Congress Wasting Time & Money
 

Look at the BullShit that Congress is wasting our money on.
Superstition, Bigotry, Hate and the desire to see others continue to suffer because they cannot understand separation of church and state (others in there fly in the face of that as well); as well as their ignorance of how the research is done...
Where is ending hunger, obtaining better and more health care for the needy, helping the US farmers, economic reform, state's rights, etc, etc, etc...?
America does not deserve to last.

Upcoming Congressional Bills -
Senate: Fetus Farming Prohibition Act of 2006
Senate: Alternative Pluripotent Stem Cell Therapies Enhancement Act
Senate: Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act
House: Marriage Protection Amendment
House: Pledge Protection Act
House: U.S.-Oman Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act

Ummmmm...I think support for Stem Cell research is pretty exciting and a good investment, myself. It will probably be Bush's first veto, though.

My friend Ben once wrote a song entitled "Bush-It".

I'll have to look him up.

That is what I am talking about, there is a huge amount of resistance.
Also, the language in the "farming" act cripples any decent stem cell research. They don't want cells cloned or expired invitro cells used, they would rather they be thrown away.:right:
Again, monkeys screaming at science.
History will not be kind to the US during this time and we deserve it.

Arizona Ballot Could Become Lottery Ticket

See? This is why we need to end. We had a good run, but it's over.

But it is still getting some play, I think its a good step. Is raising the issue (granted only for local reelection campaigning use) and challenging the far right position a waste of time and money? its a debate that needs to happen and it might get a push. There's always resistance. I think it may bode well in the longer run.

Of the list of dumb issues addressed, it stands out as potential progress.

That is a good point... my perspective is colored by the responses and votes I get from my reps on that topic as well as the fact that there is a vote right next to it meant to remove as much viability from it as possible by the opposition. Again, "how much can we ensure that as many people as possible suffer and do not benefit from this breakthrough".

I'm going to play devils advocate on this one and prepose that they aren't screaming at science as much as being firmly entrenched in the idea that this is going to get way out of control once you officially allow it. The biggest part of the process that raises peoples blood pressure is the cloning of humans. It does boil down to that at some level even though the idea of embryos-as-humans has been screamed at by abortionists for the last few decades.

IOW emotion - not facts - are only important.

Just had a discussion with a religious extremist. I asked if a gunman was standing right here and shooting 30 people across the parking lot, then what would he do. He said he would pray for the gunman. That prayer hopefully would stop the gunman. I told him he so hated those 30 people as to let them die. If so, it was god's will.

I would physically attack the gunman. He then said that was wrong because I might die. I asked him why he though prayer would do anything. He said that prayer might stop the gunman from shooting the rest of those 30 people.

These are same people opposed to science and research. No wonder Hitler could also brain wash these people into hating races inferior to Aryans. He would pray to god to stop the gunman. He also said evolution could not exist because he just knew. Also called brainwashing. No wonder the Federal Judge found that religious extremists would take an oath on the bible and still outright lie in open court - in violation of the Ten Commandments. And they would still call themselves good religious people? Yes, he even endorsed torture in Guantanamo and saw no relation to the Spanish Inquisition.

Remember these people vote because most centrists do not. These are the people who will even reelect Rick Santorum. History suggest that most member of The Cellar will not vote – therefore approve of leaders who should pray rather than stop the gunman.

wow, ummmm. what the heck are you talking about?:eyebrow:

btw, most people do let emotion rule certain decisions. It would make logical sense in many ways to clone and genetically modify humans so-as to improve ourselves. However, for many people this undermines our basic worth. They don't want to see people viewed as just a strand of DNA.

Which is what we are.... makes no sense.
Some good news.

AMERICANS UNITED APPLAUDS DEFEAT OF FEDERAL MARRIAGE AMENDMENT

House Marriage Vote Was ‘Political Theater,’ Says AU’s Lynn

Americans United for Separation of Church and State lauded today’s defeat of a federal marriage amendment in the U.S. House of Representatives.

The House voted 236 to 187 in favor of H.J.Res. 88, falling short of the two-thirds necessary to advance a constitutional amendment.

“The marriage amendment would have wedded religion and government, and we are delighted it failed to muster enough support in the House,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “This was an unwise attempt to enshrine in the Constitution one religious definition of marriage.”

Lynn noted that a similar amendment was defeated last month in the Senate, thereby making today’s vote irrelevant.

“This was nothing but political theatre,” said Lynn. “The amendment was already dead for this session, following the Senate’s action in June. Today’s vote was a transparent effort by the House leadership to give members running for reelection something to distract voters from unpleasant realities such as the war and energy costs.”

The so-called “Marriage Protection Amendment” was introduced by Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colo.). It declares, “Marriage in the United States shall consist of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution, nor the constitution of any State, shall be construed to require that marriage or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon any union other than the union of a man and a woman.”

Americans United is a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington, D.C. Founded in 1947, the organization educates Americans about the importance of church-state separation in safeguarding religious freedom.

Really?:eyebrow: Carefull with the simplifications there. Just because it's a component doesn't make us lumps of DNA

But we *are* just lumps of DNA. What these butt-scootching morons seem to be unable to grasp is that we are greater than the sum of our parts. Our physical composition no more defines us as aware entities than the presence of a carburetor defines an object as a Buick Skylark.

Whether we evolved or were designed makes no difference in the end. We are what we are. It is my enduring hope that we end up not being defined by those whom we let make the rules. Oh, we're still responsible, I just hope we aren't considered *like* them...

Let me say that again... "butt-scootching".

I'm stealing that.

You dare question the basic function of the US Congress? :eek:

So many of the issues swirling in and out of debate in congress are purely serving as a base to point fingers in the upcoming election, pure and simple. Except, in the last serveral years, I've noticed that more of the hot button issues like gay marriage and proposals of a religious nature swamp the news and voter opinion polls so heavily that they successfully push all of the genuine issues from the media. In the last presidential election, I heard more argument and debate involving gay marriage than anything involving the war or the constitution. The more congress debates emotional issues that the public has a tough time ignoring, the more people simply accept the changes taking place in basic law and world policy. Talk of the Iraq war, The PATRIOT Act, geneva convention violations, wiretapping issues, etc, are repeatedly pushed from the spotlight until people begin to shrug and say things like, "the government was probably already doing it, anyway", "this bit of bad is probably part of a bigger picture we don't see and goals we cannot comprehend", and "these small changes in policy don't affect me or my family, directly."

Everytime a truly threatening, major issue comes up, some local lawmaker proposes some bullshit law that "defines/protects American values" (marriage), tackles an old issue that has been a problem for many years (illegal immigration), or puts some other petty shit that is blatantly unconstitutional (flag desecration law). The hotly emotional issue is thrust into the spotlight and possibly to the supreme court while smaller changes are descretely made and the public turns their heads from massive global issues. They're boiling a frog, here.

Really, don't you think the public has become unusually comfortable in recent years with a war that will never end, CIA/NSA domestic spying, and a government and military above the law? Don't let any of those issues distract you from the huge percentage of the population that is threatening the tiny minority of christians in this country with their efforts to "ban" prayer from public schools.

Quick, we must stop sexual predators from hurting your children. Section 606 of the bill introduces an interesting law:

When was the last time you looked at the religious demographics in the US??? The majority of Americans identify themselves as some denomination of Christianity.

Shh -- I was being sarcastic, there.

damn. sarcasm meter must've broke. I've gotta stop buying Chinese surplus:p

I am a religious right winger , and I would shoot the gunman and then pray for him. Saving the lives of others is most important thing you can do.

Good & so what, separation of church and state is still a foundation of this nation.

Most christians are not looking to turn other people into defacto converts by writing the religion into law. However, when things come up for vote they vote based on principles that are not part of the doctrine of their church. Most of these principles are not unique to any religion and can be brought to the voters box without any mingling of church and state. take the first commandment for example "Thou shall not kill". Even though it's placement in the religion should rule it out for use in law, we allow it to be used because we understand that it is rediculous to suggest that telling people we don't tolerate murder is the same forcing them to follow Christianity. Before screaming that Christians are trying to convert everyone else try checking up on where the principle in question fits into the larger picture.

The "Christian" Church teaches all sorts of things things that have nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, and the "Christians" vote, based on that. It isn't technically Christianity, but they believe it is right because they heard it in a Christian Church.

Um, no. Separation of church and state isn't "if a religion agrees then you can't do it." It's perfectly OK for a religion to agree with a law, it just can't be the sole justification.

No, "Christians" vote all over the spectrum of possibilities. No one could ever count on the "Christian" vote.... ask any politician. :headshake

I think you know what I mean.

I didn't say they vote exclusively "based on that."

:::sings::: words put in my mouth, with your ass-u-ming, these are a few of my of my least favorite things

EDIT: :stickpoke

No, you didn't say exclusively. You also didn't say, partially. You just said I believe you said that, because you want to reinforce your position that anyone that belongs to a church is a robot, that does what they're told and can't disagree with anything the church suggests...... or think for themselves.
Am I wrong? :question:

Yes.

9th Engineer commented that Christian values often overlap with secular values, and suggested that this presents a difficulty in separation of the two. I added that there is an inherent blurriness within the scope of Christian values that makes this separation an impossibility before you even cross over from one side to the other. In other words, Christian values are not well-defined enough to be contrasted against an opposing set.

Old English law overlaps with American law. Therefore we should promote English law?

A society where god is found in science, math, and other studies of god's law is also a society that can select from historical lessons only that which works and is appropriate. Christian values are flawed in that those values are somehow written in stone - cannot change as other men learn more of god's laws. Christian values are perverted because they are introverted. Mankind takes from Christian values, Muslim values, René Decartes, Buddist values, Aristotle, science discoveries, legal principles, Chinese philosophy, mistakes from history, etc to create American values.

What is fundamental to American values and what is so foreign to Christian values? Innovation. Everything that defines a patriotic American is about innovation. Christian values would still have us claiming a sun goes around the earth and the moon is self illuminating.

One early principle that became part of American values are the reason why the Ten Commandments worked. American values don't worship the Ten Commandments. American values respect principles that made Ten Commandments a new Constitution for that early human society. We also don't worship Greek philosophy and their gods. But we take and learn from their lessons as well. American values are about innovation - how we worship the real god.

Wow, a coherent and almost brilliant post, from tw of all people!

Yeah, he does that once in awhile. It's always a pleasure. :D

Oh - a new post! Wait a minute . . . nevermind.