New poll shows that 6 in 10 Iraqi's support attacks on US military
 

Guess what? The man on the street in Iraq does not like the US and wants us to go away! So much for the great "liberation" of Iraq. What a stunning surprise! Here's some snips from a highly interesting public opinion poll that came out today:
(http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi...t=250&lb=hmpg1)

A new WPO poll of the Iraqi public finds that seven in ten Iraqis want US-led forces to commit to withdraw within a year. An overwhelming majority believes that the US military presence in Iraq is provoking more conflict than it is preventing and there is growing confidence in the Iraqi army. If the US made a commitment to withdraw, a majority believes that this would strengthen the Iraqi government. Support for attacks on US-led forces has grown to a majority position—now six in ten. Support appears to be related to a widespread perception, held by all ethnic groups, that the US government plans to have permanent military bases in Iraq.

Support for US withdrawal appears to be derived from a widespread perception that the presence of US-led forces is having a net negative effect on the situation in Iraq. Large numbers say that the US military presence is “provoking more conflict than it is preventing.” This view is held by 78 percent overall

Confidence in the US military is quite low. Eighty-four percent say they have little (22%) or no (62%) confidence in the US military. An extraordinary 98 percent of Sunnis take this view (no confidence 85%, a little 13%) as do 91 percent of Shias (no confidence 66%, a little 25%). However a majority of Kurds—55%—express confidence in the US military (some 37%, a lot 18%), while 45 percent do not express confidence (no confidence 17%, a little 28%

Support for attacks against US-led forces has increased sharply to 61 percent (27% strongly, 34% somewhat). This represents a 14-point increase from January 2006, when only 47 percent of Iraqis supported attacks.

Damn "democracy" haters! :eyebrow:

Speaks for itself.

All ethnic groups? How about all thinking persons in or out of Iraq? Our "embassy" is larger than the Vatican.

It says the WPO is financed by good, honest, non-profit organizations dedicated to the advancement of mankind.

For example, Calvert Foundation serves as a facility for individual and institutions seeking to channel investment into disadvantaged communities with a simple goal -- to help end poverty.

What speaks for itself? That MaggieL was a member of the Michigan Militia - complete with advocating torture and even denying the Geneva Convention? Was the Geneva Convention also some evil communist plot? Why is Bill & Melinda Gates and the Hewlett Foundation also not listed as enemies of MaggieL?

WPO poll in Iraq confirms what honest reporters have been reporting for years. A trend posted in The Cellar years ago. A problem made only worse when a lying president did nothing for seven months - did nothing to plan for the peace.

JEHT Foundation: Its name stands for the core values that underlie the Foundation's mission: Justice, Equality, Human dignity and Tolerance. The Foundation's programs reflect these interests and values.

Clearly another organization dedicated to the destruction of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and MaggieL. No wonder she so fears the Ford Foundation.

MaggieL - your pettycoat is showing.

Really? Please elaborate. Don't tell me it's because AEI or AIPAC aren't included.

Like Junior, MaggieL is in a constant State of Denial.

Just to add to tw's list, the Rockefeller's Brother's Foundation describes itself as "a philantropic organization working to promote social change that contributes to a more just, sustainable, and peaceful world."

Sounds like a bunch of Commies to me.

Get real, Maggie. The Iraqi's hate us and for good reason, too.

The whole "findings" are some pretty shaky ground as far as I am concerned. A poll of 1,150 people.. out of a population of 26,783,383 (July 2006 est.) can hardly say that it is representative of all Iraqis.
I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I'm saying the poll is horse sh*t and can't be broadly applied to the entire nation like that website is trying to do.

(population figure comes from the CIA website: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/iz.html )

Just because you disagree with the results, doesn't make a poll wrong. Poll takers often use a sample size of 1,000 to 2,000 people. What counts is accuracy, not quantity. If you read the information under "Methods" in the link I gave in my OP, you will see that WPO went to great effort to pick a random sampling that included all Iraq's major ethnic groups and urban areas as well as rural ones.

The bias of the backers of this outfit is what's really showing. It's a mill to generate custom poll results useful to liberals. With the right questions and sample you can "prove" any proposition you like.

And just becuase you like the results doesn't make it right.

Imagine what would have been the result if the same kind of questions had been asked of Sunnis about attacks on Shiites, and vice versa.

Then your news sources must be dominated by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and other disciples of propaganda. Those findings only confirm what reports said even in 2003. Where have you been all these years? Listening to a lying president, or instead talking to honest Americans.

Why does every US general who served in Iraq and who is now retired say things that agree with that poll? Why was this post of 9 September 2003 so accurate? Or from Jun 2005 Violate such well proven principles and the population will despise its military occupiers. How many times must it happen in history before you concede? That poll only confirms again what history teaches.

24 May 2004: Nov 2004: Seven months of doing nothing - even denying that looting was ongoing as was predicted. What do you think would be the Iraqi opinion of Americans? Iraq was so dangerous for Americans two years ago that Americans never traveled outside the Green Zones without military escort. Instead you deny what was so obvious and confirmed by another poll? Do you also believe George Jr is honest and the moon is made of green cheese?

From The Economist of 1 Jan 2005: Good Morning Vietnam. Posted on 12 Dec 2005: Ten months ago, xoxoxoBruce notes that "Nothing unites a country like a common enemy." Bullitt - maybe you would like to support your doubts with some facts?

There's a good chance they'd support those attacks too. So?

Call me crazy but a relatively stable dictatorship (even one as terrible as Sadam's) sounds quite a bit more appealing than a "democracy" in the throes of civil war. Given this I can easily imagine 6 of 10 Iraqis hating us something bad.

Yeah, whether you agree with the premise of altering Iraq's government, or not, it's pretty hard to deny Bush and Rumsfeld screwed the pooch on this mission. Clearly not thought through and planned properly. :(

Wow TW, hope you get a colonoscopy soon cause you've got something wayyy up your ass (probably Bush's entire cabinet). If you reread my post again, I stated that I don't disagree with the results (hear that mari?). I said that I think a poll that is going to be applied over a population of millions ought to have a larger pool of people polled.

And just for the record, I do not support the war. I think the amount of resources we used could have made a much bigger difference in somewhere like.. Darfur, just as an example.

I agree with you fully bruce

You mean like America 150 years ago? And "more appealing" to who? If by more appealing you mean a smaller blip on your personal radar screen then maybe you are right. If you mean more appealing to every female in Iraq and every child in Iraq who now might actually have a chance in life then I'd have to say no. Not more appealing.

Some mourn the loss of the rainforest over the remote chance that the saliva from some lizard down there might cure cancer, AIDS and diabetes but we dismiss the unrealized potential of millions of intelligent fellow human beings because we prefer to think that they are better off with a boot shoved halfway down their throat.

And the idea that Iraq was ever a stable democracy is absurd. Almost as absurd as opinions being formed on the basis of a "poll" of Iraqis.

I can hardly believe what I'm reading in this thread. A dictatorship preferable to a democracy??? I pray that if America ever turned into a dictatorship that those with the power to liberate us would have a little more respect for us than some people have for the people of Iraq. Its not just about the 6 out of 10 old farts who, out of a sense of self-preservation, accepted Saddam its also about their kids and countless future generations who need not sacrifice their humanity for the sole purpose of not disturbing our American way of life.

But, having said all that, I'll take every word of it back if anyone who trades their life for the "more appealing" benevolent rule of Saddam continues to hold the same opinion.

If posting as an adult, those facts were considered without any reference to your toilet training.

Yes, poll sample was small. But a larger and relevant fact remains: Iraq is that bad, obviously was getting that bad even in 2003, and will only get worse. Are you ready to approve of a selective service draft? Things are becoming that bad.

Your criticism of that poll has no basis in reality. Had you only questioned its small sample size, then your post was logical. But you did not do that. You ignored a tidal wave of reality to then post: You could only post that criticism by denying a giant woodpile of reality. The poll accurately represents Iraq. The poll accurately demonstrates dangers that Iraq is creating for Americans and Britons all over the world - as both US and UK intelligence services report. The poll adds one more toothpick onto a giant woodpile of fact: "Mission Accomplished" has even made Americans (and Britons) unwelcome by most Iraqis - as was being reported years ago. The poll defines but again (with same ballpark numbers) a situation that is well reported - and denied only by political extremists.

A mental midget president would love nothing better than to have another few thousand Americans die - so that he could become popular again. Would you trade childish insults about colons - or discuss that presidential reality? A few thousand dead American would only promote the "Mission Accomplished" agenda ... reality is that chilling.

Well then you did not hear the BBC interview female doctors in a medical conference in London. Every lady doctor said Iraq was better under Saddam. Every one. The #1 reason why? Well basic services, health, and so many other things were cited as worse since Saddam was gone. But the #1 reason why Iraq is worse - life was so much safer under Saddam.

And so we go to the numbers. Saddam killed 200,000 over then years. Americans (conservatively - not even including numbers from Anbar province) created the death of 98,000 Iraqis.

We have their testimony. We have numbers. What has this mythical democracy created? A worse life.

The bright side of those interviews was that Iraqis expected and hope things would get better. That attitude was also expressed often in hundreds of other BBC interviews. But to claim democracy has brought the Iraqi people anything better is simply denied in interviews of Iraqis and in well documented numbers.

Democracies have a long term advantage. But if imposed on a population - not earned by that population - then democracy becomes as bad as and results in dictatorships. Blindly listening to a mental midget proclaim Iraq will be cured by democracy is idiocy - not even supported by history. Successful democracy is created by - cannot be force by a jack boot upon - a nation.

Having destroyed a stable government, then the Iraq death rates are many times higher. At this point, the only hope for a successful democracy in Iraq lies in a civil war - either a hot civil war or by actions that fear a civil war. A stable democracy cannot be force down their throats no matter how many times a mental midget says otherwise.

Time and time again, reports by numbers and in interviews – Iraq is worse than it was under Saddam – no matter how many times George Jr denies it. And Iraq is only getting worse. Democracy did not solve anything.

http://cellar.org/2006/Iraq_Sep06_graph1h.jpg

One can approach this data any number of ways.

One way - the way the article takes it - is: "Majority support US withdrawl within a year."

Another way is: "63% of Iraqis support US remaining at least 6 months." or "Vast majority of Iraqis do not support immediate US withdrawl."

Another way, which the article notes at one point, is: "Iraqis show new confidence in their own security forces."

...

Don't miss the "Related Articles", in which we learn some optimistic news:

http://cellar.org/2006/Iraq_Sep06_graph2h.jpg

and

http://cellar.org/2006/Iraq_Sep06_graph2i.jpg

and

http://cellar.org/2006/Iraq_Sep06_graph3a.jpg

A little optimism in an otherwise pessimistic situation.

The last graph only indicates what has always been known. Al Qaeda and bin Laden have never been major players in Iraq. Even Zarqawi was never Al Qaeda - only used the name for prestige purposes. Iraq instability is due to an insurgency - a lawn full of dandelions. Most dandelions are from religious extremist, unemployed police and military, power broker militias, regional (ethnic) hatred, and a common distaste for the infidel invader.

Eliminate George Jr propaganda about bin Laden and Al Qaeda in Iraq; then this last graph makes complete sense.

Largest contributing factor to the Iraqi insurgency is Bremmer – who did nothing in planning for the peace, refused to demand massive numbers of American troops when he so desperately needed them to establish order before insurgencies could form, and who then – stupidly – disbanded the police and military. Al Qaeda and bin Laden were never significant in Iraq. Al Qaeda and bin Laden were only George Jr propaganda so that Americans would have fears - support "Mission Accomplished".

Wow you do love to say mental midget.. and lets get some things straight here about what I know about reality:
I know more than a handful of friends who are serving over there as we speak, and am fully aware that Iraq is an absolute hell hole right now. We have created a nation sized training camp for anyone in the Middle East with a gun and a hatred for the US to come and try their luck against the infidels. Iraq is also now prime real estate for recruitment into extremist groups, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were getting record numbers. And you are exactly right about Bremmer tw, we would not be in the same situation we are now if we hadn't dissolved the Iraqi police, military, and other security forces. It really makes no sense to me why the forces that keep society from eating itsself alive would be eliminated. I read an article recently about brand new generators being installed in power stations throughout Iraq, but because our great war leader decided to ignore the basic infastructure a rebuilding country would need, there are no technitians to run the plants once they are rebuilt. There are no effective security forces to protect the ones that do come to work because the US troops can't babysit them while having to lookout for idiots with bombs blowing up the powerlines.

So like I said before tw, which you ignored, I personally think that a.) the poll simply should have been of a larger pool.. much larger, in order to apply its assumptions over the whole of a diverse people. That's it. I am not saying we would not have gotten those results had the poll included more people. The results may indeed accurately represent the thoughts of the entire country, but I would feel much more comfortable applying that sweeping statement with a poll that includes more than just a fraction of a percent of the Iraqi people. And b.) The amount of resources we spent on this bumbled war could have been put to a much greater use, and of more immediate benefit to a suffering people somewhere like Darfur, Somolia, or hey how about finishing up in Afghanistan first.

Just a few comments:

For an easy to understand explanation of why a sample of a thousand or so people can produce an accurate result, try here:
http://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/questions.html

Infant mortality rate has climbed since the US occupation because women are now afraid to leave their homes to go to a hospital to give birth. This one statistic alone is damning evidence about how much more "secure" life in Iraq is now.

See above. And the US Civil War was started by Americans. No outside force from another country invaded the US, declaring that we needed to end slavery. The American people came to this conclusion on their own. Certainly, Fundamentalist Muslims treat women almost or as bad as we did the slaves, but you do not create positive changes in society by people from OUTSIDE that society coming in and declaring war. That only strenghthens the opposition to change and the moderates who might have come over to your way of thinking become extremists who hate you.

Yes, despite everything, an overwhelming majority of Iraqi's do NOT support terrorist groups. So why are we there?

If they were Doctors under Saddam's rule, wouldn't they have to have been part of the privileged minority? :confused:

It suggests perhaps they're just into attacking.

Maybe that whole deal about letting Iraq be three nations makes sense. Excecpt to the Sunnis, of course, who liked the sweet deal they had thugging the Shia out of their oil under Saddam and still hope to get it back somehow. And it would piss off the Turks. Tough.

It would not just piss off the Turks. It would piss off Turkey who has threatened to attack if Kurdistan becomes a separate nation. To a lesser extent, it would also piss off the Iranians.

There is merit to a suggestion of three autonomous Iraqi areas united in a common nation. I don't know of previous examples where this had worked successfully. Bottom line is that without a solution, Iraq may otherwise need an even more violent civil war.

Which Iraqis would be militarily opposed? Sunnis. Kurds and Shia have oil rich regions. Sunnis do not. And Turks who would consider themselves oppressed under Kurds.

To know - to even suspect - that three autonomous sections for Iraq would work can only be answered by knowing Iraq at a detailed level well beyond what anyone here could even summarize. We do know that under this current situation, Iraq will only get worse. Too few American troops. Too little Iraqi cooperation. Too much hate of the American occupiers (mislabeled in America as coalition troops). Too many insurgents so easily recruiting because Americans are both occupiers and ineffective.

Bottom line is that the worst possible solution is the one we Americans are currently imposing on the Iraqis. Iraq will only get worse and Americans will only be blamed. American military personal know this. As one American Captain noted quite bluntly: they cannot defeat Americans but Americans cannot win. That is his tactical situation. The strategic result for America is Vietnam or Somolia because our leaders are more concerned about their self serving politics (their legacy) rather than in America. A self serving agenda that would even use torture to solve a war that has no strategic objective and no exit strategy.

Exactly this incredible arrogance and ignorance about the local geopolitics was the reason the ME developped into the powder keg it is now. Unfortunately many politicians had the same irrisponsible attitude the last century.

The Bushites opened a box of Pandora and have (like MaggieL) not a single clue how to solve it.

You lost me here. I know the region of Iraq that the Kurds control, borders on Turkey. Also, there are a lot of Kurds living in Turkey, which worries the Turks, for fear the Kurds will try to break off a piece of Turkey to merge with the Iraqi Kurds.

But are you saying there are Turks living in Iraq, in the Kurdish dominated north east. If so, they are already under Kurdish dominance, aren't they?
What difference would it make if the Kurdish region was autonomous? :confused:

Then what good can we do? "We're attacking them over there so they don't attack each other over there?"I think that's going to have to be the end result.

Turkomen living in a Kurd dominated regions that must answer to a central government can appeal to that central government AND can easily find allied in others such as Sunnis.

What raised a red flag (and I don't grasp reasons for this response) is a Turkey threat to invade northern Iraq and protect those Turkomen if Kurdistan becomes independent or autonomous. I don't know how serious to take that threat. It adds another variable of instability to a region already made so unstable - starting 1 Aug 1990 - the day the world changed.

Previously noted was a warning by Holbrook about dangers over this next year in Kirkuk. Turkomen are only part of the instability. Kirkuk is a focal point for stability of that entire Kurdish dominated region of Iraq. Kirkuk is also essential for the crown jewel of that region - oil. Kirkuk is where that oil is controlled.

Some of this is discussed with a warch post on 15 Aug 2006 entitled:
Bush links Hezbollah to Ali-Q .

I don't think so. The Shia south would be closely allied with Iran. Maybe to the point where Iran would protect the south from any Sunni aggression. Why do you think the Iranians would be pissed?

DING! Bruce wins a prize! Unfortunately, this in the Intarwebnetutronicle, so all you get is a smiley:
:)

:::red flags go up::: All citizens are advised to comply with this auto-conclusion!

Does your sarcasm indicate that you support the contrary proposition: that it *doesn't* speak for itself?

I'm sure you'll be glad to tell me what I should think it means.

It is perfectly legal and normal to attack an invading, occupying, force in your country. Especially when your nation was not attacking or threatening that nation.
It is what we would do.
What is weird is how we are acting so surprised and upset by it.

In the rejected script for Invasion USA we all just peacefully welcomed the Communist invaders...

Iraqi Shia are said in American spin to be allied with Iranians. But reality says Iraqi Shia - especially in and not limited to the Iran Iraq war - don't have such loyalties. This is a classic case of separating American political spin from history that says otherwise. Iraqi Shia are allies only with Iran when it served to harm Saddam. Otherwise they want nothing from Iranians who they do not trust.

Iranians have similar Kurdish problems found in Turkey and Iraq. Iranians are not as violent in their response but also do not like the idea of an independent Kurdistan. Of course an independent Kurdistan in Iraq would have some advantages to Iran. But any independent Kurdistan that would cause problems on Iran's frontier concerns Iranians.

Read "But tw says..."

Interesting post about the poll numbers, from Iraqi blogger Iraq the Model.

From the New York Times of 9 Oct 2006: George Jr declares that Iraq is getting better when US intelligence agencies say otherwise. Three years ago, Americans were attacked 1000 times every month - after 'so called' liberation. Today attacks on Americans are one every 15 minutes. American intelligence estimates say this will be more frequent next year. So why does George Jr lie to America? Why stop lying when Americans have approved of these lies?

Americans have two choices. Either 500,000 troops in-country now; or get out. Current situation with too few troops will only make Iraq worse. As Colin Powell said, if you break it, then you will have to fix it. As long as Americans are considered the power with too few troops, then Iraq will only get worse. Anbar province cannot be won - this from US military analysis. Stay the course only means more American deaths and an inevitable worse case condition - Iraqi Civil War. Furthermore, this inevitable conclusion was not a surprise even many years ago. Scowcroft, George Sr's close friend, and others who have a history of honesty predicted all this long ago - even informing George Jr:
Good Morning, VietNam

This is MaggieL admitting she cannot contradict reality.

One blogger's opinion. If one opinion is so important than I guess this one should be given equal importance:


http://youngmammy.blogspot.com/2006/...854749604.html

Yeah... she sounds "liberated".
It is so far past time to get out of this invasion/occupation it is sickening. (Almost as sickening as the fact that we did it in the first place)