Seriousness That Changed You
 

I was going over the thread about Silliness, and it kicked off some thinking in the other direction. What serious, hideous or other decidedly not-funny incident or series of events first made you realize that life could really, really suck?

I suppose the question for some could cause the dredging up of old and awful memories, and if so, please only share within your comfort zones. It just seems to me that, if we are going to discuss the light side, we should also flip the duct tape over and see what lie's on the inverse.

For me, the first really distinctive memory that things were not all sweetness and light in the world, the first that I really grasped at all, was the assassination of JFK. Although I was too young to have had much of an opinion about him myself, the effect on all the adults around me was very impactful. The images of the funereal procession on TV was also profound. The Saturday AM cartoons it wasn't.

Still, it wasn't until I reached adulthood, married and had a kid that I really learned just how fucked up things can get, but that's where I reach my limit of desire to share further, so let's boot the ball over to you all.

Losing. They say when one door closes another opens. That may be so but it's usually not simultanious. That poignant pause is sometimes shattering. Losing jobs, lovers, friends, faith, etc.

     I thought of a few stories of childhood disillusionment when I first read the thread but no full thoughts to type out. Then at the grocery store the other day I saw something that might qualify.

     In the line in front of my daughter and I was a boy in the shopping cart. He was probably six or seven, but it was hard to say. He was beyond skinny, more like emaciated. His poorly formed bones stuck out through tightly pulled flesh. I'm not sure what the boys illness was, but he was clearly severely underdeveloped. For all this he looked out at the world with an odd blank interest, at first I thought he was mentally deficient as well. Then he looked me in the eye with what appeared to be shining intelligent eyes. It was weird, one moment he looked dazed but curious. The next he looked like someone that had just struck upon a new idea. He looked at me with clear recognition of a stranger in front of him. He expression changed, he smiled shyly, even nervously and raised a hand in a wave that was almost as underdeveloped as his body. It hurt a little to see his great optimism in what was likely to be a very short and painful life. I gave him a warm (hopefully even playful) smile and a little wave back.
     About that time his mother, who was loading the items onto the conveyor to be rung up, seemed to realize someone was looking at her son. She turned almost to quickly for me to pretend to have been looking at something else all along. After she shot a severe look into my peripherals she wrote a check. As unobtrusively as possible, I studied the woman's face, she looked tired, beyond tired actually. Like she had been emotionally pushed to the breaking point everyday for years. The boys head had laid down on the hand grip. He clearly and sharply said the word "UP" and his mother reflexively raised his head back up straight. Apparently he could usually hold his head up but once it laid over, he needed help. This happened twice while we were there.
     I thought about how hard his mom's life must be, and how tired she looked. Maybe in the dark corners of my mind I wondered if she resented the fact that she had been given a son that couldn't live a normal life. That would never be able to take care of himself. Then I noticed her purchase. An inflatable swimming pool and a float.
     Most days I'll tell you I hate people. That people are largely and typically petty, deceitful, greedy and self-absorbed. Then I see a woman like this. Dutifully doing whatever she can to make her sons difficult and probably short life a happy one. Even if it killed her. Makes me wonder what people are really capable of deep down.

When we are faced with easing the pains of our children, I don't really know that there are any boundaries...at least, not within the hearts and minds of people who aren't hopelessly fucked up.

While my own son is nowhere near as incapacitated as the child you describe, he is also far from a normal young man. He will never drive, he will always have a seizure disorder, and his comprehensional and learning abilities are virtually fixed somewhere at a fourth grade level. He is 22 years old, but still relies on me and his stepmother for pretty much all of his transportation needs to work, the bank, the store, etc. He has few friends because he can't engage in many of the activities they enjoy...he can't drink because of the meds he takes, he is on a very limited income (SS disability and a meager part time menial job), and he simply doesn't have the same grasp of nuance and context that even the most feeble normal young adults have.

He is living mostly independently, but certain needs in his life will always be met by someone else. My wife and I have spent quite a lot of time over the past few years getting him to this point. We probably rushed him along a bit more than we should have, because we wanted to be able to see how he faired while we were still around to help him. After we are gone, he will likely be totally on his own, and believe me, he needs a lot of practice before that happens.

I'm not really bemoaning my lot in life...I could just as easily have lost the boy altogether 12 years back when his problems turned him from the smartest kid in class to the most fearful kid in special ed. Furthermore, any burden I have to bear in his name pales in comparison to the challenges he faces each and every day in a world filled with people who don't want to or are unable to grasp his limitations and handicaps. I guess all I'm trying to say is that, yes, it does wear one down, but I will have to be worn almost down to nothing before I could not find the strength in myself to do whatever it takes to see my son as safe, strong and happy as he can be given his abilities and limitations.

Love for one's children really doesn't allow any less.

Jebus H. Christ! I've got a million questions, but I'm not going to ask. :eek:

Wow.

I'm almost wish you hadn't posted that, because I can't respond to it with one of my usual stupid remarks.

How old is your son now? How much does he know?

Good lord that is fucked up. And I'm sorry to hear it.

Don't answer if you don't want to. I guess I don't want to force you to think about it. Then again, I don't know how you could avoid it.

OnyxCougar wins i think...

I hope the second marrige worked out ok well i think you deserve it...

You also silenced dave, that's impressive.

By the way, I don't mean fucked up as in "your life is fucked up"... but fucked up that human beings do that to each other. Kidnapping, torture, dismemberment... unbelievable. And awful.

Jesus, OC...I am *so* sorry. I tell myself every day that many people have borne far worse burdens than myself or my family, and you definitely qualify.

Here's to better days and better people.

This whole thing is making me feel like a real asshole, because I don't know how to respond. And I can't leave it alone. So...

I'm really very, very sorry to hear about that. It's one of those things that makes you wish humans didn't exist, because we're the only type of animals that does those sort of things to each other.

I really don't know how else to respond. I'm sorry.

Wow.

Over the years, I think I've become used to the fact that it happened, and I didn't expect the responses I got.

I had a big old long reply written, then I clicked on a link in my mail program and it used this window (of course) to go there and when I came back, it was all gone. :(

I'm happy to answer any questions, or expound, if you like. It's been a long 32 years for me, and as I like to say, "It's not the age, it's the mileage." So go ahead and ask. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, Elspode.

Justin is 15 now, and he knows the basics. I haven't given him all the details. I didn't even know the details, until one day, I was screwing around, bored at work, and did a search on Google for Steven's name. Came up with this PDF file. (WARNING: It's textually graphic.)

The second marriage didn't do so well either, and now I'm single, living in Vegas, moving to Iowa August 1.

Yes, bad things happen. But how we deal with them and go on with our lives is what shapes us. I'm subscribing to the thread, so go ahead and ask away. :) Really.


edit: If I could type I could get a real job.

How did you tell him? Or did he know from just being around it?

I guess I've kinda assumed that there was still some feeling between you and Steven; have you told Justin this? How does he feel toward his father?

And, uh... please tell me Travis is in jail for a long, long, LONG time.

Whew! Iowa is farther than Las Vegas from Oregon. I hope it's far enough for you to look ahead and not behind. It sounds like you're coping and I wish you all the best. Both of you.

I liked your picture.:blush:

Bruce is a dirty, dirty old man.

I have almost the exact same situation with my 18-year-old son. Here in Pennsylvania, there is a training course available in public transportation for disabled youths and adults.

Our biggest problem is that there is no public transportation here in Grandview. There is one bus stop, it runs mostly expresses downtown, and it is about five miles from his apartment. Even if he could be trained to ride the bus around town, there are so many places they don't go in the KC Metro area. Our public transportation system is probably among the worst in the world.

Good grief, please, think nothing of the sort. This is precisely the type of thing (not your specific case, of course, but the conept of discussing how and when our outlooks on life changed and why) when I started this thread. It certainly wasn't just to air my own miseries.

It does sound like you've come to grips with your experience, and that is the sign of a healthy individual, I think.

Picture? What picture? I miss everything, damn it.

here :D

:blush:

Prolly should've posted something more...PG, huh?

No, we're (mostly) adults here. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Little kids should be out playing hide and go fuck themselves.

NO.

And your point is?;)

I can't say it better than I did the first time. :)

But you make it sound like a bad thing.;)

That is pretty fucked up. I would get on the horn with your lawyer ASAP and find out exactly what you can do about this. I can't believe there isn't some sort of internet equivalent of a restraining order. Maybe they only allow him access to a very restricted list of sites? I would think you should be able to sue the state of Oregon for endangering you and your family like this, if you want to take it that far.

If nothing else, I'm sure there is enough talent around here to fuck up that website of his. Maybe Undertoad also would be willing to block whatever IP range the prison is using, to prevent him from reaching the Cellar, although that isn't a foolproof method.

It says on the site that all e-mail responses will be slow, as e-mails must be be physically printed out and mailed to him. So, it sounds to me like someone made the website for him, and he just sent them a letter saying what to say. Charles Manson had a website up at one time, too, via the same methods (outside help).

Unless you prevent him from sending letters or having visitors, I don't see how you can stop this.

Life, with no parole. Prison is not the place to be for a pretty, alpha, male. So he's building a fantasy world courtesy of some gullible bimbo. His real world is quite another matter. No matter how bad he is, there's always someone badder to make him do things he doesn't want to do.
There was a guy in these parts called the Mudman. He was bad. He was the baddest. Now he's dead because, lo and behold, there was someone even badder than he was. I don't think even his mother shed a tear.
The Lord works in mysterious ways, so fuck him and keep your life on track. The best revenge is living well.;)

OC, I did a bit more digging around, and it appears that you can probably have this website shut down if you want to.

The IP address for raven.codenamex.com is 24.221.72.75. A reverse DNS lookup reveals this net block belongs to a Sprint Broadband service, sprintbbd.net (specifically, cpe-24-221-72-75.mi.sprintbbd.net is the host name).

This service's Acceptable Use Policy is here . Although it comes with 6MB of web space, this person is running a server directly from their Sprint broadband connection, which is prohibited under 1.1.21 of the Policy (emphasis mine):

So, it's your call how far you want to take it; you may end up pissing them both off, even though there's (hopefully) no way they would either know it was you for sure, or be able to track you down. If you do decide to take action, you can get hold of Sprint here .

She'll just put the website up on her 6 meg Sprint web space, or on a geocities account or something.

Aren't you guys for free speech?

Juju, I think the main issue here is that Onyx fears for her safety, as this guy is a bad dude. The rights of Onyx trump this turd's rights any day, given that he is in prison, therefore, he loses some of his rights. Plus, the initial issue was "Is this guy able to use the internet in prison?"

I dunno how I feel about prisoners being able to use the internet. While I feel it could be a valuable tool, there is the concern that prisoners could continue their "enterprise" behind bars.

Onyx, I know this guy is scum around the toilet bowl, but I would just let him carry on his delusion. He will never be back on the streets to threaten you and your family. He has yet to initiate any kind of contact with you (right?). And you've given yourself a low profile in case he does try to contact you. Not to mention, I suspect that if you do anything to try and have that site shut down, you'll be one of the first people suspected of it, and then he (or someone on his behalf) WILL try to look for you.

If anything, if you can somehow find it within you, laugh at that website. Laugh at his outright patheticness, chuckle at the fact that he'll never meet the transsexual of his dreams, howl at the fact that he'll never see the outside again.

You sound like you're on the right path with your life, Onyx. Let this situation be a mere roadside attraction that's not worth stopping to see.

Tell him briefly how Justin is doing and leave it at that. Though your ex is a piece of shit, be a better human being than he is.

I'd send that to the lawyer.

And how does a lifer pay a lawyer?

Geez...I've missed a lot since I started this thread.

This guy is seriously fucked up...more than I'd even been able to gather from your initial posts, if that is possible. Sometimes, I'm hopelessly naieve, even where murderers are concerned.

OC, I think I'd forward a message through the intermediary lawyer (since you are certain you have covered your tracks well enough), but at the end of that message I would make some sort of statement along the lines of "this is the last such inquiry I will answer, do not try to contact me again."

I think this poor excuse for human debris needs to be out of your mind forever. It is the quickest path to healing. You owe him *nothing*, and further contact with him can only be bad for both you and your son.

Good luck. You are a very strong person, and you should be very proud of how you've conducted yourself in light of the horrifying experiences you've had.

It just now occurred to me to ask...why did the PI want to know about sexual abuse in Travis' past? What possible bearing could this have on anything at this point? Is Travis suing someone?

This couldn't be background work for an appeal or anything, I hope?

Onyx - I live in Oregon. I remember when this happend. OMFG. Sadly - enough I think - I know some people in the Oregon Penn. (They deserve to be there - not nearly as much as that son of bitch does - but they deserve it none the less) Oh my God. I don't know what else to say except that I prayed to the good spirits to protect you and give you strength when I read that post.

(And - as a side note on his link - I think he's butt ugly and I bet he's someone's bitch which is why he has that page to begin with - needs to think that he's a man. He's not. He's not even human.)

OC,
I just spent two hours reading this thread and am flabbergasted. Life has sure dealt you a shitty hand so far, except for your recent marriage :) . I hope for you this one is the real deal. I don't even really know what to say except that you seem like a strong, solid, healthy person now and I applaud you for that. When I hear such a horrific tale as this it makes my measly woes seem irrelevent in the scheme of things. By your overcoming and moving on, I feel hope that I can "not sweat the small stuff" and try to live life in a more positive manner. Please don't take my post as turning attention to me, but I just want to let you know that even though I don't know you personally you have impacted me by surviving such bad things and turning out to be such a good, caring, friendly person.

I'm curious, what did you end up doing? Did you get word to the lawyer that Justin is OK, did you not make any further contact? I really don't know what I would do in this situation. I think I would send the lawyer a note saying that you have no interest in relaying any info. about your child to the "shitbag" in prison and that if he wanted to know how his son was he should of thought of that 12 years ago. I'd add the part about..."This is the same man that, when I told him I was pregnant, said, "Is it too late for you to get an abortion?" The same person that ultimately pushed me to give Justin to Travis' aunt (we were homeless because he wouldn't work), and the same person that physically and emotionally abused me for over 2 years. After I had returned to England with Justin, I sent him a picture of Justin and a picture of Stonehenge. He sent the picture of Justin back and said he didn't care about him, but would I send a few more of Stonehenge?" for good measure. I really don't know though, something like this may just make "the asshole" more curious.

I was also curious (but if you'd rather not discuss it I would fully understand)...about Justin. Does he live with you now? Does he have any guilt feelings (for lack of better words) about what happened, I mean like feeling he was in some way responsible for his dad's (I can hardly bring myself to call this "sick-ass, murdering, piece of shit" someone's 'dad') behavior? Does he show any signs that he might consider himself a "bad seed" and think he might end up like "sperm donor"? I am in no way insinuating that this is likely to happen, but I remember seeing shows about children who are the product of a rape and when they learn of the circumstances of their conception they feel like they are not worthy human beings and other things along the "bad seed" line and go on to have mental and behavioral problems that affect their lives. I was just wondering if this might be true of a child whos parent commited a horrible crime like murder.

That would be "irrelevant"...

and "whose".

Thank you, Dave.

Nice quick correction. Rest assured that I saw it before you edited.

Just to reinforce, it's "Thank", not "Tkank".

Can't get anything past you can I? I took that reflex test that UT linked in the Cool site thing but couldn't post about my lacking reflexes because UT posted there. I digress. Needless to say, while you were faster than lightening I was slower that molasses in Jan., but don't assume slow physical reflexes equate to slow mental function. I know you think I'm am an idiot and to some extent I agree, but at the same time I'm not as dumb as you think I am. Although, I'll never be as smart (or smart-assed:rolleyes: ) as you Dave. That I'm confident you can count on. Does that make you feel better that I have bowed down in homage to your superiorness? FYI, in case you are unable to decipher my tone, I'm half serious, half joking with you. I'm thinking of not even re-reading my posts for spelling or grammatical errors anymore just so you'll have something to do other than give me an ass kicking about everything I write. I might even start to purposely add a few typos for your reading pleasure. I was truly touched by your sincere answer to my dial-up question in the Wolf computer thread. I knew you could do it. I just wish you could do it more often than not. Unlike some people here I actually appreciate your spelling/grammatical corrections. Keep up the good work:thumb: . I didn't even proofread this post so see what you can come up with.:p

"I know you think I'm am an idiot..."

Oh that was bad...I'm am...that's really bad.

Dave, you're slipping. I caught that before you did.

Superiority.

      Ok, now what the hell is this? It's one thing when Dave is harassing someone. He's been around and we all know that it's harassment for his own amusement. No big deal. Now we get the C.C.C.?
      Christ, unless C.C.C. works for the government this is just annoying. Especially since it's doubtful C.C.C. is actually a newbie as opposed to somebody just making a name to harass for fun, without having to be recognized as someone that does this. This is just thread pollutant.

**smiles** I'm actually used to it by now. I've decided that for some reason, I had specific lessons to learn, or things to experience. All those bad things, the "shitty hand", made me a better, stronger person. Of course, I do have this weird facial tick.....

Well, if that's what my drama brings to you, I'm glad for it. I'd hate to think that I went through all that stuff for nothing. *smirk*

Well, thanks. I suppose I could have let things get out of hand, mentally, and just given up and let myself be "the victim". Those are the kinds of things that make or break a person. I feel the same way about people who lose their children. It was bad to lose Steven, but it would be worse to lose one of my kids. I am thankful that, relatively speaking, I got off as easily as I did. My husband, Steve, lost his 3 day old daughter to Strep throat 12 years ago. My step mother lost her 21 year old daughter, a girl I went to high school with, when a train hit the car she was riding in. She gets crunchy at Christmastime every year, when it happened. There are people who have lost SO much MORE than I have. So while you look at me and say, "damn, she lost a fiancee." I look at me and say, "damn, if that's the worst that ever happens, I'm one of the lucky ones." It's all in the outlook.

I simply didn't reply. I figure if he wants to know so bad that he sets the state to looking for me, (and they find me) I can then tell the state I want all the back child support that I should have gotten from their ward. I have a feeling that I know Travis pretty well, tho, and he doesn't really care, he is just trying to make himself look "fatherly" to the attorney for whatever he's trying to get away with this time.

No, he lives with David, one of my ex's, and the father of my youngest. David is who I was with when we picked him up. Generally speaking, he's a stable, mature, very disciplined individual. Very responsible. When I couldn't make it in Vegas anymore, I asked him if he would take both the boys (he's had Piglet since we separated). He thought it over, and finally agreed. So all three of my babies are in Mississippi with him now. I think the boys really needed the father figure and the discipline in their lives at this stage. (ages 15 and 10). I will probably get them back next summer. Justin can't wait.


I don't think he has any ideas like that, but I do know he has ALOT of anger issues. My mother and sister seem to think he hates women, although I don't see that. He looks EXACTLY like Travis, down to the way his teeth are sitting in his mouth, and it was difficult for me, at first, to accept him back into my life. He was incredibly traumatized.

The kids at school were teasing him about "your dad custs people up and puts them in hefty bags" and things of that nature. They were talking about Ron.

Justin didn't know Travis was his father. They never told him. (Of course, he was 7 at the time, and would NOT have understood, so I'm not mad about that.) I wanted to go with the police officers to Justin's school or have them go by his house and pick up clothes and say goodbye, but they wouldn't do it.

My first sight of him in over 5 years was when they brought him to the police station, and his teacher (who had come with him) bent over and said, "Now, see? That sure looks like your real mom!"

He went from a family of 8 kids (Bobbie had 7 total + Justin) in Oregon, to a 15 month old autistic brother with speech problems, and a very large, intimidating black man as his new father, a 6 foot 1 mother he never met, and got whisked away to England, of all places.

He was in second grade. Couldn't write, or even recognize his own name on paper. He had a birth defect I was not aware of, that, since it was left untreated, caused him to be blind in one of his eyes, and has sever nystagmus in both. Soon as we got him to England, we began patching treatment, and corrective surgery to straighten them out some, but the problem is with his optic nerve...and it cemented incorrectly over the 7 years they failed to get him treated. (That DOES piss me off.)

During one year of British school, he caught up a great deal, so we enrolled him in the same school the following year. (They group children by age there, not academic acheivement.) He entered 4th year there, and at the end of the year we came home and moved to Vegas. They tested him and placed him in 3rd grade. So he effectively lost 2 years. He's going to be 16 in December, and he's in 9th grade.

We took him to various psychologists over the years, both American and British, and he will not talk to them. It's a waste of time and effort, and he gets more pissed off at me for making him go. They recommend me trying every other year or so for 3 month periods, perhaps he'll open up.

He is alot like me. He picked up alot of my habits (which, glad to say are mostly benign). We had the same sense of humor. He does have a tendency to bully his little brother, and just like me, he does not play well with others at school. He's a loner. I remember going to the library every day during lunch to read. He can't read well, so he walks around the fence by himself. He doesn't fit in not only because his age, but because he has had to mature so much so soon.

He's not happy at David's, because he is so much more rigid then I am, but I guarantee his grades will be better, and he's already the manager of the football team. (If you can't play with em, lead em.)

I have never told him the specifics of what Travis did. I have told him that Travis has no interest in him. He still wants to go see him when he turns 18. I told him I'd go with him if he wants, he says, he'll think about whether or not he wants me to go. I think it's a growing up thing for him. I think he's hoping Travis will suddenly want to be his dad... He doesn't understand that even if he wanted to (he doesn't) he lost that chance a long time ago.

So I guess the short answer is, he's doing ok, with a few more issues than the normal 16 year old male... but I think he'll be fine.
http://www.geocities.com/onyxcougar/pics/icecream.jpg
My bad ass kids, 2 years ago

OC,
Thank you for sharing your story with me and for answering my questions. I have a couple more if you don't mind? So as of today does Justin now that Travis is his "real" father? Do you plan on getting all three of your kids back, or just Justin? Does Justin hold any resentment towards you for leaving him with Ron and Bobbie? or, for leaving him with David? I was wondering if this has anything to do with his possible dislike of women. I can see where Justin may be confused and angry with the whole situation/s. I hope when you get him back some of your strength will rub off on him and I hope he does well in life. Is his vision OK now, or is he still blind in one eye? What is nystagmus? Does new hubby have kids? Do they live with you? How does he feel about adding your three?

PS---OC,
The pic of your kids didn't show up on my pooter. Not sure if it's a problem on my end or not?

Yes. He knew the first day we had him.

I'll be getting the boys back. David keeps Piggy.

I think he did at first. My mother had said we could live with her if we got married. So off to Las Vegas, where she had to sign for me since I was 17 years old at the time. Two weeks later, she kicked us out.

So we were homeless, I was 8.5 months pregnant, couldn't get a job, Travis didn't want to work, but had no choice, so every other day or so he'd work for the guy who serviced the pool at my mom's apartment complex, and bring home $20.

Once I explained to Justin that giving him to someone who could take care of him properly, and the circumstances, he understood why we gave him to Bobbie.

He's not happy to be with Dave right now, but that's because Dave is alot stricter than I am and really makes him knuckle down with his school work.

He will always be blind in that eye, and as a matter of fact, his good eye is starting to deteriorate. The doctor told me he will most likely be blind completely before he's 30. There isn't anything that we can do, because it's not a problem with his eye itself, its the optic nerve and how it's wired into his brain.

http://www.nystagmus.org/aboutn.html for facts about nystagmus. They explain it better than I ever could.


Steve has two girls that live with his ex in Atlanta. He is excited about the boys moving in next year. We're still adjusting to the fact we have 5 kids. He's got boys now, and I have 3 beautiful little girls to spoil now instead of 1. We can't wait to meet each other's kids.

It's a Geocities thing, I think. Try just attaching the image. Or you could just link to a copy of the picture on a non-geocities site.

try this.

OC, the pic comes through on your last post:) . I hope you don't take this as being too nosey, but if I may ask, who is the father of your younger boy? I know Justin is from Travis and your girl is from David. Also, I was wondering if David re-married or has a girlfriend, and if so, how do the kids get along with her?