Library Internet Porno
 

Hey, I'm no prude, and I've looked at my share of internet porn, but what's up with these guys (mostly) who come into our libraries and just look at porno without any reagard to anyone? I feel a bit torn about this because I'm all for an open society, and I think America's weird obsession with sexuality actually is the reason we have situations like this. As I write this this dude two feet away is just scrolling through lurid pictures of naked women, vagina close-ups, huge boobs in living color.

Aren't libraries great? Lot's o' learning going on the 26 internet terminals here. Mostly kids playing games and porno heads. And 1 cellarite.:neutral:

I work at a library, and we get tons of those guys. Normally we ask them to leave... If they're not being discreet about it. I know we've got a few who decided to add their own... ah... sound effects.

There was a thread in another board, I'll try to find it, about repeat masturbaters in libraries.
Apparently, it is a nationwide problem and the penalty is not to be banned, which AMAZES me.

Viewing porn in a library and masturbating in a library are two separate things.

But both are disturbing.

The article I read was both at the same time. They interviewed him with his family, the father hit the cameraman.
The PC was next to the kid's area.

Damn I'm tempted to play devil's advocate on this...

Dan Savage in his column Savage Love addressed a similar issue a while back. What this amounts to is the viewer is making the public unwilling participants in his or her sex life.

And most of us know what unwilling participation in someone"s sex life amounts to.

A really bad analogy?

There is "another" side to not allowing people to view porn & jack-off in the library? At least that was my contribution to this.
It is not allowed at my local library, exposing yourself is definitely not, and I KNOW masturbation is not.
Ban from the PCs, for life.

???

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=25851

Here is the article I was refering to. I see the behaviour discussed here as being analogous to library porn viewing.

maybe I'm wrong and you can point out where I missed something.

I'd put indecent exposure and rape in extremely separate categories. If that's not what "most of us know what unwilling participation in someone"s sex life amounts to" then I apologize.

No apology needed. They are in different categories, and my statement was ambiguous. Both generally under the heading of "Wrong" and "Unwanted"

Rape and indecent exposure are very different in their extremes, but from the little I know about the psychology behind both of them, neither is about sexual gratification as much as power over another person.

Porn is usually about sexual gratification (despite the feminist point of view that it subjugates women and treats them as 'objects'), hence the example relating to savage love's column.

Our resident psych experts may be willing to weigh in on the pyschological underpinnings of "sex crimes". I'm out of my league.

I think that bringing other people into your sexual game without their consent is wrong and that's how I see watching porn in the library. It isn't a violent assault on another person's physical self, but still may be uwanted.

Having interviewed a number of sexual predators, the answer is "There is evil loose in the world."

What is "porn" anyway?
 

The latest Utne Reader has a piece on our nation's growing porn culture; it's mostly a rehash of some recent books on the subject. But it got me thinking. A divorce lawyer said internet porn is bustin up a lot of marriages; typically, the man is surfing porn and gets "caught" by the wife. She then assumes that he does not find her attractive, or that there is something "wrong" with their sex life, etc.

Two-dimentional, moving or still images of people or persons in various states of undress or complete nakedness...blah blah blah...with the intent to arouse...blah blah blah...genitalia...blah blah...:neutral:

I'm really divided here. Part of me says "mind your own business, what are you looking over people's shoulders for, anyway? If it's legal to view, it's legal to view in a library."

But we've almost gotten to the point where the concept of decency has completely left the building. We're more worried about the theoretical rights of phantom third parties than we are about the people in the library RIGHT NOW. Your 7-year-old might have the image of goatse burned into her retinas for the rest of her life, but at least some random guy didn't feel suppressed by the evil claw of fascism. fapfapfap.

:lol: This thread has me all excited!

Get thee to a library!

:p

Left the building...
 

I felt confused too. But it's important to note that I was not shoulder surfing, I just looked over to my right and saw all these "girls gone wild" pictures. It seemed they were being e-mailed to him because in between each viewing he started typing.

I had not seen those tubgirl and goatse pics, but I found descriptions of them on Wickipedia. Oh, and that fetus/abortion blog. Hard to tell if that isn't just a fake blog to make some points.:neutral:

Despite it being a charming little movie "blast form the past" had a nice definition of "manners": good manners are just a way of showing other people we have respect for them.

If nothing else, watching internet porn is a library is tacky and bad manners.

&, again, against the rules (at least in every library I have read about when reading about this issue and at my local library in every state and town I have lived in, & that is no small number). Self-exposure is still against the law.
Until that changes, these rules need to be enforced.
If you won't follow the rules, you don't get to use the facilities.
End of story.

One of the reasons I like Wolf so much is that she doesn't mince words. She does, however, dress them nicely, daub on a little makeup, and force them to dance for their supper.

That works in most public place cases.
If you don't like the rules, get 'em changed. But in the meantime, if you break 'em, you pay the price.

Disclaimer ~ ONLY public places...in my own home, take your rules and .......;)

Whoa! Hold on...
 

I don't think most people would argue with that, and fresh ejaculate on the floor or keyboard would be a form of littering, albeit one worthy of Onan.

The issue here is:

Does one have the "right" to look at pornography at a public library that provides access to the internets? It's a yes or no question.

The ALA has pretty much concurred that they are against censorship, so the porno watchers remain ubiquitous, at least in the many libraries I go to. I know one library in MA that put the monitors below a transparent desk surface to promote privacy, but I think there is something to be said for communal observation as a sort of control; some porno watchers will cease when they see other people grimace and whince at their chosen internet fare.:neutral:

I went and bought a computer so I could surf porn sites. Mrs. fargon and I surf porn together.:love: :lovers:

I have never understood the attraction of porn, but I grew up in a religious family and was taught to honor myself and my body by not being promiscuous or exposing myself. I try to refrain from judgement though, its a person's private choice. Sex in public and indecent exposure are illegal for a reason, they infringe on other peoples rights. Looking at porn in a library isn't indecently exposing yourself but is showing people who are indecent, others have the right not to look but sometimes a person can't help glancing over. Also children should not be exposed to that, and there is a big chance that they would be in that setting.

Decent
 

Can I assume that, while you may not be able to define "indecent," you know what it is when YOU see it?:neutral:

Censorship and this issue have nothing to do with each other.
You are welcome to look at porn in the privacy of your home any time you wish.

Censorial
 

Evidently, I can look at it at my public library too; albeit when they are open.:neutral:

I wouldn't say censorship has "nothing" to do with the issue. If my library removed Huck Finn from the shelves because it had the "N" word, wouldn't that be censorship. How is that different than putting filtering software on their internets computers?

Which got me thinking. I think they DO use filtering software; that's why that guy was getting his porn pics through e-mail rather than going to an actual porn site. Pretty smart.:neutral:

Unless you're reading out loud, others do not usually "accidentally" get a peek at the page. A computer screen is notably more obtrusive.

I agree with the "porn at home" folks More power to ya! :) What the hell do we need people jacking off at the public library for? Following your logic...making people wear clothing in public is censorship. Hey, maybe we're on to something here.

Geez
 

Really, folks, I'm just asking the question. Should or should not library patrons be allowed to look at what is deemed by the Chief Librarian as "porn" on their public internet terminals?

I hear a resounding "No" from many of you, but I don't see libraries really doing anything about it.

Maybe that's how they do it; they wait for a complaint from the "No" camp of library patrons and then tell the person "Please desist.":neutral:

I'm not saying "no." I'm conflicted.

I'm against censorship in libraries, but I also don't want to be seeing that. It's a sticky* situation.


*:sadsperm:

Conflictions
 

I'm conflicted too.

Where I went to college, we had this big library that had aisles that overlooked a big study area, kinda like a big atrium. One year we had this mad masterbator dude who would go up to the edge of the aisle, choose an unfortunate female student, and start whacking away until...

:sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm: :sadsperm:

And then it would fall, hurtling through space to land on the desk, notebook, or hair of the ill-fated student. I can't even imagine the feeling of the latter, looking up to see the grinning Onanist dash off; and he made sure to let the victims of his splooge attacks see him. After the third time they caught him.:neutral:

That's assault.

Viewing pornographic material in a place where others are subject to it without their consent, is assault.

I don't see the correlation between assault and censorship.

BTW, what's up with the "geez"? I thought we WERE having a conversation about this topic.

OK then...no, people should not be allowed to gratify their sexual needs in a public library. I don't want to see their porn. I don't want to see them screwing their wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, husband...whatever. I don't want to be subjected to their privates. I don't need their spooge in places I can come into contact with it. Shall I go on?

Finally
 

Thanks Shawnee. That's what I was looking for; a definitive statement.

But would you allow a patron to look at, say, pictures of famous 19th-Century French nude paintings? In other words, is it the images or the intent of the viewer (sexual gratification) that is more important? If I were doing a research paper on pornography in libraries in a library, would my viewing of the same still be "assault?":neutral:

You make an interesting point. Though I think I know the difference between smut and art (and I have high respect for both), my art may be another's smut. My smut may be high art to some.

I could say that we could draw the line and say a 19th century nude painting doesn't have people sweating, grunting, saying "give it to me baby...harder, you $#@#$ why don't you @#%$# me in the &*%$ you $#@#$. OHHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHHHH."

But again, I am assuming that those things wouldn't be art to anyone.

Rats, now I'm boggled.:)

One time I saw this kid in a public library, breathing really hard and obviously very worked up and excited, looking at...

...

...pictures of fires in a firefighting magazine.

True story, and I could not be more creeped out, but what're ya gonna do?

Should they take the Glamours off the shelves when George Costanza walks in?

Why don't you %$#@!!!!
 

:biglaugha

:biglaugha

I usually use only the neutral emoticon, but you guys cracked me up.

Thanks.

Oh. BTW, Shawnee, what is &*%$ ?

You couldn't view that kind of material with the library system back home

from here

According to the policy, the reason for this is the CIPA and NICA
No porn for you!

I wonder if that excuse'll fly with the school?

Ridiculous
 

Good sleuthing, bbro. So now we see the legal roots for banning porn in public libraries.

But after reading that, I am more convinced than ever that the whole notion of "protecting" kids from "indecency" in a library is ridiculous. Think of it; a LIBRARY! A place filled with books and magazines describing and illustrating all of the world's indecencies. Who judges what's "obscene?" What about the covers of magazines like Cosmo or a Time cover with W. on it? Now THAT'S obscene.

I grew up in a town that had one of the first comprehensive recycling centers in the nation. On Sundays, me and my friend Stuart would enter the closed facility through the woods on the back side and head toward the big green dumpsters labeled MAGAZINES. And when it came to finding good porn, my friend Stuart had the "green" thumb for sure. I always found some Playboys, but he could plunge his hand through copies of Redbook, Good Housekeeping, and Cat Fancy, and come up with a Penthouse or a Hustler. It was like magic.

And look at me today? Was I "harmed" by those magazines? Uhhhh.....I better not answer that one...:redface:

Thank you. I knew there was something there - man, it was buried! I personally don't mind the restrictions. I don't want to see that when I am trying to read my email! Let alone the little kids that are walking around! In my head, a membership to the library (which you needed to use the computers) was a privilege, not a right. It could be revoked, I was always respectful and aware of the people around me. I didn't even open the WTF NSFW thread there because the amount of kids at the branch I frequented.

But, that is just me.

WTF
 

Yeah, bbro, I'm still conflicted. In the abstract I see pornography as just a concept, a word used to describe particular types of pictures and moving images. But the whole reason I started this thread was because it bothered me.

Which makes me a hypocrite, I suppose. Well, maybe not, because I did not complain to the librarian.

But really, you should see this one branch of our library system on Saturday morning; it's all young Black men either watching porn or listening to gangsta rap. They listen to the latter at such a high volume that, despite the fact they use headphones, the environment is anything but library-like. I miss the old blue-haired woman who says "Shoosh!":neutral:

I still don't understand why they are just watching porn at a library. Clarify me if you can but I have always been under the impression that porn is used to give an image or work up the imagination for masturbation.
Although the public is allowed access to the library at my college, it is still not allowable to be looking at porn. I didn't feel at all self conscious about using a pic of David and then of a streaker in a powerpoint I did recently, BUT I knew that my audience was an open minded proffessor and that the classmates should be mature enough to understand the meaning and joke i was using without getting offended. But the audience of these public porn surfers, unitended or not, are very likely to be offended. I've seen my share of porn, but I would be shocked and offended if I saw it without my consent, even a glance because images have a huge impact on a person. Also the possible presence of children would make me even more upset. My mother took me and my siblings to the library all the time when I was young (I was reading before kindergarten) and she relied on the library to provide a safe enviroment for her children to be in. Although she didn't leave us to wander on our own, its still possible we could have come across the porn surfers at the computers located in various areas of the library and she would most certainly be offended by that. They give ratings on the back of a movie and they also tell what the content is that caused that rating such as nudity, sexual content or violence. This is so that you know what is in your movie and you can choose not to watch it if it will offend you. The public porn surfers violate this idea.

I miss the "Shoosh"-ers too. They gave me candy.

Certainly not all libraries have enough money to have separate children's rooms, but most I've been to do. The adult portion of the library is upstairs, and the kid's is downstairs. Teenagers would be using the adult section, but little kids wouldn't. My point is that an adult wouldn't be surfing porn in the kid's section, and kids would rarely be in the adult section.

But I still don't want to see anyone surfing porn in a library.

Not all libraries are this big. The one that I mentioned above with a lot of schoolkids running around was really small. Only one floor. I saw more kids in that library than adults.

Edited:

Sorry, I just read the first sentance of your quote and realized that is what you said:smack:. My bad:redface:......is it friday yet??

Rude & Ill-mannerd
 

The library I mentioned is located in one of the more shabby areas of Atlanta, right down the street from the County pen. It's the County's Audio Visual library, and has one of the best collections of CDs, videos, and DVDs I've ever encountered. But like Atlanta itself, it has a very strange racial divide. 8 times out of 10 that I'm there, I'm the only White person. The library is in a rather sketchy area of town, right near the County pen and adjacent to the Cynthia McKinney Highway. Most of the patrons are young AAs, and most have little regard for those "classic" rules of manners that most of (I assume) us grew up with. Most also have no interest in Almodovar movies or Oscar Peterson CDs. They are there to use the internet because they don't own a computer, and it's been my observation that their internet surfing relates to the most base interests; and let's be honest, we all have those.

As I noted before, much of the porn I inadvertenly see consists of pictures of naked women SENT to the surfer. Why so many women send nekkid pictures of themselves to random guys is beyond me. Lots of internet dating sites mimic porn sites it seems. I don't even go to the Main Branch of the Atlanta Library because it's a flop house for the areas homeless population; you take a seat to read something and then it's "What's that smell?":greenface

There is a way around that sofware... there are sites set-up, specifically, to get around it.
Does your library carry Jugs, Hustler, & Penthouse? I doubt it.
Which is why their accounts are canceled when they are caught...In a world with BRAINS!:smack:

?

Some people have good memories, I suppose.

Or they could nip off to the bathroom.

This may explain why our library forbids sending/receiving email at its computers. I always wondered why.

Not everyone has an internet connection at home. And not everything has to end in full masturbation, otherwise men wouldn't bother to look at cute women on the street.

I just thought that that was the purpose of porn gazing...and why not get a magazine if no internet connection. Aparently its fairly easy to find them in a dumpster...my b/f said his first mag came from the beside the neighbor's trash can.

It's just kind of a shame that a library can't be a safe place for everyone. We used to take field trips to the public library when we were kids so we could write book reports and stuff. I'd head straight for the section with the ocean stuff -- Jacques Cousteau books with sharks and diving bells and stuff like that.

It was an innocent time (mostly -- some necking in the elevator), and I hate to think that the new generation is missing out on it because we're so afraid of infringing on the rights of people who are out for salacious thrills.

Of course, if we had known there was porn available, there wouldn't have been any vacant computers left for the perverts.