Can ya spare some change mister?
 

UT you are not allowed to read this thread. Get out.


Hey all, thanks for taking the time to open the thread. You won't find any pictures of cute puppies or silly kittehs here. This is just a straightforward request/reminder that although we don't have to buy a membership to enjoy the cellar - it isn't free.

I know it is an expensive time of year with buying Christmas presents and all. (Trust me i know how expensive it is to mail a cock.) Let's just remember that UT is living in the same month we are so if we don't fill the tip jar, then he has that much less $$ to spend on those he loves.

So go back to the main page, scroll down to the tip jar, click on it, and drop whatever you can into it. Remember -it's the thought that counts, but it's the coin that pays the bills.

Thanks,
LOOKOUT!



What? Oh. you really need a picture to motivate you?
Here you go.

Done!

This is done.

thanks for the reminder. done and done.

Done a few days ago, thanks for the nudge, though.

Mug donors I thank you all!

I must note that since there has been some confusion over mug status... no, it doesn't move after you donate. That'd be really awesome, but no, it depends on me reading my paypal account manually and raising it up. So it generally happens once a day.

Even then, your browser may actually cache the image, and show you the old image pre-mug-filling. It may take a day for the image to refresh. You can make that happen manually, but it's probably not worth it.

How do I set an alarm/reminder for myself to bump this thread monthly or to just hit the mug? Can we do that?

you could do that through your email classic, or else just note that at the first of the month, every month, the jar is 'less full'. Since you go into chat, if you click on the link at the bottom of the page, you can see where the tip mug is up to anyway.

i will personally bump this thread every month so long as it seems to have an effect.

Done

I am no longer a Cellar tip-mug-virgin. I have made my first deposit.

Now I need a nap.

The mug is full for December... by the 7th. Thank you all!

UT, do you have to pay a fee for PayPal transactions, or do you get the full amount?

UT actually owns paypal. he founded it with the earnings he received from the cellar. don't tell anyone.

There is a fee involved, some percentage and like 0.35 per transaction.

So, percentage wise, you loose more from a small transaction (say $5) than from a large one.

True.

so you're saying that to increase efficiency we should all tip in increments of $100?

Or higher, yes. :D

I thought the mug had been filled for Dec?

It has, any further donations will go into January.

If things really go well and donors seem ready to fill the mug all the time, we can then expand. I would really like to improve the server, with a 2U system with a RAID and hot-swappable drives. The barebones version is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816117060

One would add CPUs and drives to that and have a pretty nice colo setup. Six drives in a RAID mean that a dead drive doesn't take us off the air - ever. Right now, if we have a bad drive in the Cellar system, it's at least a day, maybe two to get there and replace/restore.

With something like that maybe we could add goodies, like image hosting for donors, cellar.org email accounts, who knows what people want.

that would be verrrrry cool!

We've filled the mug every month for the last 3 at least haven't we? That's got to be a record somewhere hasn't it?

I don't recall, but can you share the approximate minimum operating expenses required to fill the tip jar each month? Or better yet did you have a goal in mind to move to something better, a dollar amount per-month? I have no idea what it costs to do something like this.

The base number is $250. I pay $380/month to colocate* three systems with unmetered** bandwidth, and the Cellar is kinda-sorta one-and-a half of them. The systems themselves are about $1000 and depreciate over three years in theory. And there are various extras here and there; rack rails, a little hub, mileage to get to the colo, etc.

Google ads on IotD blog view take up some of the $250.


* colocate: putting servers in a rack in an internet provider's data center. This is typically done to get the best deal on bandwidth. The alternative is to get an expensive circuit to where the servers actually are.

** unmetered: it's rare for an internet provider to allow you to send/receive as much data as you can eat. Most plans come with a limitation. The Cellar kinda needs unlimited for the amount of traffic IotD and all the other images eat up. Even without IotD, we consume a ton of traffic here.

:chuckle:

Be prepared to register a considerable downturn due to rounding.

It sounds like you need to create a Cellar Xmas wish list, or have a Cellar pledge drive. It's for our own benefit, after all.

I think that would be a good idea. I would pledge $250 easily.

I would match TheMercenary's $25 pledge.

and to follow suit i personally guarantee that i will contribute 10% of HLJ's contribution.

I got the quarter!

i kind of feel bad about only pledging $2.50 though. i think we should aim higher. this should work:

Merc: $1000
HLJ: $100
L123: $10
Case: $1


still seems a bit low. would you be comfortable giving $5 case?

I really think that continuing donations are more important. This is only the third month of the Tip Mug filling and although it does so impressively, I do wonder what will happen when this initial burst of interest in it passes.

Until something breaks...

i think you have the right idea there UT. but in all honesty i would like to see you handle any monthly overages differently. rather than starting the next month with a credit already in the tip mug, just put it off to the side for future needs.

if you need $250 for the month and December produces $300 - then take that extra $50, set it aside for future needs and start on January 1st with the tip mug on $0. everyone here knows you aren't making a profit or running a scam, so i don't think anyone would have a problem with that. It's just that if you keep rolling the overage over, then the urgent reminder to tip becomes much less urgent.

IMO

I agree with lookout here. I don't think it's asking too much to fill it completely each month.

Realistically, even if the top 25 posters only contributed, that's only $10/month. I don't think that's too much is it?

I agree...I think this should be something that we bring back into the open every month to be sure your costs are covered, UT. If someone bumps this thread every month, I am sure to see it and I will donate whatever I can swing. After all, I get to post my paintings in the creativity thread and to do that anywhere else, I would have to pay (as I do, some places.)

Yes, put away the extra for months that maybe aren't so lucrative.

And what would be wrong with UT making a little profit? I mean, he puts a lot of time and effort toward this, anyway...more than some of us put toward working *looking towards self*.

If I tried to make it a money-making thing, it wouldn't make any money. I don't think this thing works if it's not community first. Plus, I would hate it if somebody accused me of operating in some way just to make more money from it.

personally i wouldn't have a problem with you receiving income for time spent working on the cellar or anything of the sort. that being said, i really respect that you do what you do because you enjoy the community. i think anyone who actually matters would agree that we all trust you not to skim from the register for lack of a better term. that is why i think it would be acceptable, even preferable for you to start each month at zero in the tip mug and pull any overages off the table so that you don't have to hit your personal checking account if one of your fancy dancy computer thingamabobs (technical jargon alert) needs to be replaced.

i said it before that i will personally bump this thread or place a reminder about the tip mug every month until i am told to stop by you or a moderator. who knows? maybe i'll think of some way to actually have fun with it. maybe i'll issue some challenges or figure out a way to turn it into a game. in fact, i hear LJ is going to donate a new nissan as a prize for a fund raising game we are having next month. *shhh, jinx doesn't know*

will it be right or left hand drive?

"Making money", "covering known expenses", "being able to cover unexpecteded but appropriate expenses by drawing on a reserve, built up by saving the suplus of the tips that exceed the monthly expenses"--these phrases are different how?

i'm sorry V, my brain isn't running at full speed so I don't really understand which direction your post is taking us. I'd like your view on this though. Do you agree that it would be a good idea to put extra tips into reserve for future repairs/needs, or do you see a downside to the idea that I missed?

Here is how I've processed this in my brain. UT in addition to being an allaround good guy is a bitchin bassist(and John Favreau impersonator, but i digress). IIRC he has been involved in several bands who play gigs and get paid for it. I think he is past the point in life of dreaming about landing a highly lucrative record deal and being a fixture on TRL... but making enough $$$ to break even and put a little off to the side for future equipment needs would seem to be a good goal. A self sustaining hobby.

I think the cellar is much like that. It is obvious UT gets great enjoyment from the cellar - as do we all. Having enough income generated to break even and pay for the necessary dodads seems like an admireable goal to me.

Anyway, that is how my brain works.

Oh, and i think it is important to remind anyone reading this that the cellar is not a pay for play environment. those that don't have the extra cash to tip really shouldn't - and shouldn't feel pressured or guilty if they are not able to do so. those that have the ability to tip and are so inclined, will.

You've nailed it sir. Self-sustaining hobby, that's what I think of both these endeavors...

And also, if I had to pay the whole Cellar bill myself, at this point in my life I would have to let it die. It's too much money for a hobby, and too much providing a free ride to folks, no matter how cool it really is.

Oh and there are no more lucrative record deals, the record industry is on life support and it looks like it is not going to pull through.

well, i don't know about anyone else since pretty much all my ties tot he industry at large and underground are cut, but the dudes in Fall Out Boy are doing quite well I can assure you.

The top 20 acts are in a somewhat different space, and will make more money from royalties, though even they do 5-6% fewer album sales every year since 2000.

yeah, and these kids are a bit different too. they were involved in the chicago, hardcore/straightedge scene for years before having a revelation. it was pretty linear really.
A) I need a job to get money.
B) I know the job won't be what I really want to do, but I need to do it.
C) If it isn't what I really want to do anyway, what's the harm in writing music that isn't what I like to listen to?
D) If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it all the way.

Thus the birth of fall out boy. from day one it was designed to have create two things: decent music and GOOD money.
check and check.

their videos have included the old hard core faithful from chicago. they've shot them in the old clubs. they've used some of the money to support the scene. they continue to be involved in side projects that are closer to what they really like. the merchandise and products are theirs. they aren't getting raped like a lot of the young acts who stumble into success do.

l123, UT:

Sorry I was unclear. I didn't try very hard to explain my point. That point is this: I think it is right for UT to accept tips to cover expenses. Those expenses include regular expenses like the colo bill and the line charges as well as equipment, maintenance and upgrades. Without the gear, the whole concept is moot. Just because the equipment expenses are not as regular as a monthly phone bill does not mean they are not as important to pay.

UNFORTUNATELY they tend to be higher than the monthly phone bill.

FORTUNATELY they tend to be more infrequent.

UNFORTUNATELY the amount cannot be precisely known in advance.

FORTUNATELY the amount can be saved for.

So my point is the same as yours, l123. Collect the tips. Pay the bills. Save for the "not if, but when" expenses. One good way to do this is start the tip mug *empty* each month. It is an incentive to donate. I am more inclined to respond to the nag of an unfilled tip mug more than I am to a filled tip mug.

I'm not the biggest donor nor am I the biggest freeloader. I'm in the middle somewhere. It's easier for me to donate smaller amounts more frequently than it is for me to donate larger amounts less frequently. So I'm counting on UT to have saved for the big expenses, because I have less confidence in my ability to come through in the pinch with big bucks than I do in my ability to pay some as I go.

By the way, Thank You, Undertoad, very very much for making the cellar possible. My appreciation of your efforts exceeds by far my ability to pay or express. You have done a good thing here, and I am grateful.

As I read it UT is putting aside for the irregular expenses.
$160/m is for the hosting, so about $90/m is put aside as "depreciation" to replace thingamyfluzits that go fizz.
The man is a grown-up, after all.

ZG, how did you get $160?

From this:
380 / 2 = 160

That's how I took this passage - that the cellar uses "one and a half" of three systems, and is thus responsible for half of the total cost of the three.
Dunno, you reckon I've misinterpreted it?

Answer two
 

Selling my ass, naturally. :eek:

Sorry, my mistake.

I was using decimal (380/2 = 190).

A little girl goes in to a bank to deposit a big jar of nickels.

The teller says, "Oh my, little girl, did you hoard all these nickels yourself?"

And the little girls answers, "No. My sister whored half of them."

Guy sends his wife to the street corner because they need cash, badly.

She comes home with $2.10. Hubby says "What cheap bastard gave you a dime?"

"All of 'em" she responds.

You know, I think you might be right there.
Foolishly, I was using a variable-base quasi-logarithmic alternating inverse-power factorialization system.
Decimal would probably have been better. :dunce:

Well much of the cost of the last server was borne by an anonymous Cellar benefactor, but not all of it... nor actually has the Mug produced a surplus for a long time. I just wanted to set the correct place for the mug's 100% level. Anyhoo, it's great that there is now a building surplus fund that will go towards the next failure or the next expansion, whichever comes first. I have ordered four sticks of rather expensive 1GB ECC memory to install into the current server, to try to solve the problem where we basically go offline when we get Farked or Reddited or Dugg.

Ok, I just sent $100. I'm in. I think it would be helpful to make the jar amount larger so the thing does not fill up to quickly; as others have said, I might be more motivated to put some in if I see it is low or empty. Thanks for all you do UT.

And thanks to you and to all Mug hitters. I have not been thanking you all individually, partly because of the volume this Xmas season, and partly because, well you know, I suck. But I am thankful and all should be thankful for everyone's support in keeping the community thriving.

As you know, you guys rock.

Ahem. Bump. Wink. Nudge.

I'd really like to know if it's the same people who donate each month, or if there are different people. I don't need to know names, but I just wondered if there's a trend developing or if there's different people helping out.