Let them eat cake!
 

UT do not respond. Remember our promise to one another. I am sure the following will get me banned for the third or fourth time, but if I can't post my opinionand not even attack another member, ethnic group, or spamming the board, what's the point?

POEM

September 2004 was a very good year
It was good for the poor
And best of all for

Campbell’s
Chicken
Noodle
Soup.
Alas, that vintage cannot be found on the shelves
anymore.

But clever aficionados’’ have stored cans in their soup cellars.
I am told that the vintage will reach its peak in 2010
when the price is likely to reach 2 cents per can.

But despair not, American Entrepreneur!
You can go down to the food commodities center
You know:
that place for the cons, the mother’s of three living off the system, and the disabled
(who really are notdisabled, they just crossed some doctor’s palm with golden eagles).

And you can receive completely free of charge
Campbell’s 2004.

If you are lucky, you might come across some 1999-powdered milk (generic).

Why do we have the FDA?

To make sure those with money live and those without succumb to some odd disease
the rest of you call food poisoning.

Now, it being the holiday season and all,
I don’t wish to be greedy.
The first Mom who PM’s me with her shipping address,
I will mail her my can of 2004 Campbell’s
Chicken Noodle Soup
Vintage 2004.

I’m sure your children will love it.

Happy Holidays,

Marichiko

WTF are you going on about?

She got a free can of soup from the food bank, and she's pissed that it's from 2004.

So pissed that she's supposedly willing to pay several dollars shipping to make a point about the can of soup she supposedly couldn't afford to buy in the first place.

The food bank gave her food that was out of date?

'supposedly'? are you suggesting that it's all an act and she can actually afford the things she says she can't?

I rather liked the poem. I especially liked the way the name of the soup was staggered across several lines.

An act? No, I do think she truly believes she can't afford the things she says she can't.

It's the fault of the towing industry, they are crippling us...

Shine and I smoked a pork loin yesterday and the cryovac? shrinkwrap had a date of Oct. 2003. Which is nutts because I lost all in freezer in Katrina. WTF? It was great! BTW

Not a very good poem, if'n y'ask me.

I totally understand the marychicks POV. I have an illness that will require me to to take medication for the rest of my life (don't panic, it ain't that heavy) but the way the NHS is structured in the UK, and the way the european pharmiceuticals are structured, means that my medication frequentally comes from outside of the UK (made under EU license). Which i ok, mostly..... except now and again the packaging is a bit iffy, and the metered-dose delivery system does not seem to be quite as smooth operating or accurate as it could be. Still, I'm sure it saves the NHS a few pence here and there.

Oh she believes she can't afford those things. You think maybe she's terribly misguided about her disposable income then? You don't think maybe she just doesn't have very much money?

$671.00/mo plus $10.00 food stamps. No close family to help. No wealthy friends. Ibram, if you consider that a poetry critique, I hope for the sake of the world, you go into stock broking. I wrote a lot more, but I've been having computer problems and it all got erased. 12 per cent of the people in this country are in my situation.

I may explain or not, tomorrow. And to all a good night.

Dana, we've had this conversation a bajillion times before. I will lay this out for you once, and then I'm done. I already regret that I even bothered to reply to this thread...

What one can "afford" is entirely subjective, it's all about what one chooses to spend one's money on. Compare the cost of the following items:

A single can of Campbell's soup - about $1.50
Shipping cost for that soup can in the domestic US - about $6.00
Dial-up internet service - about $10/month
A purebred puppy from a breeder - at least several hundred dollars

It is demonstrably false to say one can buy items 2, 3, and 4 (as mari has), but must rely on charity for item number 1 (as mari has). So yes, I do believe marichiko is, at best, "terribly misguided about her disposable income." I believe food banks should be reserved for people who are truly hungry, not people who waste their limited funds on other items. A homeless person may have one less meal now because mari, with her little cottage, working car, well-fed pets, and internet connection, chose to take advantage of a charity. However, I understand you are a socialist, so who knows what sort of a perspective you may take on who "deserves" the benefit of charities. It doesn't matter. The way mari lives her life has been the topic of conversation far too many times already. I wish I hadn't risen to the bait. Like I said, I'm done.

Hey, whats wrong with getting a can of soup from 2004?

Its in a can, right? Doesn't go off?

A year ago when I bought the dog, I was allowed to earn $400.00 extra dollars per month by SSDI. It was part of my voc rehab process. I delivered phone book all over my mountain town in blizzards, and on weekends sold rose in bars (it sucked, but it got me some money). I wanted that dog because I was all alone and needed a companion to walk with me and bark if a meanie came to the door. The breeder let me make installment payments.

It wasn't easy in Colorado Springs, but easier than here. The ex-axmurderer essentially drove me out of towm by physically abusing me, and destroying my property - smashing whatever he could. He scared me to death and made me want to leave. I have always loved the Western Slope, so when an opening came up here, I took it. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that my food stamps would be cut from $130.00 to $10.00 and the nearest voc rehab and neurologist would be 200 miles away in Grand Junction. Durango has an ordanist that prevents rose vendors like me from coming in and selling. The phone books here are so teensie that they are mailed, not delivered. I want to work but I can't.

I now live in Southwestern Colorado. The nearest town with a pharmact and a real grocery store i16 miles away (32 round trip). The next nearest town where my doctor has his practice is 19 miles (38 round trip). Durango where I sometimes have to go for a specialist is 52 mile round trip. There is NO, repeat NO public transportation out here. My well fed pets subsist on dry cat and dog chow - about $4.50/month for my new cat, $9.00 for my dog.

Apt: $191.00
Pets: 13.50
car insurance 60.00
gas 100.00
cleaning supplies 20.00
personal supplies (shampoo, soap, deorderant, lotion for the dry air here)15.00
laundry (4 loads) 9.00
shoes, clothing from thrift shop 15.00
Internet (dial up) (how dare she? 19.99 (that crap about $10.00 s a lie. I checked)
Phone 20.00
Medicines $14.00
car maintenance $50 (varies)
debt for traffic ticket (didn't come to complete stop on deserted road) 250

Total debt $777.49 on an income of $671.00.
I'll take those two loaves of white bread, mold and all, marked Nov 13, diectly back to the food bank, Cloddfobble. Feel better now? And thanks for your promise to not answer.

I think giving out of date food to people on the edge of poverty is pitiful.

I think theres a difference between out of date and old.

Old food is not bad food. Spoiled food is bad food.

Hm. I thought this was going to be another thread about how astonishingly bad that Marie Antoinette movie was...

gawd,,,100 dollars on gas??

and your phone is cheap!


and you clean your house alot too!


I find you funny and agreeable Marichinko. I hope saying that dosn't get me hated, or shunned. I don't like to belonging to clicks and groups if it excludes others esp. on a message board so I don't mind saying so too much.:p

I guess that poverty is relative Here in the UK, there are few true paupers as we have several layers of safety nets to catch the majority (and yes, I know we have low-income families..... but how many are truly paupers?).

In the US, without the welfare and socialist infrastructure that we have here, it must be truly horrendous to be poor. Not only do you have the problem of finding food and shelter for yourself and thine, but you have to ward off the slingshots of the self-rightous. I am so glad I am not american.

Here, here, me t-- Waaait a sec...

We have similar social services here Jay. It's why I'm always very glad to be Australian. Just in case...

I agree....but then again, I don't know if one can generalise across the whole of America. Isn't it different from state to state, as to what protection there is?

I know Mari has had a much harder time in her new home than she had in the last place she lived.

What is your profession marichiko?

Well DUH! She said she is disabled. If she COULD be doing what she used to do to make a living, this thread would not be here.

Eat cake? I got a can of apple pie filling out today, both ends were bulging out. Date was 10/?/ 06. Out the door carefully. I find that pineapple is the worst about storage?

Alright then, I'll be more specific. What did you do before becoming disabled mari? I'm assuming this was an injury or illness of some type, I never caught any details.

My keyboard shorted out in the middle of this, so I couldn't reply. I guess it was some electrical thingie, cuz when I finally got mad and gave it a sharp wrap on the desk, it began to work for now. A kind friend is also sending me a spare she has.

$100 IN GAS:

I live in a very small town that does not have a pharmacy, it has an expensive Mom and Pop grocery that charges twice what a regular grocery store does. My doctor is 19 miles away in one of the next towns. My specialists are 27 miles away in Durango. If I need hospital testing I have to go to Cortez, 16 miles. I also go their for groceries and thrift shop excursions. I try to do all my errands at once, but you know how that goes.

Two trips to doctor = 76 miles
Five or 6 trips to Cortez = 192 miles
four trips to Durango = 216 miles

Total: 484 miles @ $3.20/gal (its finally going down), my car gets maybe 20 miles to the gallon = 77.44, and then there's always some stupid trip to social services or the commodities place that brings my mileage higher. I'd say my gas estimate is pretty reasonable.

AND YOUR PHONE IS CHEAP

Glad to hear it, I'm stil paying off my installment fees on time, so its more like $35 or so at the moment, but it should go down to around $22 or $23 some day. That's plain phone service, no voice mail, no caller ID, no call waiting, no long distance or any other of those frills.

AND YOU CLEAN YOUR HOUSE A LOT, TOO

The HA makes surprise visits and expects the apartments to be spotless. I buy generic, $2.99 laundry soap, 1.99 fabric softener, $1.29 dish soap, $4.00 vacumn cleaner bags, those cheap garbage bags that rip and still cost $4.00/box. I buy 99 cent ajax type cleanser for the sinks. I buy generic pine sol for the floors -$3.00. Comes to about 18.26/month. Sorry I lied. I understand all about the economies of scale, but I can't afford to stock up on $20.00 boxes of Tide, etc.

I like Mari too, and I don't consider myself a member of any clique.

I like Mari too. I also think she made a very valid point. Someone else made the point that there is a big difference between old food and out of date food, but in reality even food that's old but within its sell by date may be spoiled, if it's not been kept in the correct storage conditions.

I remember someone offering a bunch of food to my mum for the Refugee Council to use in their emergency food packs.....bless them for making the effort but it was pretty much all unusable. It was thrown away. Just because someone is on the breadline (or below it) doesn't mean they should 'be grateful' for food which may make them ill and which none of us would consider eating.

Thanks Dana and Rich. Every now and then I really lose my temper (a symptom of my neurological dificulties). They give me xanax to take as needed, but sometimes, I'll post before the stuff kicks in.

I don't mean to whine "poor me." Its the the thousands and thousands of other folks in this country who live in exactly the same conditions I do - even far worse.

9th engineer if you're that interested, PM me. It involves a lot of brain chemistry and neurological stuff, so your eyes may glaze over. Warning you in advance!

This Holiday season, just remember those less fortunate with something better than a can of 3 year old creamed corn. A little boy or girl somewhere will thank you for it!

PS And Busterb, I depend on a lot of smoked/frozen meat, too, given to me by a kind neighbor with a ranch.

Do you have programs over there for giving to less fortunate people at this time of year (outside the usual charities etc)?

Over here Kmart has a wishing tree where you can put a new present for kids who otherwise wont have a present at christmas time. you just put a lable on it saying what age boy or girl it should go to. I think it's a lovely idea.

Sounds like it's time for you to get another reporter to do a story on you so you can live off the donations like the last time.

Gosh, I've been having endless computer woes. I sent a reply that I thought got posted, but it didn't.

Let's try again. My heartfelt thanks to those who understand. I really didn't mean to go on a "poor me" crying jag, but one of my symptoms is sudden bouts of anger that seem to come out of nowhere. They give me xanax for this, but sometimes I kick in before the xanax do.

Anyhow, what disturbs me is not just my own situation, but the plight of the poor and disabled in the US, in general. 12% below the poverty line - incredible for a wealthy country such as ours. Since I am forced to sit in a lot of clinics for the poor, food stamp offices, etc., I see and hear things that simply break my heart. I want so much to help, but I can't.

9th Engineer, if you are interested in a medical synopsis of my condition. pm me; but be aware that you'l be reading through a lot of medical stuff until your eyes glaze over.

Busterb, I eat a lot of smoked and frozen meat, too. A kindly rancher in the area drops off packs of meat for me every now and then.

To everyone: There really are people in this country who are poor thru no fault of their own. Instead of a 4 year old can of creamed corn, why not go down to the local food bank this month and donate fresh milk, butter, fresh bread, fresh fruit and vegetables, or 20 inexpensive stuffed animals for the little kids who come down with their parents.

May God bless each and everyone!

I am having lots of computer wierdness as I mentioned above. This reply may or may not go through. If it doesn't, I won't try reposting it. You're a tough girl, Wolf, so here you go:

I take it then, that you have studied the work being carried out at the University of California by of John Edmond, PhD. Just which part of his hypothesis do you object to? The part where he identifies oxidative stress as the cellular injury caused by chronic mild carbon monoxide exposure? Or where he hypothesizes, accompanying conditions may include carbon monoxide acting as a rogue neuro-modulator perturbing carbon monoxide-like regulatory processes that are involved in cell signaling?


Surely, you agree with Ellenhorn and Barceloux writing in the peer reviewed monograph, Medical Toxicology - Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. New York, NY: Elsevier Science Publishing Co., Inc. 1988., p. 823]

I suggest you get a copy. It’s a real page-turner.

Here’s some more from the above two scientists writing in the same monograph as above:

I could go on and on, but I’m sure you studied all this stuff in your cartography 101 class years, ago.

Note that the neurological sequelae (that means after effects) INCLUDE the symptoms above, but never in the literature that I have researched, have I found a patient exhibiting every one of these symptoms all at once. CO exposure seldom impact’s one’s long-term memory – not very severely, anyhow. Nor does it necessarily impact their over-all intelligence – although mine has dropped to my dismay.

I can read a scientific paper (taking notes all the while) because I have a BA and a Master’s degree in biology. While you were writing papers on contour mapping and urban geography, I was studying mitochondria, synapses, embryology, chemistry, and physics. I still have that knowledge even though I don’t know what day of the week it is, get lost going places I’ve been 10 times before, forget faces, have severe panic attacks, and can get irritable as hell out of nowhere. These things make it damn hard to hold down a job no matter how smart or stupid you may be.

Now, if it is your scientific hypothesis that I gave up work I loved that paid decent money, and decided to be homeless for a while and then live a life of terror on how I’m going to survive on the SSDI I paid into for 30 years; I suggest you check yourself into your own institution for thorough testing. Don’t forget the neuropych eval.

Wow. That's about as heartless as it gets. IF Mari did benefit from donations as a result of a story, then good! I can't think of many people on this Cellar more deserving of a little good fortune. Do you say that to al the people who have benefitted from donations as a result of newspaper stories? Maybe the little boy in my ward whose parents had to raise money for stem cell treatment? Newspapers covered it, people ran marathons for him.....people donated sums of money. How mercenary of him and his parents to use the media for their own gain.

Mari, don't let shit like that get to you. I don't know if you did benefit from donations, but I hope you did. Plenty of people get press coverage and get paid who don't need/deserve that payday.

Wolf enjoys goading me into responding to her. If I lose my temper, she wins. About the only person around I know who can read my response to Wolf and understand it is Labrat. Wolf is not a neurologist, and she certainly didn't write her thesis on the sequelae of chronic CO poisoning. This doesn't stop her from taking jabs at me and running like a bully on a playground.

I did get some donations from the people who read the story. That money helped me survive the last few months until my SSDI came through.

I had approached the newspaper 6 months before because I was furious that Colorado had cut its stipend to the Needy And Disabled (AND) to a mere $130.00/month. In the US it can take months, even years for the Feds to approve an SSDI application. In the interim, all the needy disabled have to live off is $130/month (think they may have upped that slightly by now).

I wanted to write the story of what the Colorado State Legislature was doing to the disabled of the state, and how many were dying for lack of medical care, food, and shelter.

The reporter liked the idea of the story, but she wanted to write the story herself, using me as the focal point. I am a very private person and I did not want my life splashed all over the paper. So, I refused.

After I lost my home, I went through 6 months of hell and met many people in the same predicament as me or worse. I decided that if telling my story would raise public awareness in Colorado Springs about what was really going on in this state, I needed to tell it. I went into that reporter's office shaking, and asked, "do you still want to do that story?"

So maybe Wolf is right. Its time for another newspaper story. Maybe this time in the Denver Post.

I really wish our local food banks would take fresh foods like the ones you suggest - they always specify non-perishables. I've always felt bad giving canned goods and nothing else. I don't know if it's liability fears (i.e. giving some sour milk or something else 'off' that could make someone sick) that lead the food banks to do this; probably something like that. Our parish got around that by offering a regular food bank to about 200 families who subscribe (we advertised the thing, thought it would take a couple of weeks to fill the spots and were filled in a day or two). They come on specific days to collect their groceries, and that way we can have fresh foods that aren't past their dates.

mari, when your SSDI did come through, how much did you get, lump sum? For some reason I'm thinking 23,000$ American; could be wrong, though. the fact that you allowed a man to manipulate you out of that money is no one's fault but your own. Myself, I've never had more than 6,000$ at one time.

Via your own logic, it is up to the average tax-payer to come through for you despite your hideous mistakes via personal relationships: Ok. Obviously, those tax-payers did just that by sending you cash donations. Good for them.

The fact that you are very intelligent and literate and articulate makes me think two things: #1) you are better off, educationally and socially, than the average American worker; and #2) you could, if you wanted, get off the dole very, very easily with virtually no tax on your current brain condition. Can't recall what day it is? Hire someone for 20.00/day to remind you. Even better-get a watch that tells the time/date/moon phase. Can't figure out the right route to take? get a cab; make those who hire you for your expert knowledge pay for it OR, get a GPS or similar. With all of your expertise and knowledge, it's kind of a slap in the face to those who need you that you don't work to the very best of your ability.

You COULD be productive if you wished. But, you don't wish.


I'm sorry things are so hideous for you. Perhaps you could make things better by applying all that logic and vocabulary AND ability to changing policy nation-wide.

I do know a thing or two about people on disability. Actually, more than a thing or two. I realize I am in Ohio, but Ohioans on disability enjoy so much more than you present...and I think (THINK--don't know) Colorado is richer than Ohio.


If Colorado is NOt RICHER than Ohio, I beg, on my disabled knees, for mercy.

What did you used to be able to do? I forgot/never knew.

Please don't insult the rest of the cellar, including Wolf, by implying I'm the only one who can use a medical dictionary. Thanks for posting that. I finally have a solid hypothesis regarding the cause of your holier than thou personality.

You used to have more interesting things to say. Now all I read is waa waa waa, poor me.

Too bad.

labrat, LOADS of disability claims are Psychiatric in nature. Methinks Mari has actual psych issues that she is unwilling to disclose. Fine--no law, no where, says she has to. It's her right to nondisclosure and privacy and I respect that. What I DON'T respect is her special pleadings. There are TONS and TONS more needy Americans than Mari. My objection is that she continually begs my purse and pocketbook....and moral fiber as well. If I was ONLY GOOD enough, I'd support Mari--coz I don't? I'm a horrid person.

I can't really make that jive.

Bri, ???

A person with a mental disabilty is due just as much as one with a physical one. Broke is broke. End of story.

I don't mind part of my earnings going into the pot to help those that need it due to disability. It might be me whose brain shorts out for good and I end up SOL.

What drives me cuckoo is Mari's fucking bitching and moaning about how bad she's got it. Puh-leese. Maybe it's her mental ilness that makes her this way, I don't know, or care. That's why, since I can't know, I ignore her posts for the most part.

I wasn't attacking you in any way shape or form.

BTW, my hypothesis was that her posts/stories are full of holes because her brain is. (see "moth-eaten") It was a bad joke, sorry.

I don't think this is a case of Mari bitching about how bad she has it....I think she is extrapolating out from her own experience and her own interaction with others in similar situations to suggest that a great many Americans are needlessly suffering hardship.

I don't see a holier than thou personality, I see somebody who has been goaded by nasty comments into making a dig back. We're all human.

I doubt that. I could be wrong, but from what Mari's said to me in the past about entitlement, it wasn't at that sort of level.

As for her being able to be productive, I think Mari's pretty much covered why she can't hold down the kind of job that utilises her skills many times in the past. Her symptoms are the kind that would severely hamper her ability to maintain employment at anything beyond a fairly basic level; though i hope that her recovery to date gives an indication of further recovery to the point she would be able to resume such work.

Just because she is able to come on here and make a long post, don't extrapolate out from that that her symptoms aren't real and serious. Mari and I have talked this stuff through quite a lot on pm, the stuff she is dealing with is difficult and manifests in a range of symptoms which get in the way of keeping a job, and also make it virtually impossible to do the sort of work she is trained to do.

I am stunned at the lack of compassion being shown to someone who has had their career wrenched away from them and their life almost destroyed by an accident which has caused such severe neurological damage. That she can see this situation in terms not just of how it affects her, but how it relates to the plight of unemployed, severely disabled Americans generally, is testament to her strength of mind. That you see it just in terms of her whining is testament to your blinkered views on life.

Wolf, I expect that lack of compassion from, but Bri, I am surprised by.

I was at various times a medical librarian, science librarian/subject specialist for both the University of Idaho and Ft. Lewis College in Durango. I was head of Reference at a major public library in Colorado Springs, and I was acting director of the Helen Fowler Library at Denver Botanic Gardens. I finished up my illustrious career as a janitor.

Please don't insult the men and women who have literally spent their entire adult lives both studying and doing science.

MITOCHONDRIA:
mi·to·chon·dri·on (mt-kndr-n)
n. pl. mi·to·chon·dri·a (-dr-)
A spherical or elongated organelle in the cytoplasm of nearly all eukaryotic cells, containing genetic material and many enzymes important for cell metabolism, including those responsible for the conversion of food to usable energy. It consists of two membranes: an outer smooth membrane and an inner membrane arranged to form cristae.

What's cristae? What's an eukaryotic cell? What's cytoplasm? Further, what is the evolutionary importance of the mitochrondria? Have cells always had mitochrondria? How do they convert food to usable energy?

Hell, what's the difference between a plant cell and an animal cell? I bow before a person of such intelligence as yours who can now throw these words around without ever having read Watson's Molecular Biology of the Gene, never studied the ground breaking work of Linus Pauling and, of course, never bent over a microscope, or never sat up all night memorizing those damned isomers and tautometers or the composition of the double helix. Hats off to every cellurite for being able to read the latest publications in Science with only a dictionary.


No, waa, waa poor 12% of Americans living below the poverty line, including many of the disabled. My life would be very different today if some damn scientist would have stuck his head out of the lab and said to me, "You need hyperbaric therapy, baby. You need medicines that we are now experimenting with for various types of brain injury - especially apoxia (go look it up). And while you're looking things up, look up Mary Sue Coleman. We need more scientists like her.

I could write you a horror story every week about the life of some OTHER disabled person living on SSI or SSDI if you want. I am more than willing to write those stories. I can think of 6 or 7 just off the top of my head right now - and me with memory problems!

If you, as a scientist cannot understand the points I am trying to make, then I can only believe you write out of personal bias - not science. I would be fascinated to read your hypothesis, a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences.

I will even comply with a double blind study just for you. And me. If it will help me go back to work, I'll try anything.

And Bri, I have admitted to severe anxiety problems, problems controlling my temper, severe depression, etc. I wasn't this was way before. I am now.

And Bri, I don't want a penny from you. Make your charitable donations anywhere you wish except to me. In fact, send them to Bin Laden first. And if you'll recall, I helped YOU with some of your English Lit questions. My help wasn't anything special, according to you, but you kept PM-ing me with questions, and I kept doing my best to give you research ideas, etc. I never asked you for a damn thing in return except how your papers turned out, and you never even gave me so much as the courtesy of an answer. Then you'd PM me again over Rupert Brooke or some other ass-hole. Why didn't you ask your prof, instead?

- From Burning, by Gary Snyder

Explicate THAT for me, Bri. And you thought Herrick was difficult.

Mari *smiles* take a breath hun. As someone wiser than I once said "Don't let the bastards grind you down".

You know what your problems are. Lots of people on the Cellar care and are interested, don't get wrapped up trying to explain yourself to people who never will, for whatever reason. You'll just end up upset and angry and for what? You won't change their minds and you won't 'win' the argument. The most you could do is upset someone else in return, and who knows what troubles they themselves are operating under.

pm me if you want to chat:P

Did I miss something? Where does hyperbaric therapy apply? Or was it only uses as an example?

Hyperbaric oxygen therapy has been used in cases of acute, moderate to severe carbon monoxide poisoning, since in at least one study it was shown to improve cognitive outcome at six weeks and twelve months. However, its role is still unclear due to conflicting study results and the flawed design of some studies that support its use. High-flow 100% oxygen may be just as effective. It isn't clear that the reference here, however, is to acute poisoning - sounds like chronic exposure ...??? There aren't any studies that I've been able to find that support hyperbaric O2 for that.

Apoxia - ?? That's not in my medical dictionaries. Anoxia, perhaps? Or hypoxia?

I'm really surprised at some of the responses here.

I suppose everyone gets to a stage where they feel they can't give any more. Maybe that's why some people have been so heartless. That's the only thing I can think of.

I'll share a story with you and hope it helps.

My best friend is very self absorbed. Everything is always about her. She hardly ever considers how her actions might affect someone else till after the fact, and then she cries tears of remorse. Begs for forgiveness and all that stuff.

On the other hand, she is the most generous and loving person you might hope to meet. Sure, she gets insecure sometimes and lashes out at the people around her. Accuses them of not loving her. Tells her husband she wants a divorce and that she's sick of him, accuses him of having affairs on her, then next week she's ready to start a family with him.

How do I feel about all this?

Sometimes it hurts. Sometimes I get really angry. Sometimes I don't feel very compassionate towards her at all. Sometimes I wish she was just 'normal'.

Unfortunately that's not an option for her. She has schizophrenia. She hears voices. She's vague sometimes. She lives in her own world half the time.

The medication she's on every day of her life keeps her straight most of the time, but she's still pretty flighty and hard work a lot of the time.

Do I feel like life would be easier without her? You bet it would be, but then I'd miss all the fun times we have together. I wouldn't have her to make me smile when I'm down, and I wouldn't know that no matter what, there's a friend in the world who will always be there for me, even if she is a bit crazy.

Some people need more patience than others for reasons that may not be of their own making.

What benefit is there in denigrating them?

Just shut the fuck up if you don't have something constructive to say. You don't know what their life is like.

Well said Ali.

I suspect that if Mari had suffered what she'd suffered, but was fortunate enough to have some sort of independant wealth and not be reliant on government assistance, the compassion levels would be much higher.

Edit: Okay, that was possibly a little harsh. Sometimes I lose faith in people when I am reading stuff like this. It makes me tetchy:P

Maybe so. I don't really know. Social services are a problem though. Throughout the world as far as I can tell. I remember when my mum was sick and I was caring for her full time which meant no work or study for me, I needed a carers allowance to pay the bills etc. I kept putting off going down to fill out the forms because i was so busy looking after Mum. The bills were piling up and when I did finally go down there, they told me they don't back pay that particular allowance. Mum died two weeks later.

It can be really hard sometimes. Looking from the outside people can never know what it's really like, and every case is different.

I agree. I know a lot of people who are struggling because of inadequate, over complicated or inflexible social services systems. I have a friend, who was given a pension from the army of about £350 a month, because of that he's been told he can't claim any other assistance, despite being unfit for work. He pays his council tax at the full rate, gets no help with his rent and gets no other reductions or benefits, not even free prescriptions, despite having to take a raft of medication on a daily basis.

There are others even worse off. I don't think any nation has quite got this right.

Ladies, why don't you go back a bit further in our archives here and find out how BRIANNA "got where she is today". It might make you wonder, as it does me, why she isn't more empathetic. And after that, ask yourselves why certain people here give Bri her regular doses of approval, support, and wisecracks while all they have for Mari is personal attacks and disparagement. If there is one, here is where you will see the underbelly of The Cellar. That's my opinion, anyway. We can still have opinions, can't we?

As it happens, I am one of those people who was so fortunate. Because I had a rather sizable trust fund from my aunt, I survived. In addition to most of my inheritance being gone now, my treatment has cost the insurance companies and SS about a half million dollars over the last 12 years (and it should have been half that but medical care has risen totally beyond all reason). Last year, even with my checks for total disability, my income was minus $25,000. So needless to say, I do not have a problem listening to Mari's saga. And by watching the dynamics of this board whenever Mari's story comes up, I have learned a lot about some of the rest of you too. Now there are 3 more of you who I really like ;)

That's something that's generally puzzled me for a couple of years.

It has been talked to death before.

So? Mari posted a poem which highlighted an important issue regarding the substandard food being palmed off on those most in need. She knows about it because she is one of those people. But the post wasn't about her, it was a political poem ( I read it as such anyway) about the way those on the breadline are treated by society. The responses she got resparked the issues that have been talked to death. Maybe if people didn't respond in such a nasty way, it wouldn't devolve into a rehash of previous conversations....but when someone is attacked, there is an instinct to defend themself. And frankly, when someone is attacked, rounded on or treated unfairly again and again, some of us have an instinct to balance the picture.

My Mom is calling. Enjoy the game.

I read all the posts. edit: and found nothing to redeem anyone.

I still think the behaviour of some members on this thread is pretty disappointing, but I'm sure that's because I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

Thank christ for that is all I can say.

@ Griff. Well.....how nice for you....enjoy your conversation.

I'll echo that thanks:)