Would you call the cops?
 

Today at work, one of my co workers was telling me about something that happened to her Grand daughter yesterday.

GD was walking home from school past the school bus stop when one of the boys flopped his member out and started rubbing himself up against her - masturbating.

GD called out to her brother who was some distance in front with his ipod stuck in his ears, so he didn't hear her.

The other 'boys' at the bus stop were egging the masturbator on.

Somehow GD got away (I don't have any details on how) and went home and told her mother.

Mother called the school and the boy has been suspended and the 'boys' have all been reprimanded.

Grandmother says they weren't intending to call the cops because the school is dealing with it. Also, that the perpetrator has what sounds to me like aspergers (grandma says he has something wrong with him where he doesn't understand boundaries) so she feels sorry for him to an extent.

My view is that it was sexual assualt and this girl is likely to be traumatised for some period of time if not long term. Also, this boy has committed a crime and the other 'boys' are almost as guilty.

What do you think? Should I call the police and report what is in my opinion a crime even though I wasn't there and all the info I have is third hand?

My first reaction is yes - call them right now. However, the difficulty lies in the fact that you are somewhat removed from the situation and all you've got is hearsay.

On the balance of that I'd still call them, and tell the story pretty much like you've told it here, filling in the relevant details. Then the ball's in their court, investigate or ignore.

What if you do nothing and something worse happens?

That's what I was trying to tell granny today. Even if the boy does have aspergers, that doesn't excuse what was 'alledgedly' done.

I think I'll call them tomorrow unless someone can give me a good reason not to.

Hmmm, tough one Ali.

I'm of the opinion to call, because yeah...what if something worse happens? That aside, what was done needs to be dealt with, this wasnt on school grounds (?) so, it should be the funstoppers that deal with it. What kinda message is GD getting here?

The problem is that you are so far removed and are gonna look like a bit of a twat because of the 3rd hand thing....but...if no one else is going to do anything about it...I'd say you need too.

Let us know how you go yeah? I'd be interested to hear what the police say.

Call the police? Sorry, but in my opinion it's none of your business. I know you want to help but it doesn't deal with you at all, no offense. I'm just saying you can voice your own opinion on the matter but it's not your right to do anything about something that has nothing to do with you. And I mean this in the nicest most supportive way. I disagree when outsiders try to take initiative on something that they don't need to take initiative against. Save it for the family and school, it's something you heard from the coworker, who's to say she got the whole story right either, you could be falsifying a bold statement in calling the cops.

Anyway how old are these kids? And is the boy mentally challenged?

they should beat him to death....with his own shoes....

I wonder where the boy's parents are on this thing. After he was suspended, were they like "Oh my god we have a demented pervert in the making" and went to get help or were they like "puh, he's just a boy." Whether anything is being done from the family's end would weigh a lot in my decision to notify authorities; in some cases it may be the only chance for the boy to get help. Whatever that help may be worth.

In some way, shape, or form, the boy needs to learn it was not acceptable behavior and that there are consequences to his actions.

if it was me and if i understand correctly you work with the GM, i would encourage her to speak with the boys parents and find out exactly how he is to be punished - because expelling him from school is not punishment - she needs to know how they are going to handle the situation. if measures aren't taken to ensure something is done - maybe the GD can get bigger brother to handle it.

"sexual assault"??? "traumatized"??? wow. How about "get over it"? We're all really getting to be a bunch of whiny drama queens and it sickens me.

Before anyone goes slinging "sexual assault" around, what about considering the age of the child(ren) involved? Because I know some 5-6 year olds that have been suspended/expelled under the "zero tolerance" policy for "sexual assault" - their actions being as innocent as kissing another child on a playground or looking up a skirt. Which is ridiculous. That's part of growing up. You go tell the teacher, and the teacher makes him sit out of recess and tells the parents. The end. It's inappropriate, but certainly not "assault".

If these are pre-pubescent children, I would let it go as far as the cops go. Perhaps the school should be notified so they can in turn notify the assaulter's parents who will hopefully explain the inappropriatness of his behavior to him, and enforce some kind of punishment or perhaps address his special needs in a different manner.


If the assaulter is handicapped, well, it might be best to let it go. Boys are boys, they're going to pull sh!t like this, especially when there's a group of them egging him on. Is it appropriate behavior? Hell no. But combine a handicap with peer pressure and you're going to have a slew of bad decisions on the part of that boy.


Now, if we're talking about teenagers... well... they're all little arseholes and it's best to ignore that kind of behavior lest they see how worked up you get over it and continue to illicit the reaction from you over and over again. School should be notified, parents notified so it can be addressed. But cops? That's going overboard.


Perhaps the GD would benefit from a woman's self defense course at the local dojo. I took one with my mom in my early teens, once a week for 6 weeks, and successfully learned how to avoid and defend an attack. For example, the GD might learn that if she were to forcefully take hold of assaulter's unit as he is rubbing it on her, and yank/twist it violently or simply deliver a swift kick/knee to the groin area, maybe assaulter wouldn't think it so fun to assault her anymore. Any young woman would benefit from learning how not to sit idly like a defenseless lump, and stand up for herself.


Please note, however, I am not being unsympathetic to the girl, and overly sympathetic to the boy. If it was MY kid doing the assaulting, I can guarantee you I'd whoop his ass into to next week. But, then, I'm not one of those parents who defends their kid's ill behavior and makes excuses for them. I'm just trying to be sympathetic to the way other people are raised and, unfortunately, this is the kind of sh!t you deal with your entire life. There's always going to be some jerkoff pissing you off. Just gotta focus on your own actions to be successful in avoidance and dealing with issues as they arise and not becoming victimized.

If the grandmother heard that the boy has aspergers or some other known condition, I'm sure the parents, the school, and various counselors are all involved. They have all probably been dealing with this condition for years. The parents are probably distraught. They want their kid to be able to lead as normal a life in society as possible, and probably see this as a terrible setback.

This is a really difficult situation. It would be great if there was a way for the boy to learn this was wrong and stop doing it. If it looks like that isn't sinking in, then maybe he shouldn't be in a regular school with everyone else. I doubt the cops have the tools to make this situation better for anyone, but if nobody else has the tools either, then maybe the cops should be involved.

Either way, it's not Ali's call to make. One of the parents or officials should be contacting the police, if at all.

If this is a situation where the families know each other, I can see why they didn't call the cops -- it's often better to keep that kind of situation between the families, at least if you know that the parents of the little creep will take the situation seriously. If it happened again, though, I would probably react more strongly. Unwanted sexual touching is a SERIOUS offense, not just "boys being boys."

I would have called the cops. The "school dealing with it" = no consequences for what is an extremely serious behavior.

As a coworker of the grandmother of the victim you would have, or if you were a parent?

Absolutely. My notion of conflict resolution might be different since I'm a mandated reporter, though.

smurfalicious says to get over it? If someone whips out their junk and rubs it on you, it's the textbook definition of sexual assault regardless of the age of the people doing it.

if the question is 'should YOU call the cops?' then, hell no. stay out of it. should you try to persuade your friend to, well, maybe. depends on the relationship you have. take care of your own kids. use it as an exapmle to educate them. other than that.....

Please bear with me, I know this story is not the same caliber, but does illustrate my point...

We had a situation where a strange man came into my front yard with two large (full-sized) schnauzers and he was “training” them. Now we have three miniature schnauzers and they were going nuts and my kids and wife were afraid to go outside. I went outside to ask him to take his dogs elsewhere. He began cussing me and threatening me in my own yard. One dog was chained to a post but the other was free and he had his whistle in his hand and I didn’t want him sending his dog to attack me so I got a camcorder and went back out. While taping, I got him say his name and his refusal to leave, so then I called out to neighbors to call the cops. During this time one of my friends walked up from two doors down and this man’s dog that was chained jumped up and bit him. He was able to get away from the dog. The police showed up and they called for an ambulance to check my friend out. They took both dogs away from the man. In our state, it is required that the animal be quarantined for at least 10 days. After that, it is up to Animal Control to determine what to do with the animal based on whether it has a history of biting. They called my friend and asked if he wanted them to put the dogs down. He said he didn’t want to press charges or have the dogs put down, but would get back with them before the 10 days were up. He called me for advice, and I said this: “Recently a boy in the news was attacked by a dog that bit his face and he will be scarred for life. That dog had been involved in a previous biting incident and that man did not have the dog put down. If he only knew that his decision could have saved this little boy from the pain and life long scars, he would have made a different decision. I bet he feels very bad now. Do you want that hanging over you if that ever happened?” He went ahead and decided to let them release the dogs to the owner. I hope they never attack another person. But the point here is, your friend needs to understand the POTENTIAL future consequences of their decision. I hope that helps.

PS. Here is the story I refer to: Settlement reached for small child attacked by landlord's dog - Our client, a 4-year old boy, was attacked in his driveway by a Golden Retriever. The dog was owned by the landlord. The landlord was close to the dog, but the dog was not on a leash at the time of the attack. The boy was bitten in the face and lip, sustaining permanent scarring and irregularity of the lip. A lawsuit was filed and depositions (statements under oath) of the dog owner and his neighbors revealed that the dog had attacked and bitten another child in the face one year prior to attacking our client.

A Golden? They're usually very docile. It's the little yappers you gotta worry about. ;)

Exactly the same here.

Call the cops. I would have called the cops. What's the downside here? If the boy's innocent, no harm no foul. If the boy's guilty then the consequences should be borne.

For pete's sake, under what circumstances would this be ok? I have a daughter. I have sons too. I'm trying to think of any situation where this is not a big problem. Kids old enough to be waiting at a bus stop unsupervised are abso-freakin-lutely old enough to know this is completely unacceptable.

So, parents, imagine your child on either end of this exchange. No biggie? Not for me.

My daughter is in second grade. There's a boy in her class who I believe is autistic. Not sure. Nobody has told us or the other parents what the name of his condition is, but there is a special teacher in the classroom just for him. He sounds very similar to the boy here. This guy doesn't make connections with other kids the way you and I are used to kids behaving. He doesn't have empathy. My daughter is nice to him and patient with him, but doesn't really consider him a friend. I think he likes her more than he likes most of the other kids in the class.

Couple months ago, he walked up to her while she was sitting at her desk working in class, and he punched her in the head. He did this to a couple other kids the same week. Over the course of the year, there had been other more minor incidents as well.

Our daughter understands how his condition makes him more likely to do things like what he did. She doesn't hold it against him. But we didn't want her to grow up thinking that it's OK to be somebody's punching bag. We didn't want her to feel like his needs were more important than hers. So even though the incident was over and had been handled by the teacher, we talked to everyone at the school. Both teachers. The principal. The guidance counselor.

The school's reaction was awesome. They moved him to a different location in the classroom so our daughter isn't in his field of view. The teacher has more support from the school administration. Everyone is focusing more attention on the situation, and it has improved dramatically.

Maybe I'm lucky to have such a good school, but I can't help thinking that a school has better resources than the cops do for dealing with something like this. If I were the parent of any of the kids involved, and the school wasn't responsive, then I would call the cops.

Totally with Radar on this. Sexual (masturbation even if you don't count exposure) assualt (act perpetrated on someone unwilling). End of.

I agree with the above, too. But the way in which the incident was described goes beyond childhood curiousity. If it turns out the boy in question was 6 I will readdress my response, but the school still needs to be involved in a case of simulated masturbation even at this age

No. If this is assault it still needs to be addressed, but I agree with glatt that it needs to be addressed by those competent to do so. If the school has been informed and the boy/ teen suffers from any kind of disability then it will already have been flagged to his family/ counsellors. If someone already has recognised behavioural problems - whether they have a social or medical cause - they need to be addressed before that person escalates to more dangerous behaviour. If this boy has Aspergers then it will be taken into account by the authorities already dealing with the case - a mental condition is not a carte blanche to assault other members of society.

Ali, I don't think you should contact the police. You are too removed from the situation and without first hand knowledge might be reporting a skewed perception of events. Just tell your co-worker that you think she should follow this up with the school and as a family member she should raise her concerns that this is serious incident. I doubt the school will be able to go into details of the other pupil's situation, but they may be able to set her mind at rest re the suspension being the end of the matter.

After re-reading the original post, I can't but help but be reminded of Richard Hatch when he rubbed his nakie parts up against Sue Hawk on Survivor All-Stars. I mean my gosh, if a grown woman freaked out like she did, how much more traumatic for a child?

I also know from personal experience. When I was 14, I was in a department store minding my own business when this creepy guy twice my size walks between me and the clothes I was looking at and grabs my crotchity area. I was immediately embarrassed and angry and could only think of getting away. When he started following me around, I ran (and I mean ran) out to the car to get my step dad’s gun so that I could protect myself. My mom stopped me and took me home. Then I had to re-live the very embarrassing scene by explaining in detail in to my step dad (who was a Sheriff Deputy) and to my mom what he did. They never did anything about it and I held it against them for a very long time.

That poor little girl is probably going through similar feelings and I feel extremely bad for her. Shame on her family for not doing everything they can to make sure she feels safe and comfortable going back to the school or going past that bus stop.

Ask grandma' "is the school DOING something to ENSURE he CANNOT do this again". If the answer is anything but a resounding "YES", call.

This is unfair. There's nothing in the original post that states the girl feels unsafe now with the action her family has already taken.

I'm with LJ. The school knows about it and has acted, which means everyone involved knows. There are plenty of people, directly involved, and fully cognizant of what happened, to find a solution. Butt out.

Was Grandma asking for advice or just sharing the gossip? If it's the former doesn't she trust her children to do whats right?

Hmmm...you may be right. My parents were certainly oblivious. Have you ever experienced a painful memory when you pass a certain spot, hear a certain phrase, or hear the name of a person that has harmed you in some way? If so, then you can surmise she will, too. Hopfully she will have the memory limited to the boy and not about her family's reaction, like I do. Just sharing a POV. Thanks glatt for pointing that out.

Or she might laugh about it with her girlfriends, at a pajama party, down the road. We can't project what we think she should, could, would, feel.

maybe they should throw the kid into prison for a day and he can see how it feels to have someone much bigger than himself, who also has problems telling right from wrong, rubbing up against him. :drevilpinky2lip

Or maybe she will post it online as a random anecdote (the link is a Cellar post - my brief encounter with a verbal pervert).

I was very distressed at the time, and yes I felt dirty and violated. I put it in perspective given time, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest now. But it happened at an age I still had to leave the room when feminine hygiene products were advertised. Don't underestimate young'uns sensitivity, but don't overestimate its affect on their life as a whole.

Yeah, but it's strictly speculation. Concrete action based of speculation is unwise.

The girl is 15. The boy is about the same age. The school have told the family of the girl that 'after they've dealt with the situation they can call the police if they like'.

This sort of thing stays with a person for a long time. I don't think it's something she's likely to joke about in the future. She was terrified from what grandmother told me. She's now having counselling. So is her brother.

My issue is that i know the school and I know the reputation of the school and I'm certain they'd be doing everything they can to stay out of the public eye. If the cops get involved, there's a chance the media will too, and that's why I believe they haven't called.

Aside from that, the school has a duty of care for that student till they get home from school if they're going directly home, which this girl was. In my honest opinion, they've failed in that duty of care by not reporting a crime.

I still have not decided whether to call the police or not. I hope GM does or can convince her daughter to. Maybe someone else's mother will.

What is stuck in my mind is that if this boy can do this now, what about when he's bigger and stronger. What's he going to be capable of then? As far as it goes, I don't think he should be excused just because he has a mental illness (if in fact he does). What if he'd strangled her or something? Would he be excused then because he didn't know what he was doing?

A crime is a crime no matter who commits it. Isn't it up to the justice system to ensure the safety of society? Shouldn't they be the ones to determine if this boy is fit to live unsupervised in society? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he should be locked up or anything, but perhaps he shouldn't be out from adult supervision if he can't control such a base instinct.

One final thing. If I did call, it would be as a member of the community and I would simply tell the story as I know it and allow the police to contact the school. In my opinion as I mentioned previously, I think the school needs to be sorted out for not reporting it themselves.

So you don't think the girls parents have the right to decide?

I guess I don't.

Tough call. Morally. Politically and Legally, yup, reckon it's their call. But Morally?

What does the girl think?
Do they have the right to protect their daughter from futher trauma?
Do they have the right to possibly siubject others to the same trauma and worse?
Are they thinking just of their daughter?
Are they thinking of the notoriety they will gain if they press charges?

etc

She's 15?

That's different...

I'd say call.

Then how about waiting until the school is finished what they have in mind and if the parents don't call as the school said was their option, then decide. Nobody's going anywhere, are they?

fyi aspergers does not preclude someone flopping thier penis out...in fact quite the opposite! There would be someother problem with the boy. aspergers is not a behavioral problem:mad2:



*ummm just thinking about boundries and whos problem it really is*

:neutral: I don't think Ali said anything about Aspergers being behavioural or precluding someone from "flopping their penis out".....

she didnt? then who did?

I see someone did...ali thought enough of it to quote it as such.

correction is ok I think monster...

Sure, sorry, was just confused that you seemed so mad at something that didn't seem to be there to me. We all have our touchy issues.

I am not mad at all. Just :blunt:


plus my kid as aspergers....or used to. (growing out of)

anyway....

sometimes in my wildest dreams I imagine the most average of behaviors like ,,,,,anything.

There is a missunderstanding here that needed correction.
Autism and Aspergers is all about someone being wrapped up....too much being correct and shy.
I am a specialist in autism too so I don't appreciate labels being thrown around and yes she did say it sounded like aspergers to her.

Then to talk about boundries while not excercising ones own.
I'm not a bitch...just :bitching: and :blunt:

With ALL due respect to each of you and your opinions... I guess my points are:

Overreacting and/or acting out of emotion rather than common sense only complicates the issue. First, the kid's a jerk, his actions are inexcusable - no question about that. The school has a legal duty to handle it, including removing the boy from the bus, possible suspension, and conferencing with the parents including nailing down specific repercussions for any future "assaults". At age 15 he certainly knows better, and, at age 15, he's intentionally being a jerk. It's doubtful that his intent was "sexual assault"; more likely, his intention was to illicit a reaction from the girl. Which he clearly got.

Unless this kid has a history of this kind of behavior, many of you are being quite judgmental by assuming he's a serial masturbator or pervert in the making and is going to take this to the next step. Likely, he was being a jerk, under peer pressure, nothing more.

Second, it's my impression that this girl may have some underlying psychological issues that need to be addressed ASAP if she let this upset her THAT much - so much, in fact, that she needs counseling. I'm getting the impression that she is quite immature, sheltered, and emotionally and socially stunted.

Hey, when I was 7, I had a little boy my age forcefully enter a bedroom to look at me nekkid and try to touch my little booty. I was upset for 5 minutes. I told the appropriate authority figures (not cops) about it and trusted them to handle it. When I was 15, I had a boy trap me in a seat and forcefully kiss me and feel my ta-tas on the bus. I slapped the crap out of the boy and if I could have kicked him in the cajones, I would have (I settled for his shin). If I would have cried like a helpless little girl, no doubt he would have continued to mess with me. But I stood up to him, and he never bothered me again.

Neither incident scarred me for life. Again, I'll reinforce what i stated earlier about this girl not being so goddam helpless and maybe taking a self-defense class - nobody on here thinks that's - even remotely - a good idea?????

Not to be cliche, but to be cliche anyway: you get more with honey than you do with vinegar. Approaching the school and the parents is clearly appropriate. Going to the cops without giving the school and parents a chance to correct the problem is unjust and, IMHO, just plain vindictive.

This kid is screaming for attention which is why he did what he did. Making a huge deal out of it is only going to give either a good kid who made a mistake a bad rap, or a bad kid the negative attention and rep he wants. It will also have repercussions on the girl - kids see a weakness and they go after it (see Darwin) - that I don't think she wants or, given her fragile state, can handle.[/list]

I have a 7 year old daughter. I also had a 14 year old stepson who couldn't keep himself under control or out of jail. I believe I have, at least somewhat, seen both sides of the fence - from the perspective of a parent attempting to safeguard their child from the acts/influences of another child, to a parent struggling with a rebellious, violent, criminal youth.

No doubt, I would not be happy if someone rubbed their weiner on my daughter. And I'll admit my initial *thought* would be "Where is this kid so I can give him a firm foot in his a$$?" But I'm raising my girl to understand that she will have to deal with certain unpretty things in life. And I'm teaching her to be strong - not weak - and deal with it and get over it. You don't let something like this - something relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things - handicap you. The last thing anyone in our society needs is another excuse for someone (mommy/daddy/therapist) or something (drugs, illicit or otherwise) to "solve" their problems.

I don't see where you are getting this. No where does it say she was "THAT" upset. If I'm missing something about how upset she was in these posts, please show me. And even if she were that upset it is her right to feel however she wants.

Nowadays, I'd kick his balls off. When I was young and was accosted in a bookstore, of all places, I was ashamed and embarrassed and this is the first time I've ever told anyone.

sky...with regard to my comment about aspergers, GM simply said that he's got some disorder where he doesn't recognize boundaries and or things that're inappropriate.

That's a classic symptom of aspergers which is why I suggested that perhaps that might be the issue. My purpose in mentioning it was to ensure that everyone had as much info as I had in order to give me advice.

Smurf...you have a right to your opinion. Thanks for your advice.

To those of you who suggested that this is just 'boys being boys'. I disagree. This is totally outside the boundaries of boys being boys.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/t...drome-Symptoms
You are wrong ali. It is not a classic symptom.

Your teen with Asperger's syndrome (like other teens) will want friends but may feel shy or intimidated when approaching other teens. He or she may feel "different" from others. Although most teens place emphasis on being and looking "cool," trying to fit in may be frustrating and emotionally draining for teens with Asperger's. They may be immature for their age and be naive and too trusting, which can lead to teasing and bullying.All of these difficulties can cause teens with Asperger's to become withdrawn and socially isolated and to have depression or anxiety.


These are the Classic traits
Their preference for rules and honesty may lead them to excel in the classroom and as citizens.
Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. However, scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson.



ome traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. However, scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson.

Other conditions

Many children with Asperger's syndrome also have coexisting conditions and may have symptoms of these conditions as well. They include:
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
Anxiety disorder.
Depression, especially in adolescents.
Nonverbal learning disorder.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD).
Social anxiety disorder.



whatever don't take my word for it...in fact don't take documents word for it either. Carry on.

I am aware of all those things sky. I have some experience in the area myself.

If you deny that people with aspergers sometimes have trouble recognising boundaries then I guess that's fine. That's not what the discussion is about and really doesn't matter. I don't have the skills to diagnose something like that. All I could do was suggest that possibly that could have been it, which is what I did.

I'm not trying to lable this boy in any way. In fact, I'm suggesting he should be treated the same as anyone else while taking into account whatever his problem is.

If you have an axe to grind, start a thread about it.

Thanks for your input.

Would you disagree that naive and trusting people who are susceptible to bullying are perhaps more likely than your average person to accept a dare to perform socially inappropriate behaviour?

yes I disagree.

of course one has to consider IQ level, parenting and other diagnosis which would be more in line with this this type of display.

A fifteen year old knows better. A fifteen year old smart kid with no other diagnosis besides aspergers would not. Why? because his concrete thinking would tell him the only time he pulls his penis out of his pants is for taking a piss, doctors exams and sex.

You forgot swordfighting and the "who's bigger?" contest.

oh lol

yeah...what grade? *grin*


ok I'm done trying to educate. :P

peace out!

Grade? I thought we were talking the corporation workforce...

I would say leave it up to your coworker, but you should definitely encourage her too.

I would not care if the kid had Asperger's or not, it is not important.
Again, find out if the school is going to see to it that he is going to be made UNABLE to do this to her again. AT ALL.
If not, call the cops.
It is VERY simple.