

SO....all in all thanks. That was a nice thing to say, ali:blush:

this is, in my opinion, an improper use of the anon log in.

whoever posted this poll is a coward.

I do not need an anon to say what I feel.

and yet you are watching the thread like a hawk, replying to all, and you still only garnered 3 votes from 60 views. You shoulda made the poll not anon. Then I'd've voted for shits and grins. :D

Maybe whoever posted as anon did it that way so that everyone could remain anon about how they voted if they wanted to also.

I personally have had to deal with monster being nasty to me, so I'd so that I don't like it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

so you address it the time, and sort it out, right?

THIS is bullshit

What's the difference between this and the 'self policing' thread?

I do get tired of the Cellar in general sometimes; if only it weren't such a great outlet and a great resource . . .

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...bersisters.htm :lol:

Some of it's alright and some of it is just unnecessary.

If consistency of any kind is important then you can't request that people keep it nice in one thread and then deal out a backhander in your byline to those who try to avoid participating in the fray. Reading the arguments can be fun, but why add to what is already there.

Discussion is fine as is pointing out errors in argument, but if you want people who are less confident of their ability to back up their views to continue posting, then the environment has to be comfortable.

not much, other than lj not posting as anon. You can post an anon poll without using the anon account. But maybe anon didn't know that.

So If I'm found too bitchy for the cellar, am I expected to leave or change my ways? or are you going for the ban? :lol:

I don't know what you'd be expected to do, and I doubt you'd do anything other than what you wanted anyway.

Personally, I just wish you'd ease up. You don't have to post something smart arse just to refute a point, and I don't think you need to be so sarcastic all the time. It's just unpleasant.

It's just that the poster is asking for a certain amount of trust from the voters, that he or she is not giving. He or she wants to know how others feel without putting there feelings out there.
People like to know who they are responding to, especially when it's about a member of this forum.

I know some people fit in all categories. I just don't know who, or care to know who. I do care about the feelings of others and I like to play with sharp sticks.


That said,
It just felt wrong, so I couldn't vote. Plus, like I said, I've said it all enough anyway. No secret there.

the thing that bothers me most is this:

which is saying that there has been some kind of meeting or consensus in which some imaginary group of clan elders has judged you wanting.

i give ali and sky props for actually having bawls enough to state their positions. right or wrong, they are doing it right. anon is not.

okay, look. I don't like to single out individual posters and I have not voted. I don't think it's productive or fair. Some people were saying some things about me the other day which were also not fair. Oh well. I am not anon, btw. Someone noticed and stuck up for me--turns out I have friends here, after all.

If you're gonna be nice, be nice. Otherwise, fuck off. (shrugs)

I didn't realize my position needed stating, thus the lack of a vote. I didn't know there was a posse. I wish people would speak up at the time something bothersome is happening.

This is like sending anonymous hate mail. It just isn't MY style.

I am not anon either.

I posted this thread anonymously because I was afraid of being abused further by the previously mentioned posters.

It wasn't my intention to hide as such. I simply thought it would be better if everyone just voted.

I only want monster to stop hurting people who don't deserve it, and I'd like shawnee to stop joining in (as if monster needs anyone to help her anyway). She just wont let things go. She can't have her say and shut up. She then follows the poster around and makes fun of everything they post till she finds another victim. It's not fair and it's not right.

Sorry to have offended anyone.

No, it isn't right but you should just tell her.

I am confused about who the previous mentioned posters would be?

You mean abuse by not liking the vote with anon, vote with the masked person idea ;)

Look, there is standing with someone or for a principle and then there is wanting others to get their hands dirty, at their expense, for your own gain.

now, I'm going to bed

I think there are a lot of posters here who frequently go too far. The Cellar has a bit of a tradition, at least in the few years i've been here, of being rather... well, bitchy and prickly, but it was a good-natured sort of prickly. I don't wanna name names or give examples, but I think the cellar has its own culture of good-natured prickliness. I know I personally, outside the cellar, have a similar good-naturedly prickly personality. But I think, especially lately, things have often escalated too far, and there are posters here - many of them - who frequently escalate things too far.

but i wouldn't have ever singled monster out as one of them. Or Ali, or Cloud, or Shaw, or Infinite Monkey, or Jim, or, well, a lot of other frequent posters. I'm not really going to weigh in on whether or not it's a valid concern - i've been absent for a long while - and this also isn't the time or the place to single out the dwellars whose behavior concerns me the most. But... aside from concerns i've previously recently raised about my own concerns about what has changed about the cellar recently, I think the culture of the cellar has also gotten... more entrenched. I used to hear a lot of talk about the Cellar as being like a coffee shop, and the attitude towards the community being like, if not a coffee shop, a bar (or group of people at a bar), where the banhammer comes out in cases where, metaphorically, people come in with no concern for the other patrons or the establishment and run amok. but lately, i feel like it's become less like the "coffee shop" metaphor that was, last i checked, the guiding metaphor for the cellar's operation, and more... just, groups of warring factions, taking it all personally. None of the posters I've recently heard being accused the most of this sort of thing are ones i've noticed, myself, going beyond reasonability - EXCEPT in the widespread cases of longstanding vendettas carrying over from thread to thread.

I think a LOT of people here could all stand to cool off, back off, adopt more of an attitude that promotes the "i'm sorry, i didn't mean to offend, i wasn't trying to be personal" mindset that builds the close-knit, "coffee-shop" attitude of, even when there's mutual dislike and distrust and hurt, putting the community first, and trying to avoid conflict instead of trade blows and perpetuate it.


all too often, I find that lately, the attitude is "fuck you, i can post whatever i want, i don't care what you think of it, fuck off if you dont like it, it's a free forum and a free country and it's my right to post whatever I want." I'm not going to say that any of that isn't true. But i think that the right to be an asshole sometimes (or all the time) should not come ahead of the responsibility to the community to be both polite and respectful in a wider sense (if not always on a conversation-by-conversation basis).

Basically, I think a long series of back-and-forths, whoever started it or whoever's to blame or whoever's the most guilty, has set into motion an altogether unhealthy atmosphere for the Cellar to have. I can remember when, for example, rkzenrage was banned, it was because he consistently and unapologetically violated the sort of social contract that the Cellar operated under. I feel like we're losing more and more of that sense of collective agreement and social contract and community. And threads like this only fan the flames.

Very good reference to rkzenrage. Agreed.

You take the monster, you take the monkey
You take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you see
you take them both and there you have
The Cellar strife, the Cellar strife.
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

There's a time you got to go and show
There's a time you got to go and show
You're pollin' now you know about
You're growin' now you know about
The Cellar strife, the Cellar strife
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

When the Cellar never seems
When the world never seems
to be livin' up to your dreams
to be livin' up to your dreams
And suddenly you're finding out
And suddenly you're finding out
the Cellar strife is all about you, you.
the Facts of Life are all about you, you

It takes a lot to get it right
It takes a lot to get 'em right
When your're learning 'bout Cellar strife.
When you're learning the facts of life.
(learning 'bout Cellar strife).
(learning the facts of life)

What more needs to be said?

I think there's a significant difference, aside from the anonymity angle. The self-policing thread was about a number of combatants and the effect their combat was starting to have. This thread is about a single side in a conflict.

Whilst I sympathise with the OP for feeling bullied, I cannot help but think that this thread is no more than an attempt to redirect the Cellar's energies into bullying someone else.


This is a community, but it is also an open forum on the internet. Robust exchanges, and sporadic feuding is the norm. We all lock onto things in the Cellar. When I return to see what's new in the forums I am particularly scanning for threads I have been involved in. If the same is true during a bout of 'feuding' it can seem like stalking. Added to that is the constant temptation in forum communication to go for the laugh and the jugula in equal measure. We all do it sometimes, I suspect. It is more than possible for someone to 'accidentally' bully another in text.

Which is one very good reason for having moderators.

If any dwellar genuinely feels they are being bullied or intimidated by another dwellar, we have moderators who can be contacted. A couple of PMs between 'bullied' and moderator, and then a couple of PMs between moderator and 'bully' should be enough, in most instances to cool things down. Chances are the 'bully' has no idea that some of their words have hit hard.

You are not the first person who has been put off by my sarcastic and often acidic sense of humor. It isn't for everyone.

As to being followed around and poked at ffs I get that a lot from a dwellar who.
, if you paid the slightest attention to the community you so fear for, would see that cycle that is always ignored. That is fine with me because I can fight for myself. This supposed disappointment of yours comes to light because...why? I suspect a hit nerve.

For the record I speak up for monster because she has shown kindnesses to me that I don't always deserve. She chooses to see the bigger picture that is me. It's called friendship.

Posting in chunks because I'm using my phone.

Also, I believe in honest relationships. Pretending to be who someone wants one to be to gain favor is a sad way to live one's life.

There is a small faction who can understand that, and who know a little bit about my heart. Those people keep me coming back. To your chagrin, apparently.

Lastly I find it intricately more trollish, disruptive, and insecure to post this as part of an anonymous colective (not to be confused with the other collective) anonymously portraying some sort of virtual lynch mob. You and your posse should each post your grievances here as youselves. Helpful discussion might ensue. Or I may tell you to go fuck yourselves. :lol:

Then we can dance around the Festivus pole.

Oh, and, if you cut me do I not bleed? You might consider that as you judg from your perch.

I am not a part of any collective. This is about the roman (singular) telling would be gladiators, that he/she has their back.

We know how that went down.

Lastly, I am glad this thread didn't piss you off too much I.M. Aside from the rolling emotions, at times, we all have them. I think underneath, you have really big good heart and a good soul.

rkzenrage was banned by his own request.

I come here to be entertained, and informed. The petty bickering sometimes is just to much. But don't change because of me, sometimes I like it.

I wish to reiterate that I am not Anon/the OP. Not something I would do.

Yeah, Monster picked on me. It's not the first time, or the last. Oh well. Nothing I can do to prevent people from being unpleasant--they have to live with themselves.

I like what Ibram said. The Cellar has a nasty undercurrent and combative spirit which, frankly, I do not get. I do wish the people who come here to be instigators and spectators of strife would evolve past the ape stage.

"Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards."

I'm biased because I like IM and Monster and usually find their posting styles to be smart and funny...in other words, entertaining. Both of them can be acerbic at times, but they usually have a reason for it...and if you don't understand the history, you wont appreciate their responses.

I feel left out more than anything. I never get abused. It really goes to show how much of a clique the cellar has become. I mean who do you have to blow around here to be insulted?

fair enough. retracted, at least in example, if not in spirit.

I'll toss in my 2 cents.

First off, I didn't start this thread.

I've been on the shit end of the stick from monnie, shaw and others. I've been on the other end as well. So what? Anon, either do something, say something or leave. That's the way it is here. No moderator is going to ban someone or do anything here just because a couple people are perceived as mean or nasty or because they pick on someone.

Personally I dislike some posters here. I think that we each have to deal with people we do not like IRL as well. I requested a temporary ban to prevent a situation from escalating - instead of shitting on every thread and turning each of them into a bitch session.

I also like many of the people who post here. Some of whom I talk to or interact with IRL as well. I am lucky that I am geographically close to them.

I agree, much to his chagrin, with Ibby's post. The cellar is like a living & ever evolving place - people come and people go. Its never going back to what it was - nothing is.

I miss a lot of the interaction that I used to have here. I also regret some things that I posted. I miss some of the people that no longer post here as well. That is life. Things change. People move on. I choose to post here a lot less because that is best for me.

I'd offer to abuse you 3F just so you feel more included, but you haven't pissed me off enough yet. You'll have to try harder.

Also Ibby, if you feel the Cellar A) used to be a more civil place, and B) stands to benefit from an improved level of discourse, your first move should be to change your signature.

It kind of shits on both your points.

This.

And most of what Classic said. And Ibs.

yeah, but i'm sick of letting everyone else have all the fun being nasty. at least my sig is a quote said personally to me.

Ibram, I'm with UT here.
You had Clod's amusing, more recent and more positive post for quite a while.
Why go back to something so unpleasant?
Yes, Merc wrote it, but it does not reflect the Cellar, and after all this time I don't think it actually reflects his view either.

FTR I think Monster is funny and informative 95% of the time. But when someone riles her she can get personal to the point of being spiteful. She can go from 0- incandescent in one post. I don't know if you really feel angry, Monster, but you do sometimes come across at a white-hot level.

I haven't voted in the poll because I don't think it's the right way to address things.

Are all of you high?

BTW, FTR, I voted: "No: I don't like how they respond to some posters."

Kthxbai.

You want Room 12.

blah blah blah. you forgot to end your criticism with "...in my opinion."

In my opinion, this is the *core* of the vast majority of the arguments on the cellar, indeed, most of the arguments in our society from politics to baseball and around again. ["In my opinion,] Policy ABC, which is supported only by poopyheads like you, is stooopit." When I hear "arguments" made in this way, I fill in the missing "in my opinion" for the speaker, as I have done for (myself) on your behalf, jimhelm.

***

In my opinion, monster's remarks are sometimes funny, sometimes informative, but the most memorable ones are unfunny and vitriolic personal attacks, voiced, naturally, in her opinion. I am tired of the abuse monster dishes out so freely.

Be that as it may for now, everyone knows the story of the organ grinder and the monkey and what the organ grinder does to the monkey at the end.

:corn: "flashback"!

So why didn't he also post my public apology to the statement I made?

Look in the mirror dude. You fail in a big way with your sig line. I apologized to you in public soon after that post. You are a martyr. And with your posting in the sig line you prove yourself to be a One Trick Pony. Get on with your life. How many years ago was that post made? You are going to let a single post define your life and existence for how many years now?

Or, he's angry that you're not more like him 'cause he has a crush on you ... you tease!

Well, good question. Since I am as old or older than his father, I certainly hope not.

Personally I don't like this thread, I think its in bad taste and anon is trying to get support to gang up on IM and Monnie. I like both of them, most of the time, sometimes a poster (not just those two) will attack another poster in a way/reason I just don't understand. I like sarcasm, and I think I can tell when a poster is being sarcastic, but when I see personal attacks they make me less likely to post my own opinion because I know I would not be able to shrug it off if I were attacked that way and would turn my own kind of nasty. I'm just too much of a coward to handle that, and part of the reason why I have not been a prolific poster lately. I think we might not know each other as well as we think and have filled in the gaps in facts we have about other posters with our own perceptions. I kinda wish we could all reset our personal biases and grudges we have against one another that we've developed over our long time posting here. In fact, I will make it my goal to do that.

MTP, what we do is "fill in the gaps" with assumptions we make about other posters based on the limited exposure that we have to individuals based upon the very limited postings we are exposed to on this Forum. This is such a microcosm of who we are as people. To try to box or define each other outside of this medium, other than within the confines of this medium, and to make assumptions about who we are in real life is a huge mistake. These interactions are far from real life understandings of each other, no matter how hard we try or how many little secrets we try to feed each other as an attempt to be part of the community.

That was my point. Are you trying to explain that to me or just expand on my original statement? I'm sorry, I'm just confused since you directed the post at me, I feel like you're trying to explain my own point to me. Maybe I was not as clear as I meant to be?

Then "many people" should speak up and say something about it. Otherwise shut the fuck up. The anonymous account is not a vehicle for making sniper attacks. This thread is despicable and cowardly. Shame on you. If you can't manage your affairs better than this, then please leave this website and take your shitty attitude with you, whoever you are.

P.S. Your poll options don't make any sense, dumbfuck.

Signed, Flint
Feel free to address all comments regarding THIS post to ME.

1) I was agreeing and expounding on your point. So I guess that means I was expanding on your original statement.
2) Why would you feel like I am trying to explain something to you that you already understand and feel. Stop reading into my post. It stands by itself as well as plays off what you already stated.

What flint said , grow some ballz or STFU !!!!!

Like I said, sorry for my confusion, I was not trying to 'read into your post.' Just the addressing me specifically threw me off. Thank you for clearing that up.

Listen up, anon et al. I ain't gonna change. You don't like it? Tough. You want rid? Make this place so floral, wishy-washy and marshmallow-post infested I can't take it any more. But I will fight such invasions until it ain't worth it, and I suspect I'm not alone, so you have your work cut out. But feel free to try.

Yes, I'm like this in real life. My time is valuable, I don't waste it on people who are intolerably dumb or irritating in my opinion. You get a couple of chances, then you get ignored and if your idiocy makes you unignorable, then I'mm'a tell you about it. And then it's done. Out of sight out of mind. You really don't know anyone like that in real life? Or you just expect the interweb to be all Snow White and Disney?

FFS look at the user name I picked. Sometimes you can judge a book by the cover if it's graphic enough.

If you can't stand the heat, you really should get out of the kitchen. If you allow your feelings to be hurt by strangers on the interwebs, then this is not the place for you. I don't expect, need or want to be liked by everyone. So "ouch, my feelings". Seems like maybe you do. This is just not a realistic outlook on life.

But I voted against me to try and give you a little emotional boost there ;) Now rub some dirt in it and man up.