Sexual Harassment @ Work
 

Psychology Today has an article entitled, "Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature". Truth #10 is....
So you see, equality isn't all it's cracked to be. What you really want, ladies, is preferential treatment.

so, men harass women because they're just sluts and can't help themselves? Don't believe that, nor do I believe that motive makes the behavior innoccuous.

Did it ever occur to you that you're not being harassed? The fact that you feel offended does not mean anyone actually did anything wrong, other than in your mind.

Damn straight.

I would agree, that is until the woman tells the man that they feel like they are being sexually harassed. The problem is that most woman do not speak up until they become increasingly agitated and then drop the bomb saying that they had to endure XXXX-months-years of this "hostile work environment". When all along all they had to do was to speak up on the first and few subsequent incidents and maybe no one would have been hurt or fired. Certainly the argument can be easily made that the man should not have done it in the first place, given. That is not the issue, IMHO. Most work environments have strong rules about sexual harassement and how it is dealt with. People just need to follow the rules or pay the price of their actions, or in my example, inactions.

If I say to a man, "nice tie", that's certainly acceptable.... unless I'm openly queer. Then it could be deemed sexual harassment by a homophobe and his complaint would be considered serious by management desperately trying to be politically correct.

With women, it becomes infinitely more complicated. If I say nice blouse, I have to worry about her feeling I said it in a salacious manner. Or she felt I was leering at the time. Then I stand accused of creating a hostile workplace when the hostility is hers.


Oh, and I can't say her hair smells nice... if I'm a midget.

how about drilling a hole through the wall of the women's restroom so they can watch the ladies go to the bathroom? or staring at your secretary's boobs, snapping her bra strap, and finally groping her boobs, after being repeatedly asked to stop the behavior? Or the guy who gave his coworker a rufie, coaxed her to the storeroom, and raped her after she wouldn't go out with him?

These are actions from actual cases I've been involved in. But--women are entirely taking these actions from the poor misunderstood guys out of context--right?

Now, I've also been involved in cases where the "sexual harassment" has been misinterpreted, blown out of proportion, or just plain fabricated for a variety of reasons, mostly money, so I agree that sometimes it can happen.

But guys, don't pat yourselves on the back too much thinking that it's all a case of Venus/Mars misunderstanding--it's not. Sexual harassment is real, and a real problem in the workplace.

I agree, and anyone who has worked in the government in the last 20 years knows just how serious it is, and just how overblown it has become, and just how manipulative individuals can be if they think they are getting back at you for something if you are a supervisior. That sword has two edges.

it's like any problem--before you can control it, you have to drag it out in the open, make it register on people's consciousness, make it a big deal for a while. Otherwise, the problem gets ignored, obfuscated, and not dealt with, leaving those people who are truly victims with no recourse.

It is real. Every case is not the same, however. I think the point Merc made about it not being harrassment until the woman says she feels she is being harrassed actually has a lot of merit. There are I think may instances where women have perceived men to be harrassing them and the man has intended no such thing. If the woman comments on feeling uncomfortable and the man persists then he is wilfully engaging in behaviour that makes a woman feel harrassed.

That said there are plenty of cases of men using greater rank or seniority as a lever with female coworkers and subordinates. I remember working at a clothes shop when I was in my early twenties and the guy who ran the clothes shop was a complete twat. He particularly picked on the younger, saturday workers and new school leavers. He used to encourage 'his girls' to wear new lines of clothing in store to show them off. I caught him once, stood on the stairs, using a mirror to spy on this 16 year old whilst she was changing in the staff area. Another girl, 17, he frightened the shit out of having had her work late stocktaking, by giving her a lift home and stopping on a country lane to try his luck.

That's a fairly extreme case, but I know of plenty of genuine cases of women being subjected to highly intimidating behaviour, or alternatively being subjected to a complete and devastating character assassination, or constructive dismissal for the heinous crime of not fancying/sleeping with/accepting unpleasant advances from their boss.

I think the idea that this is just men continuing their age old strategies of contest within work relationships has some resonance. I also think that men (like women) are more in control of their baser instincts than the article credits them with being.

Agree, 100%.

That's what I'm doing.

I find the women that work in a blue collar environment are as disgusted/amused with the corporate PC bullshit as the men. Probably because they have men cow orkers, that are friends, and will step in if things get out of hand. There are occasional cases of genuine harassment, just as there are occasional cases of women using the rules for revenge/profit.

However, the white collar women are quick to complain about what they perceive as "inappropriate behavior", real or imagined.

Of course I'm speaking of a work environment with thousands of people... and a union, which always offers recourse.

Cow workers:

http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/vetreport/su...mages/cows.jpg

I thought the same. "So what's wrong with preferentail treatment?"
Hot tea served by the cute male assistant....no wait...that's sexual harrasment huh?


ok..all kidding aside I think the word 'hostile enviroment' is misused.

I can't imagine anyone gasping if a man said their blouse was nice unless he was peering down into the cleavage with his specticles.

Infact I didn't like that entire article. Maybe I'm dumb and didn't catch on that these are really 10 myths?

I am not accepting the trial offer at the end of the page. Psychology today is becomming tabloid I guess. :yelsick:

It's not cow workers, it's cow orkers.

If you grab his package, and he doesn't like it, it is. Otherwise, it sounds like a nice set up...;)

Thats how I define sexual harassment in *my* work place.

If I dont like it, its harassment (which could just mean I dont find you hot enough), if you dont like it....theres the door honey.

About the word honey.

When handed out like candy from strangers it annoys me but I wouldn't call it harrassment.

I do like the word honey in intimate personal ways though.


@Blue...I don't have that set up. It was just a nice image. :)

@ ducks...do you mean grabbing his package or making hot tea ? :p

Or, grabbing his package whilst he makes hot tea?

well, spilling hot tea on his package would definitely be harassment of some kind.

You do realize the conversation in the last 5 posts constitutes sexual harassment, by creating an uncomfortable work environment, in todays corporate America.

I think you just defined English porn.

So how do you define harrassment from general work banter we're all supposed to adults in the work place it's got so bad now with the PC brigade now that most people can't define where the line is drawn so everything is banned.
I have worked in my office for over 20 years and we are no longer allowed ofice parties at Xmas because the orginisation is scared of getting sued if someone gets drunk and falls over.Office romances are a sackable offence..nights out are frowned upon as employment law considers them to be an extention of the workplace and if anything happens again the employer is worried about litigation.
It's all complete bullshit.

What be-bop said!

Too many people have too-thin skin!

That's MY take on it.

As in Monty Python's english comedy porn?


I've not watched porn but I am assuming our english porn uses whip cream, chocolate, honey or some other sweet thing or immediatly bypassing the scalding hot touture and and warping in to s&m.

Uh huh, that's why I don't talk that way at work.

Oh wait, I was at work when I posted my little comment. :o

But seriously...I've only heard talk like that at one, maybe two places I've worked (except it was about women, not men). Practically all of the co-workers I've ever had could think of plenty of other things to talk about, besides how much they liked someone's ta-tas, or whatever.

One place where I worked, there was a guy who could think of little else to talk about. It was weird--every time he'd make a comment, he'd look at me with this creepy smile, as if he was waiting for me to react, I guess. I never did, though. One day, he proudly showed me the bikini girl calendar he had just posted in our office. Was he hoping I'd say he should take it down? I suspected he did, especially after what happened the next day. He walked into the office in the morning to see a Chippendale's calendar right next to his girlie one...and he got so upset he turned bright red. (I was surprised, I thought he'd have more of sense of humor about it. Oh well.)

He took down his calendar (I was nice and took mine down, too), and he never made a rude comment to me ever again. In fact, we kind of became friends after that.

I must admit most places I've worked in haven't had that much of a problem with that stuff. The last formal job I had, we all just used to take the piss out of each other. Sometimes the banter got a little blue about the edges, nobody minded. Richard, for instance, used to do a belting impression of Michael Palin in LIfe of Brian and so was ever more christened Biggus Dickus. Wendy was always The Tart with a Heart. Parties generally involved a lot of alcohol and a theme for dressing up and someone always ended up snogging. Nobody minded. Management pretty much left us to it. Except for the centre manager who joined in. I will never forget her standing on a table, dressed in a party frock belting out show tunes (she used to sing and dance on cruise liners).

We were a bitchy bunch and someone was always upset with someone else......but I only recall one guy getting accused of sexual harrassment. Or rather i got told the story, happened a few years before my time. He still worked at the chambers, but hadn't got the promotion he wanted. He put it down to having been accused of harrassment (probably justified knowing bob) everyone else put it down to him being a) a miserable bugger, b) a bit creepy, in a he-probably-has-an-ex-wife-buried-under-the-patio kind of a way and c) general incompetance.

we have a local radio station with a male dj who has been, for the last few days, talking about taking the female dj to a nudist colony/camp this week. he has been there before (i don't think he truly practices this type of lifestyle) he's just making a big joke out of it. she, if i understand correctly, is as well. needless to say they get all sorts of calls during their "time on the radio" asking about photos and such - would this constitute harassment or because she doesn't make a fuss, no biggie. could this cause "flack" for the radio station - i doubt it - it seems like a glorified way of getting "listeners" for their station.

yeah, I think that's a special case

I agree with Cloud, just show biz.

Of course, hot tea to the 'nads or the taco is uncomfortable in the home environment also.

Warm feeling, yeah, but everybody notices too.

:3_eyes: Especially when you ejaculate -- a comment, a comment! -- upon it.

I don't believe people become 'desexualized' just because they go to work. There are always going to be attractions in the work place. Sometimes they go both ways, sometimes only one. It's the 'one way' attractions that end up becoming sexual harrasment cases.

When someone's not interested, most people get the idea pretty quickly. A few don't.

Incidentaly, I once left a job because one of the managers kept learing down my top and when I told him to stop, he made my life hell.

I was young and stupid. I should have reported him. I did not.

Or not worn a bra to make him nuts.

Well, I was too innocent and naive back then to think of anything except getting away from the situation. This person was a famous sporting personality at the time and so it would have been a big scandal if I'd said anything.

The reason I think I should have reported it is because I have since found out that he did it to women before and after me. For all I know he's still up to the same tricks.

Arsehole.

Cow Orkers

Something odd happened at the last place I worked.
I had been in management before and had extensive EEOC training.
So, once I was in management, I stopped all "borderline" activity/speech.
My coworkers, new and old, all knew me, started acting in a very strange way... then a few asked why I was being "stiff" or did not "laugh at _____'s joke", etc.
So, I told them.
That did not seem odd.
What happened next did.
Some stopped talking to/around me at all.
Some became very raunchy around me.
Some came on to me often.
Some stayed the same, but sometimes asked if their behavior bothered me.
Only a few stayed the same with no changed and all of them had been in management from somewhere else, usually a government job.
What is the deal?

Don't flirt on the job, don't talk about sex and don't ask if someone's pregnant.
It's very simple.

I don't care if my workers are sexualized or not, they need to channel that energy into their job if they are so wound-up.