Texas parents don't like nude sculpture
 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/4214639.html

This caught my eye especially because of that trip to the Metropolitan Museum I took with my daughter (that was when the picture of me with the sphinx over in the dwellar photo thread was taken). The point of going was to see a special ancient Egypt exhibit that was only there through the end of June. However, once we were there, we went around some of the rest of the museum. And we saw several examples of Greek statues of nude males. It was very amusing because of my daughter's reaction. Revulsion would not, I believe, be too strong a word. I do not, however, believe any psychological trauma was induced. (By the statues, I mean. The cab ride back to Penn Station? That could be another story.)

I, for one, am very disappointed that pictures of the offending statues were not posted, with suitable warnings, so that the readers could make their own decision as to whether this is, or is not porn.

Show of hands ... who immediately thought of the Simpson's episode where Marge gets her panties in a bunch over Michelangelo's David?

I've never understood why all the greek scultpures, even the ones that are supposedly 'ideal' representations, all have, like, micropenii.

For the artist's self-esteem.

For the audiences' self-esteem?

Lots of 'em broken off. Just be glad that doesn't happen to real flesh.

Wait a minute....big headline;
Following that 10 paragraphs saying she was being canned(not renewed) after 28 years of teaching because of this trip.
Then it says;Well, which is it?
Is the teacher trying to build a case for the trip being the cause of her trouble, in advance of the written report?
Is this just media sensationalism, Texas style?
Or is the school board covering their butt after being stupid?
:confused:

Of course it's impossible to tell from the outside. But apparently she's taught there for 28 years and they never failed to renew her contract before. That doesn't make the incompetence issue impossible, but it sure makes it look odd. Also, she has been put on administrative leave with pay for the remainder of the school year. Those must be some hellaciously bad lesson plans.

Nobody denies, however, that at least one parent did complain, and that the principal did get on her case about it. They're just denying that that's why she was put on leave and her contract not renewed.

Man, I hate hearing about shit like this happening in Texas. We're not all this way!

I saw something this morning that made me think of this thread, now for the life of me I can't find it. It was an article about a teacher in China who stripped for her students. I think she got fired or suspended, too.

I think I would prefer the nekkid sculptures

Edit to add:

Found it!! cnn

Actually, it's pretty hard for a school to do alot to a teacher who's slacking off unless a big incident happens they can nail them for. That's probably the case here, the school might have been looking for an excuse to can her that wouldn't get them sued by the teachers union (bastards), this just happened to be their opportunity whether it was related to the original problem or not. We had a few teachers in my highschool that the board probably wanted to give the boot to but couldn't.

Uh, sex is bad, m'kay?

If a nuke body is a problem, then you have no business being into art. Nudity was normal for man. Who are these people so harmed by nude art? Therefore when they see blood, these same people also die of fright? Nonsense. Nudity is normal for art - especially ancient art. Nudity was considered beauty before irrational fears were imposed by religious extremism. Its art - no different with or without clothes.

If nudity is so harmful, then stop studying art.

Hair, hair, hair hair, hair, hair hair
Flow it, show it
Long as God can grow it My hair
Let it fly in the breeze
And get caught in the trees
Give a home to the fleas in my hair
A home for fleas
A hive for bees
A nest for birds
There ain't no words
For the beauty, the splendor, the wonder
Of my...
Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair

Back then, even long hair was somehow evil, corrupt, godless ...

Its only nudity - a completely normal event that harms no one.

I have a fear of people who equate nudity with sex.
I think of them as perverts.

Whatever religion attempts to repress only festers beneath the surface, becoming something worse.

Now, why would you say that?

I actually, though a 100% union supporter, have some sympathy for that position. As I was growing up, the degree of union alignment seemed directly proportional to the degree of crappiness of a teacher. An obvious reason for this is that a teachers' union is designed to benefit teachers, not students, and therefore they make it difficult to fire teachers. As a result, bad teachers may find that vocal union support is easier than improving their teaching.

But the fact is that teachers get royally shafted on a consistent basis. They need union representation and, what's more, they need union representation that is made up of royal bastards if they're not going to be run roughshod over in every negotiation. And even with this situation, it's a myth that bad teachers can't be fired. They can be. There's a process defined in every union negotiation. What really stops bad teachers from being fired isn't the union process, it's the fact that the principal has no reason to believe that the next person will be any better, so they stick with the devil they know.

I hate hearing ppl blaming religion for radical behavior. It is not always the religion in of itself that represses certain human behaviors. It is the humans who interpret that religion that do the repression. The Christian Bible for example says one should treat their body as a temple; meaning you should respect yourself. But that doesn't mean it is saying that showing the human body is bad. ADAM AND EVE WERE NAKED!!! It was after they ate the apple and sinned that they were ashamed of being naked. GOD gave humans sex for pleasure and procreation, otherwise sex wouldn't be pleasurable, although the Bible does restrict sex, labling many things sexually immoral (I.E. incest).
Unfortunatly many "Christians" interpret this differently. I love my sister for being a smart, logical and insightful Christian and teaching me to think the same way about things...but not necessarily thinking the same things as her.

That's what religion is. People's interpretations. That's why there are Catholics and Protestants.

Yeah...politics.

How come I've been hearing my whole life that sex is "Original Sin", then? And that it is only okay within the bonds of "Holy Matrimony"?

Did I miss a new interpretation somewhere?

I've subbed during a strike with a COMPLETELY clear conscience. Kids come first, at ALL times. (no BS about the "long-run, either)

These are the definitions that a search at dictionary.com came up with

I am using definition #2: a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

I know that religion is shaped by people's interpretation, but most religions are based in a text which gives the guidlines for the religion. THAT is what religion is. Guidelines or "a specific fundamental set of beliefs or practices."

Catholics and Protestants started with the same text. Then there was a schism based on differing interpretations. There are hundreds of religions based on the Bible, but with different interpretations. Things that are fundamental in one may not be in another.

What can I say, I'm a realist. We could theorize "what religion is" all day long. Then, there is reality . . . (IE, thousands of years of human history)

You didn't miss a new interpretation...you were taught a very misguided interpretation. It is considered sin outside marriage, I don't refute that. If it was sin why would God make it our means of procreation and why would He make it pleasurable so that we would want to? For ALL creatures, other than A-sexual reproducers. Well only humans and dolphins have sex for pleasure but thats irrevalent.

Catholics and Protestants are STILL Christians! Christianity is a religion. NOT Catholism that is a branch of Christianity. Islam is a religion, Sunni and Shi'a are branches of Islam. ANY religion based on the Bible is essentially, by definition Christian!

I think we're all pretty well-informed on the subject...

And which religion is screwing that art teacher in China? :confused:

China is a communist country and therefore technically aethiest...

The why the fuck are we talking about religion?:eyebrow:

Because I felt a need to respond to this statement

From there it just became a topic

why we are talking about religion:
 

It was the natural course for a discussion based this: a parent complained about a student seeing nude art

(When is this kind of thing not caused by religion?)

Well you already have the counterexample of the teacher in China. But I'll add that it is never caused by religion. It is caused by prudes who use religion as an excuse to restrict people from seeing something they're afraid of.

I'm Christian and at the same time just fine with naked bodies thank-you-very-much.

Then why do dogs hump legs? ;)

When its caused by a parent who signs the permission slip without first being sure that they will really approve.

And when ppl become irrational about their beliefs, which I will admit seems to happen often with the "religious." They ignore the parts of their doctrine that aren't convenient for them. IE
Leviticus 19:18 (New International Version)
18 " 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
Its not the religion itself that causes the problem, but those who only follow the convenient parts of the doctrine. How many Christians do you know who would allow themselves to be condemed for being Christian? And YET that is a major part of the doctrine...else Jesus could have avoided the cross.

I wasn't really discussing that, but, at a glance, let's see, I believe that is a teacher that stripped in front of her class, right? I'm sorry, I don't see the connection. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. A teacher stripping in front of her class has nothing whatsoever to do with a teacher taking her students to an art museum. Apples, oranges.

When is "this kind of thing" (meaning: a problem with nude art) not caused by religion? Please note: I am not asking whether it is mandatory for religion to have this effect, but rather, when it does happen, when is it not religion causing it?

See my second point.

Maybe "casued by" is overly restrictive, in a semantic sense. Rephrase: if you removed religion from the equation, would it still be happening? Another way: would this be happening without the involvement of religion? You yourself have stated the cause as being involved with religion. My point (sorry if I garbled it) was simply that.

I'm not big on hair-splitting between "religion, ideally" and "religion, in practice" - as I said, I'm a realist. When I say religion, I assume everyone knows that I am referring to the actual thing that exists in the world.

Perfect example, finely stated. When I say "religion" I mean ^these people^ (the majority, in my anecdotal observation...)

hmmm...good question...perhaps they do it for pleasure as well. Most of its just an overwhelming instinct, and normally my male dog is fine unless there is a bitch in heat on the street. I've always heard that only humans and dolphins do it for fun...but maybe I'll look it up some more.

"These people" though are NOT the religion and that has been my point. I respect the Christian and Islamic and other such doctrines but I mostly don't respect those who "follow" the doctrine.

Look up: bonobo chimps.

I don't think that I could be fascinated enough with another animal to actually study its sexual activity. But then again I'm not into porn either perhaps thats somehow connected.

makes me think of sword fencing....

I understand, and we disagree. As I said, I'm a realist, and I'm not discussing ideal religion but actual religion.

(IE what people are doing with religion is religion...)

And that makes me terrible sad, angry and confused. Just know that not all people are like that about religion. Thank God I have my sister.

I do know that, and I never said anything to the contrary. I know many people who consider themselves religious which I have no problem with. I enjoy having cordial discussions about the message of Jesus, who I think was great. To be specific, this is what I have been trying to say (not very well, I guess): #1 not all religious people have nudity-phobia, but #2 when a person does have this psychological disorder, I propose that religion (the actual thing, not the theoretical thing) is at the base of the issue. Is that more clear?

I guess I just defer and think that it is the idiotic misuse of the religion that causes the problem that all...truce?

I agree 100% with that. But I add: "idiotic misuse of the religion" is the norm, not the exception.

True /cry /roleupundercoversandnevercomeoutagainIhateppl

:::smacks you::: cut that shit out (unless you have a laptop under there)

LOL not a laptop, but a book and a flashlight! You don't think my mother will come take my book away and tell me to go to sleep like she used to when I was younger do you?

I meant: a laptop, so you can keep posting at The Cellar!

hmmm I guess I'll have to carry my blanket to the dining room and just cover me and the computer with it...but I will still read under the covers.

Dogs hump as a part of pack activity, to show dominance.

When I had two dogs, they would hump when people were around, because that's when they had to sort out their pack order.

Naturally, a dog with a rather dominant personality will hump new people that enter the house. They are trying to assess where the new pack member ranks. If the new pack member allows the humping they are submissive and lower on the pack order.

A naturally submissive dog will crouch their hind end down to strangers and may even pee to show they are low on the totem pole.

Those Bonobo monkeys have got it going on!

humping dogs, swingin' bonobos
 

And that's what we would be doing too (without religion to save us from ourselves...)

:biglaugha

Not all Christans would agree with you. Some Baptists don't think Catholics are Christian, for example. And some branches of Christianity are different enough to be considered different religions, not just sects. Mormonism comes to mind.

Wait...Catholicism a branch of Christianity?

Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the root of all Christianity (that exists today). The majority of Christian practices in the USA are "Catholic-Lite" (meaning Catholicism minus the parts they found inconvenient). If anything, "Christianity" is a "branch" of Catholicism.