Buying a New Car
 

US-centric thread, sorry.

I hate it. I need help. Yes, this is our second new car this year. Yes, the minivan, yes we need a new van. Must have slidey doors.

No more info about needs/lokes/wants b/c everyone ignores them anyway. Test drove the Town and Country today, quite liked it.

We're (apparently but it kinda surprised us given our upbringings.....) "buy new, run for 10+ years" kind of people.

need advice about buying new cars, current minivans, test-driving, dealer-speak etc.....

But before all y'all tell us how to bargain...... Beest is "in the industry-ish" and we get 1% below invoice on the T&C So if you want to advise on the price aspect, there's a starting point. (and again, all advice welcome, thanks)

oh and getting finance is not an issue -focus is on total $ paid, not monthly payments, if that makes sense.... Although not complaining about a good deal -just hear that some people pick their cars by monthly payment regardless of final cost......

I do adore our MPV. Which they are now apparently calling a "Mazda5" instead. But the thing that has always made it awesome is how the third row magically collapses completely flat into the floor, leaving a whole truck bed's worth of space in the back. I can't tell from the Mazda website if the damn thing even does that anymore.

tx. the t&c does that too.

Minivans are called MPVs in the UK

This is actually a rather timely thread for me--our previously mentioned MPV is displaying 175,000 miles of hard use right now. We are expecting it to be dead in another year or so, and need to start getting an idea of what's out there.

Brother's family likes their Honda Odyssey...often hauling three kids and a large dog, and various other eccentrics, um...relatives.

It's sharp. State o' the art.

My understanding is the MPV is a different vehicle than the Mazda5. The Mazda5 is smaller and more fuel efficient and maneuverable with fairly cramped seating, and the MPV is a standard sized minivan with the fuel economy you would expect from one.

We're actually replacing our 2000 Venture too. Probably next year.

Front running candidate for the new vehicle is the Toyota FJ.

By all reviews Odysseys are the cream of the crop, with a price tag to match, I don't get any deal on them. :sniff:

Give me a call tomorrow if I can help, monstah.

OK so I'm pissed right now. I just got this email and I call BS. Am I right?

This sound very familiar, having just bought a Fit in January. Is that a rat I are smelling?

I call BS. Classic car (and other type) sales M.O.

We had a T&C for about ten years; it was a pretty good car. Every North American vehicle we ever owned had major issues, though (the T&C had chronic A/C problems and the struts dissolved in rust; other cars were worse). Every Toyota we owned was great - driven to 200,000 miles with regular maintenance and no other issues.

If you drive a vehicle 10+ years, as you said, you might want to look at Toyotas.

"Yeah, buddy. You go ahead and show the car to that 'other customer.' Have fun with that."

Unimaginative, blatantly lying. Do not buy from a liar.

It's just offensive, really. Did I really appear that dumb? I told him I'd walk away if he messed with me. Will he now have me on file as "his" so no other chrysler dealer can touch me? Ugh. Now I just want to pump more money into my 12yo Windstar to keep it running some more. I told you i hate car shopping and this is why.

I mean beest saw several of these models at the other dealership...... it's just this one is closer to me. And she said she could transfer between dealerships, yet he's all like "it's this one or nothing...."

*shudders and feels dirty*

It's typical Car Sales 101, their managers probably sack them if they don't do it ... you can just answer the email and sweetly tell him to go right ahead and show the car to that 'other customer' ... and go and buy from someone else. But they're all liars, so ... you pays your money and takes your choice. ;)

But couldn't they at least put a little effort into it? ah well....

Yeah, be creative when you lie to me. Is that too much to ask?

Back a few, I was looking at a Mercury that kind of appealed to me (although I didn't really need another car). I'm in the guy's office, along comes another sales guy with "another customer" who wants to test drive the Merc "if this guy isn't buying it". My guy says "You want it or not?" I toss the other "customer" the keys, tell him it's a real nice car and leave. I'll just add that I was there early and from where I was sitting, there were no other customers in the place.
Salesguy called me for a week, until I told him I had bought a new Saab instead.

When I was shopping for hatchbacks the first guy I spoke to, at a local Ford dealer, strigjht out lied to me about the availability of manual hatchbacks, went in his office to check the database, one manual hatcback in all of Michigan, across the state, might already be sold.

Any other dealer I went to, within 20 miles of this guy, had at least 2 or 3 sitting on the lot.



Maybe it's an old school thing, they don't know I can check the inventoryof dealers myself from their own websites, maybe a lot of customers don't know this and the trick still works.

how funny, I was going to post that clip too -but i wanted it dubbed to "Cellar says bullshit"

Monster,

The other Chrysler dealers are this guy's competitors. they do not black list customers. go to the dealer that shows the van you want in inventory. use the pricing beest gets as a MAXIMUM price. offer something lower than that. next week is a good week to buy.

pay no more than 2.75% for a 5 year loan with your good credit. analyze rebate vs special APR option, too. I can offer some help with that if you like.

Looks like they have $2000 rebate plus $1250 Ally/Chase bonus.... whatever that is... and some kind of trade in assistance thing. maybe call 2 different dealers and ask for the details on those offers.

Thanks Jim :)

no prob, and good luck! car shopping should NOT suck.

all shopping sucks

Jim, when I have a down payment saved and an offer from my credit union, will you advise me on trading in my Avalanche on a new one?

Yes, I know you don't work for Chevrolet, but I am assuming that the process is similar everywhere.

Of course. Its in my contract

You wouldn't buy a $40 camera without shopping around, why spend thousands without doing so? In these internet days I even shop around before buying a CD.

I go out, look at cars, decide what I want then go visit as many dealers as is practical and decide upon the best deal no matter which salesman has the prettiest smile. Some places I'll never go back to.

See, I disagree with that. Ill pay more if the service is excellent. If the sales person has the balls to ask you to pay $1-200 more because he plans on remembering who you are the next day, and the dealer its closer....

But only to a point.

Who said they weren't shopping around? Not me for sure. Also, you're in the UK. No offence, but you have no idea. And that was kind of a patronizing post.

Okay.

...and it's 3am. Are you OK?

...because that was also a little out of character.

#seepatronizing is contagious -but I did mean that genuinely

It is 3am, I'll be up for a couple of hours yet, it takes a while to wind down.

Good luck with your car hunting, I'm a car lover, I hope you get what you want.

I want my old car to last for another 12 years :(

I was a car lover too, when I was younger. I'm not as agile now, and the gear shift isn't on the column in my current car so it just gets in the way.

Um so I are a car idiot. But, after driving the 2012 T&C then going back to my 12yo windstar, I prefer my Windstar. It accelerates like a boss. I just wish the darn transmission wasn't a timebomb... apparently we've spent over $3000 on it this last 12 months and the transmission (notorious for blowing around 10o-150K on windstars) still hasn't gone...... (we're at 160K)

So they're busy trying to sell off 2012 models now. What happens to them if they're not gone in the next week?

nothing.

have you looked at the Quest?

A kickback for placing the financing with Ally/Chase.

Any color you like as long it's not a color.:gray:

I know exactly what you mean. My 16 year old Geo Prizm is better than any new car offered for sale today. That I can afford, anyway. I'm gonna drive this thing into the ground. I figure if we spend on average $1K a year on repairs to keep it going in top form, we're better off than buying a new car.

Try shopping around for a transmission place before you need the work done. The chains and the dealers are going to charge the most. There's probably a hole in the wall transmission place that does good work and is half what those other places charge. About 18 years ago, our old Buick's transmission died, and the tow truck driver took it to a little shop he knew of. I forget the actual numbers, but a couple weeks later we went to a funeral and I was talking to an uncle who had just had the transmission fixed at Aamco for his car, and he paid 3 times more than I had paid. He was pissed when he heard that.

Hmm, edmunds and cars.com both liked the 2012, only slight gripe was the interior space with the seats folded isn't as big as others. Huge end of season discount right now.

But really Titanium beige is the nearest thing to a color,
Super Black, has HotBlack Desiato feel to it.

I can fix the color with duck tape :)

Ugh, back to it.... it wasn't the transmission that got it in the end, the ABS is kaput. $1,000. Um, no.

Beest just drove an Odyssey and like it, but $$$ and absolutekly no trade discount (although it sounds like that may be irrelevant to the end price at this time of year......?)

did you check out fightingchance.com?

I did. I remain sceptical....

I bought my Sonata GLS for 15,800. Sticker price was 21,800.

My friend got his Toyota Tacoma for 2,000 less than sticker price.

If nothing else, the negotiating techniques are great.

And Skeptical has only one c. The one towards the end of the word. ;)

How much does a dealer make on a new car anyway?

I am very close to making my deal now, say two more weeks.
I will have to order what I want and the dealer will either trade for it or get it from the factory.
My trade in is worth around $17,000 according to KBB.com.

We're probably going to buy a used car this weekend. Haven't chosen it yet, but once we do, how do we negotiate price?

We're looking on cars.com at mid-sized sedans that are recommended by Consumer Reports in the $6K to $8K range. These are going to be cars from around 2003, give or take, and have in the neighborhood of 100K miles on them.

Do I just randomly ask for $500 less than the price they are listing the car for? I'm not sure how I could find out what they acquired the car for, presumable when someone traded it in. It's not like I can get dealers competing against each other, because the supply is fairly limited. Whatever car I decide I want, there are going to be no other cars just like it on the market in my area. They will have different mileage or different options.

I assume the price tag on the used car will be negotiable. I'd like to negotiate from a position of at least a little knowledge. I won't have anywhere near as much knowledge as the salesman who knows what they paid for the car and what they will take.

6-8k is a tricky range. you could get fucked. you could find a peach. take the car to your mechanic to be inspected if the dealer will let you. get the car fax.

It's actually hard to find a car like that at a regular new car dealer. and if you do, they either sell it as-is, or they've done the work to it, and it costs too much. You're probably buying a car that would trade for 4k. for an import that means over 100k.

most salesman have a short list of people that are looking for that kind of car, and as soon as one is traded, it goes.

we DO have an 03 Accord in our inventory that has been here for 67 days, and the new boss wants everything over 60 days to go away. we have about $7377 in that car. if you want to drive up, you can get it for $8377 plus tax, tags. NADA retail value is $10,250.

http://www.cherryhillnissan.com/preo...393A069334.htm

my sister put 200k on her 98 accord. thing is still running.

If you're buying new, you can go to Consumer Reports (Consumer's Union) and pay $12 for the dealer's cost, shipping, wholesale on options, rebates, incentives(kickbacks) to dealers, and any other pertinent information. For a month you can log in and check for changes, which happen more often than you would think.

Now you know exactly what the dealer pays, which can keep you from getting raped, but don't be a dick. The dealer has to make a profit, apart from what they make on financing and selling your trade-in, or they won't be around long. You want them there, and on your side, if there's a problem.

We'll definitely take it to our mechanic to check it over.

We looked at a Sienna and an Odyssey at that price point last weekend. We brought the kids to check out the back. They quickly destroyed the Sienna. I felt a little bad, but the kids really didn't break it. they just discovered the flaw right away. There is some thumb button up at the top of the sliding doors that you push in to get them to open automatically. They pushed the button in, and the door didn't open and the button got jammed. I looked closely at the button and saw that it had been jammed before and had been pried out. The plastic molding was all scratched up around the button. So they climbed out a different door and we left the salesman there trying to fix the thing.

The Odyssey was nice. Everything worked well. I'm temped to buy it, but my wife decided she didn't want to drive around in a minivan. So we're going to look at mid-sized sedans.

Thanks for the offer on the Accord. It looks very nice. I wish you were local. I'd probably buy it from you. But I can't invest 4-5 hours of driving to get a car I haven't even test driven or had my mechanic check out. I'd be locked in after making that trip. But the math is interesting. Are you giving me the Cellar discount, or would you give that price to a tough negotiator?

NADA retail value (whatever that is) is $10,250
You have it listed for $9995
You are willing to let it go for $8377
It cost you $7377

Are those ratios pretty typical? I'm not even looking at the cars listed for $10k since they are more than I want to spend. Maybe I should be aiming higher in the hopes I can negotiate.

this is a 'decreasing value menu'

this is what you may be presented with in finance. these items are negotiable, and available individually. as you can see, the same items appear in some of the packages. each bold type title is an individual policy. very rare that someone goes with the platinum, because not every policy is appropriate for different situations.

if you're financing more than 85% of the vehicle's value for more than 3 years, GAP is probably a good idea. I believe in service contracts if the price is right, and offered by the manufacturer. Also, the Road Hazard, if the car you're getting has big tires and wheels.

1. price of policy (this is usually not shown until the final selection is made)

2. the payment impact

3. total car payment with the selected package included

4. the payment with no additions. (the salesman may have given you a number higher than this, but that number should be the truth)

i think we traded it for 6500 and did 877 in various recon. no, $1000 over cost on a used is a low margin. most places wont let it go that cheap unless it's some kind of white elephant. i was just trying to give you an idea of what that money buys. if you can find this same car for this same money near you, you're doing well. when a family member or friend buys a used car here, it's usually $1500 over on a retail type car. $500 over on a wholesale car. this one is kind of a tweener. it should have sold by now. I guess it's at the high end of most cash buyer's budgets.


NADA is the pricing guide the banks use to set values to base their loans on. some dealers use it to place values on cars they trade, too.

left in the morning planning to buy the Honda Odyssey if we could agree a good price. Guy was such an asshole, that after the test drive (which was OK but not in the car we had ageed to drive and therefore kind of irrelevant) we went straight across the road to the Chrysler/Dodge dealer -the one that beest had spoken to before and had shown what a lying asshole/by the steroetype book salesdickhead the one we had been dealing with before was.....

Said "hey, we're back. we didn't buy last month because we got all set on the T&C and then it drove like a pile of junk and the salesguy was a dick. So we put it on hold. ........Now we got a kick up the butt to get back into the market and we got all set on the Odyssey..... but the dealer across the road didn't get the "don't give us sales bullshit and we'll be straight with you otherwise we'll walk" so he pulled shit and we walked. Can you convince us that it was the car we drove and not the brand as a whole that's shit, and that it's just the other salespeople and not all of then that don't realize we just want the straight shit?"

Talked to us for a bit, really got a feel for what we wanted (nice drive but no bells and whilstles) Gave us a higher level Grand Caravan to try (over the base t&C -supposed to be comparable, but no, they are not really). (First T&C/Dodge guy lied by saying not possible to get one anymore). It drove fine. As good as if not marginally better than the Odyssey. Previous test-drive must have been a fluke re a T&C thing. (For non Americans/car people -they're pretty much the same car but branded for a different market -didn't encouter such a thing before moving here, so can't find a good simile. A Rose by any other name...."

....It has everything we need, nothing we don't need. the rear seats are not as comfortable as the windstar's, but they fold into the floor rather than needing to be hauled out and stored in the garage when we don't need them. Excellent.

Yes, there are "standard features" of the T&C (and the Odyssey) that would be nice, but there are many more that look like they would be majorly expensive once the warranty expires and are not really essential to our life. i'll take the $100 less per month over that.

So I think we're paying the (refundable) deposit to get one moved to our dealer for us to try before we sign on the line. Tomorrow. (The one we tried today was moved there for another client)

This is the second new car we have shopped for in the last 12 months, we're kind of horrified by the "standard sales tactics" and even more so by the people who just don't believe that we will walk if you treat us like moronic purchasing puppets. This person totally "got us" They saved a whole lot of time/effort/bullshit by downgrading rather than upgrading us. They made it clear there's no real negotiation beyond our industry and manufacturer rebates. They weren't willing to waste time negotiating. (Which is disappointing in that we'd like to pay a little less but then again not -we hate negotiation and our time is valuable too and the price is OK).But sold a car with very little time investment. Because they did what we wanted and didn't try to sell us something we didnt want/mess with us.

Furthermore..... This salesperson let us walk out of there without signing on the line, without trying to call in their sales manager to see if they could get us a better price if we signed right now... without telling us we had been wasting their time if we weren't prepared to buy right this fucking minute. She knew we were going to buy but would walk if faced with a "sign now or lose the deal" (yes, there is no deal, there's absolutely no need to sign now, but they still try that shit anyway.....) But she is the first dealer to ever be cool with us sayig "we never sign anything on the spot, we need to go haome, take 24 hours and discuss..." And she's getting a sale.

Yes, it was a she. Car Sales Places, you'd do so much better hiring more women salespeople. When i was in sales (not cars) as a student, the women always earned more comission than the guys. They get people. I'm not sating hie all women. But more of them.

It's not the car of anyone's dreams, but it's the car of our reality and if it does what the Windstar did, it will have done it's job.

The only downer is the trade-in they offered for the Windstar. we knew it would be low, but it's laughable -a third of what sales-lady said when beest talked to her before, even though he was honest about it's condition. That said, there's currently a rebate that make it worth it to accept it. If we sold it privately, we might be able to get a few hundred more, but -given the stress of car-buying, it's worth that to us not to have to deal with the stress of car-selling.

Oh and......


LJ rocks! Beyond advice in this thread. We're thinking of commisioning a wire and styrofoam statue......

;)

Thanks, cock.

Boink!

Jim,
it's probably a bit premature to ask this, but we're going to test drive this car this morning. After looking at about 75 cars online, this is the one that is most promising.

2001 Camry

It's older than I wanted. 2001, but it has very low miles. One owner. No accidents. It's a model I want with features I want. Although leather seats would have been nice.

We'll test drive it, and then if we like it, take it to our mechanic to check over.

So (and this is where I'm getting ahead of myself), what is a reasonable offer for us to make? It's being sold by a dealership, not a used car place. It's been on their lot since 8/29. They are asking $7.500.

NADA trade value is $6188, retail is $8288.

So, you're not getting hurt at $7500. the car fax is clean, one owner, no accidents....

looks clean.

Doesn't hurt to ask them to go lower, though. I'd open them up at $6000, go as high as $6800 and then get up to leave. maybe go have lunch if they let you leave. if they let you leave, you can kind of feel good that they are all in. if they say yes to your first offer..... oops!

are you trading anything?

so, any news on the minivan front?

Not trading anything. We'll just write a check.

So we did the test drive, and it passed our test. We like it. Our mechanic has it now. I hope he finds nothing.

Some additional information:
The sticker in the window says the price is $10,221.
(But the ad online says $7500)

When we went to the dealership, the lot was so full, we had to park in front of a competing dealership and walk past their car inventory to get to this dealership to try the car.

They gave the car to us overnight. We'll take the kids driving tonight.