girl was stoned to death for loving the wrong boy
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1811&ct=5

The grand payoff of faith.

She was Kurd and he was Sunni Iraqi. I thought the Kurds were the good guys but apparently they're just the different guys.

Is there anything at all sadder than this.

Aren't there some Christians out there who would like to stone a boy for loving another boy?

They don't use physical torture Spex. Christians are more humane. They use phsychological torture.

Edit: Left out an E

But they'd like to stone him.:cool:

What difference does it make.... they don't. You're condemning people for what you think they are thinking, unless your talking about Phelps and he's the only one that believes he is Christian.

Hey...I would not feel so all alone. Everybody must get stoned. Or burned at the stake.

I almost posted that one too.
Ain't faith grand!
"It brings so much hope to us all"!

That one has nothing to do with religion. That's about fear and superstition of witches casting spells. But rkzenrage is so consumed with his hate, he can't understand the difference, even when it's stated in the article.

Religion is superstition.

You're pathetic, I feel truly sorry for you.

This is as much tribal/communal as it is religious. This is a cultural matter, whereby males of a community believe they have the absolute right of life and death over the women and girls of the community. She was not stoned to death because she loved a boy....but because that boy belonged to a different sect/community.

There are numerous cultures which subscribe to the idea of honour killings and not all of them claim religious sanction.

This of course makes it harder to tackle. Cultures which have taken thousands of years to evolve and have retained ancient elements through several religious epochs are as difficult to move as mountains.

None of them are the 'good guys' and none of them are the 'bad guys'. There are traditionalist bastards in every group and there are compassionate fathers too. Her own family did this to her.

As an aside on 'honour killings'....during the days leading up to partition in India, when communalist violence was at its height, men from moslem, sikh and hindu communities burned their own women in their homes to prevent them being kidnapped or dishonoured by the enemy. Locked them in barns and doused them with kerosene. Mothers, wives, daughters and sisters. It went across the faiths. We see this as a primarily moslem phenomenon these days, but the reality is that honour killing is a different thing to sharia law. Sharia law is based on the qu'ran, honour killing is much, much older and exists in places beyond the reach of the Prophet.

So what's the problem? I thought we wanted to let them have self determination in running their country. If they want to stone each other I say let them have at it. Just don't stone and bomb us.

They don't do it but it is fair, then, to condemn the book that states that is what should be done?

Back to name calling? I love my stalker... *laughing*

Name one good thing religion does that one can't do for themselves without it? That you get to go to your local stoning doesn't count, though that could be one.

One thing that you don't get to get duped into giving money to a business you get nothing from along with it? Business, not charity, religions are not charity.
Just one.

If the Bible is correct, then stoning is correct. It is clear.

those honor killings are heinous. The worst ones, to me, are the women who are killed by their fathers and brothers after being raped.

I cannot begin to comprehend how they justify that.

From Wikipedia.com:

In keeping with the Latin etymology of the word, religious believers have often seen other religions as superstition. Likewise, atheists, agnostics, deists, and skeptics regard religious belief as superstition. (Edmund Burke, the Irish orator, once said, "Superstition is the religion of feeble minds".) From the broadest perspective, all religion is a form of superstition.

Religious practices are most likely to be labelled "superstitious" by outsiders when they include belief in extraordinary events, an afterlife, supernatural interventions, apparitions or the efficacy of prayer, charms, incantations, the meaningfulness of omens, and prognostications.

Ah. A borderline--either black or white, nothing in between. I respect that, I've BEEN that. I also got over that. [rkz--this is your cue to belittle me--go ahead]
I'll continue:

One good thing religion does that one cannot do for oneself? It teaches surrender to those who are helpless before their addictions and hatred.

Wanna take on all the 12-stepper's in the US? Myself, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling successfully recovered addicts that they are NOT recovered due to a HP but merely deluded by Big Corporate Brothers or what have you.
I don't believe the Bible is the Word of God--[i]however[i] I would never presume to tell people how to worship or what to worship--let alone give doubt to those who find comfort in the concept of a Higher Power.

Rip away, r. post bombs.

tell me how stupid and irrational I am. I look forward to it.

Where does it state in the Bible that we should do that? The Old testament is out, except for Jews. That's a history of their doings, but I don't see them doing that now.

The bible says many things, describes many customs and remedies for social ills that were applied at the time. There are plenty of sections of the Bible that are all kissy, lovey, forgive everyone, too.

But the Moslems still practice these atrocities by social custom and the interpretations by their clerics of the Koran. What does that have to do with the Bible?

Plenty of nonreligious folks go through AA. They just have to fake it through the religious bit, like in Boy Scouts. It's too bad that they have to, but that's the way the system is set up.

The girl would have been OK if she had just played paper, which everyone knows covers rock.

Bullshit, you've obviously never read the Bible or you would know that. Where does it say that, Bible scholar?
And what has the Bible got to do with the Moslems.

You have gotten more benefit from religion than anyone I know. Since you don't believe in God you can't blame him, so you blame religion for everything that's wrong with your petty little world.

You bluster about personal responsibliity, but blame religion for all the bad shit it your life. Just look at all that crab grass those damn Christians put in your yard.
Pathetic.

No one is helpless before their addictions and the medical community agrees with me.
Your will is what you need, not religion. The twelve steps do not work.
See Penn and Teller's Bullshit 12-Stepping.
I was told that I could not participate in AA because I was an atheist by a chapter head... real loving and helpful group there.

I noticed you don't have an example for the first post I made and you think you have benefits I have reaped. There are none.
I have never blamed religion for anything in my life. Show where I have done that once.
I just want it out of every aspect of government.
More insults, "petty", you are so funny, *laughing at you*

Avoiding the question, huh Bible scholar. Just make wild accusations you can't back up and hope it will float. Nope, your shit goes right to the bottom, nobody here is stupid enough to believe your paranoid claims.

You can blame that on religion, instead of taking personal responsibility, too.

Avoiding the question? LOL! Listen to you. I was the one who asked a question. An easy one for you, who is so "blessed" right?
So tell me, what are these blessings that you get that none of us sad secular beings are missing out on? The ones we can't get on our own?
Come on?
I threw you an underhand one here. Hit it out of the park! Easy one!

Yeah... Dominionism and reconstructionist are my paranoid claims? Man, that is gold! Yayyyy!!!! I love my stalker!

Half of Leviticus tells us who should be stoned and why. Some of the reasons are so silly you wait for it to tell you it is a joke, but you knew that.

I had no idea you had to believe in God if you wanted help from AA. Now if anything is discriminatory that would be surely?

"Oh you don't believe in God? Well you'd better just stay an alcoholic."

Doesn't seem too Christian to me.

You also cannot belive in free will.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

But that is what AA is. Take out the religion out and there's nothing left.

Don't criticize AA. It has helped countless alcoholics (including a family member) gain control over their addiction. If an alcoholic is not comfortable with the 12 steps then they are free to seek support elsewhere. Its not like they have a monopoly on addiction treatment.

Well, plenty of people I've spoken with say Matthew 5:17 proves that statement wrong.

I'm no biblical scholar, though, so I wouldn't know. This is the passage often used in defense of the actions and beliefs of the more "hard line" believers.

I always thought it was a place where alcoholics got together to support each other through thier recovery. I had no idea there was so much god in it. I suppose I'd have to spend a lot of money on a rehab clinic if I realized I had an alcohol problem and needed help.

Where do you get that idea? Christianity is based on the old testament.

I'm disgusted when people take what suits them from their religion and dump the rest.

Cool, no Commandments! Sounds like a party.

I made no claims of any blessing for me. The blessing is for you to whine how your being oppressed by religious people in lieu of a God to blame.
No, your whining about how they are oppressing you, is paranoid bullshit.[/quote]

Half of Leviticus tells us who should be stoned and why. Some of the reasons are so silly you wait for it to tell you it is a joke, but you knew that.[/quote]Leviticus is some scary shit, ain't it. It also the history of the Jews a thousand years before Jesus. How has this anything to do with now, with Christians, or with Moslems? Or present day Jews for that matter, even the most conservative Jews only stone their women with diamonds.

Yeah.... what do you mean out? It's the same god regardless. I mean, I realize there are 3 of him, but its still the same god. So, either god thinks stoning is a good idea - or god used to think stoning was a good idea but changed his mind. Which is it?

I am free to criticize what the numbers show does not work.
AA is a cult.



Jesus stated those that did not follow his path should die and supported slavery, those out too?
Cherry picking and making it up as you go along must be fun.

My undestanding of AA is, you pick your higher power. Anything to get you on the road.
Will power. KZr drink a bottle of castor oil an keep saying. I'm not going to shit. See where your will power is then!

That means nothing.
Not the same as saying I am not going to take a drink today.
My will power has been fine with that.
The AA line of "real" and "not real" alcoholics is a joke. Just a way for them to cop-out of their failures and, worse yet, other's successes.

First of all it's not true that you must believe in God. They require that you believe in a higher power than yourself, but you don't have to define it.

Discriminatory? Are fraternities and sororities discriminatory? It's a private organization, they can accept anyone they want.
Remember rkzenrage bitching about the government saying people aren't allowed to smoke in a bar (private business) even if the owner wants them to be allowed. But now he wants AA to take anyone that wants to join, even if the owner doesn't want them.

Doesn't sound very Christian? How in hell did they get dragged into this? AA is not a Christian Organization.

It's not? Well, it sounds very confusing to me now and I'm not trying to be a smart arse here. I seriously just thought AA was where people got to gether to support each other. I don't know much about it to be honest because in truth, it's not a big thing over here. We're all alcoholics so I don't think there's enough room for us all in therapy. We're also a godless bunch over here, so any treatment programs there are definitely don't focus on any kind of 'higher power' other than will power and inner strength etc. All those things that we're all blessed with but lose track of from time to time.

What the hell is a higher power if not a god?
I have never bitched about a bar saying people cannot smoke if they don't want.
I bitch when the government won't let a private business let people smoke on their private property when they want them to. ANYONE with private property should be allowed to let anyone smoke on their property.
AA gets government money, people are forced by the courts to go to that religious cult, go AND COMPLETE IT. That is called government induced indoctrination.
There is no higher power.
Again... why could that not just help me without the superstition stuff if they were not about religion?
I take it you have never read the Big Book?
It is WAY about religion. No one said Christian, though that is what the founders wanted.

What part of ancient Jewish history that has no bearing on anyone today don't you understand? Nothing in the Old testament is rules for Christians or moslems, nothing. And the Jews have pretty well relegated it to a record of their trials and tribulations.

It's amazing so many people harp on the Bible when they have no clue about how it is structured or applies to different groups. You've been watching too many old movies where the one suspendered, one tooth, moron says, "The Bible says an eye for an eye". Yes it does, so fucking what? It doesn't apply to you or me, or anyone else today. That's Hollywood, get over it.

Read for comprehension.

Show me the money.
I think your getting into what people twist most programs into? Some AA groups won't let dopers in. Why? Because of a few narrow minded SOBs that alway have to fuck things up. They read the big book like some assholes read the bible.

Jesus gave Christians one commandment. "Love thy neighbor as thy self." That's it, that's the only rule. Does every Christian follow it to the letter, hell no. Some try harder than others, but you are only required to try, not to succeed.

I hope my neighbor isn't in to beating himself with chains.

Hello... he was talking to the Jews, telling them he wasn't going to spoil their party and they could do as they had in the past. And he didn't change the Jewish religion.

Ok, so help me get a clue here Bruce. Are you saying that christians believe the old testament wasn't the word of god? That doesn't make any sense to me. You're saying that the stories of Noah, Cain & Abel, Lott, Adam & Eve, etc... aren't taught as truth in christian sunday schools?

Doesn't really matter for my question though - I'm asking more about the god than the followers.

Narcanon is Scientology, BTW, and equally as screwed-up.

So, if the OT is out, then homosexuality is not an abomination in any way. (Romans was referring to Leviticus)

ok--who here has actually GONE to an AA meeting? Raise your hands.

I'm 43--I went to AA when I was 19. OBVIOUSLY it didn't fucking work for me and, personally, i hate those fuckers.

Now. Does that mean those who ARE successful in AA should give up and resume their alcoholic lives because Rkz says AA "doesn't work"-?
Fuck you rkz. You wouldn't know a your ass from a hole in the ground.

BTW--here's a read for you---I HATE YOU-DON'T LEAVE ME! check it out.

Look at a Bible, there are no chapters. The Bible is a collection of books, a library. Books that were written by different people over hundreds of years, and apply to a particular group at a particular time. The earliest were written many hundreds or even thousands of years after the fact. Written down oral histories of the Jewish tribes and what they perceived to be their relationship with God was.... which was on again, off again. Until the covenant was finally broken for good.

So Jesus comes along and offers a new deal to everyone, but even this wasn't written down for many years after because it was illegal. That new deal consisted of one commandment, not instructions on your day to day.

You can't put the Bible together into one continuous story, it's many stories, and most points of view expressed in any book have a diametrically opposed point of view in a different book. To quote a chapter/verse and say that's that is silly, because somewhere else it will say something else that doesn't agree or directly contradicts.

If you read the whole bible you still will have questions. The Bible scholars have wrestled with translations and interpretations forever. You can take it or leave it. It's called free will. But I still believe, "Love thy neighbor as thy self", is a good message and worthy of anyones consideration as a personal goal. I don't believe any group should be judged by the extremists every group has, or condemning the whole group unjustly.

Look at Wolfs thread about the wacko football fan. Does that mean all football fans should be condemned? Of course not, except Dallas fans.

I agree that the golden rule is a good one.... but why do you need all the rest of the crap in the bible to go along with it? All the rest of the stuff that seems to cause so much trouble in the world. Do unto others is much older and more universal than the christian bible.
As far as condeming others - I strongly agree with something Beestie said in a thread you started Bruce; Lawyers.... Yuk. Just exchange laywer for christian (or any other religious person for that matter).

Good point. Yes, I did violate that principle for an attractive headline. Thanks for pointing that out. I don't make an exception for myself and that was a gross error on my part.

Well, I still like you, even if I disagree with you sometimes, and I don't read nutty stuff into your posts.
I think people should get help where they don't want to indoctrinate them with crap that has nothing to do with getting over their addiction.
Wow, hate, whew.:rolleyes:
I have no trouble being alone, I enjoy it, to a fault and am as far from borderline as one can get. I am very forgiving, yet once one crosses the line they are dead to me. I do not tolerate chaos in my life.