With Turnover High, Schools Fight for Teachers
 

With Turnover High, Schools Fight for Teachers
Cops and teachers... you get what you pay for.
I taught public school, before teaching community college, for less than a year.... things are better now than they were when I did it, but I still would not do it for what they pay.
It is a JOKE.
Blaming teachers for the system is crazy.
Garbage men and women are paid better and get better benefits than teachers (they are where they should be, I am saying the teacher's union is corrupt and broken) and people wonder why we can't get devoted, focused outstanding individuals in numbers to teach our kids?
Those people are idiots.
We deserve what we get and WE are DOING this to our kids.

Raise pay and benefits, more and better people will want the jobs and you can ask more of them as far as education, hours, devotion, etc.
It IS that simple.
See what administrators get paid compared to teachers in your area and then you will SEE clearly what the problem is.

About two or three years ago, Texas implemented a policy that anyone with a bachelor's degree in the appropriate topic could with very little effort become certified to teach that topic in high schools, without actually going through the typical multi-year University course accreditation. This helped lessen the shortage tremendously.

My mother-in-law, sister-in-law, and two aunts are all teachers, and they were all vehemently against this legislation when it came out. Basically to them it amounted to being told that they had no special skill at their jobs, anyone off the street could do it. The difference, as I tried to explain to them, is that they all teach elementary school and younger. A kindergarten teacher can reasonably be expected to need various classes in child psychology, developmental processes, etc. A high school teacher, however, does not. Sure, it's nice to have that sort of preparation, but high schools today have much more important problems to focus on.

I definitely agree that raising pay would help, but only to a certain degree--private schools typically pay teachers less than public schools, and yet are harder to get jobs in, because those jobs are inherently more desirable to the teachers. Students have to improve to allow the teachers to improve to help the students improve... I think we should seriously consider the concept of vocational schools as an alternative to high schools for those students who would find that environment more appropriate. Section off the kids who don't care and the ones that remain will be able to get a much better education.

I also agree with that.
Disruptive students need to be removed from classes of students that want to learn.

w-w-what???? I thought they just needed to be "educated" Weren't you touting that in the spanking thread?? Why is it different here?

Put away the broad brush. Education is still mostly a state and local issue despite the Bush/Kennedy disaster. Florida is not New York.

You were clearly living in the wrong state ... average here is $52K, with a lot of teachers making well above the mean ... and that's just base salary, and doesn't take into account the extra money for doing stuff like being a club advisor, sports coach, or whatever. Might not be superfantastic by business world standards, but it's not the pittance that teachers once were paid ... I got out of an education program in college because the expected pay was around $18K at that time.

I'm not a teacher, or even play one on TV, but it seems to me that high school hormone factories would require teachers with all those extra skills.
At least from memory (ok, looong memory) and from what I see on the news, discipline was, and has become, a major problem in high and Jr high schools. They not only need the extra training but hand to hand combat skills, as well.

In this area, teachers had fallen behind the inflation curve in the 70s but they doubled their pay over a ten year period in the 80s/90s. After a few years, with a masters, $60/$75k and retire at 55 with 85% pay, is not exactly slave wages.

The days of the downtrodden underpaid teachers have been over for some time.

I missed the part where I stated that we needed to hit them, please point that out.
I see where Bruce gets what he does about your reading skills.

That's why you want the job so badly.

Huh? Did someone say something pertinent? I didn't think so.

I know someone who went to Turnover High. Most of them were of Dutch descent, i.e. Danish. They had a killer cafeteria. Naturally, Culinary Arts were big in the Vocational School. But, those sons of biscuits had three months off every summer...got paid for a full year! Most of the families had a lot of dough, but the kids were a bunch of pale pastry pansy-asses. So many of them went on to become teachers, then actors, then firemen, then astronauts, then ditch diggers, then microbiologists, then dog walkers, then shoemakers, then astronomers, then truck drivers, then electrical engineers, then ambassadors, then butlers, then tailors.

Well, if just one day could go by without yet another story about such-and-such teacher fucking such-and-such student(s)...

Clearly the skills they need include keeping their hands to themselves and concentrating on the curriculum.

Keep telling me why it is such a great job and then tell me what other career you have to have a second job to make it during your time off.
Also, teachers have to have continuing education, which we do during that break.
Speak of what you know.

When I say disruptive students I am talking about students that take too much time from the rest of class.
Yes, teach them in class, but there is a point where some kids refuse to learn, or cannot, and need special classes.
It is not fair to the students that CAN and WILL behave in classes to have their education sacrificed because administration refuses to empower teachers. It is a common problem because they don't want to "offend" the parents of the kids with the problem.
Most teachers will say "let me talk to them".

:mecry:

Eloquent as always.
Edit:
Which is fine, I don't care if you don't know anything about it by choice, as long as you NEVER bitch about the state of young people where you live because of how you and your local society chooses to treat your teachers.

Ooooh, what if I do? I'm scared.

You don't know what I know and do not know. You're just doing what you always do, belittling and being a general jackass. Good enough for me!

I'll disregard the first comment of your post since you adressed it later in another, but when the hell has Bruce EVER said anything about my reading skills? ever???

Please cite.

Damifino?
All I said is you're ugly.

Thank you rk, that is a much better response. Very cogent, direct and succinct, unlike many of your recent posts. For example - what you just said to S123. You have some good points - just make 'em an move on - its not like she's tw or anything.

I don't think he was talking about what we have in common.

This is all so sweet, I can barely stand the love. Group grope! :grouphug:

Ha ha ha... touché!

As you call me a jackass, ROFLMAO! :D

i ate a turnover high the other day, if it matters

Only if you can't remember what the flavor was AND can't find you other flip flop.

Apple turnover UT? I like blueberry best.

You also have to differentiate between grade school and high school teachers. High school teachers are paid more.

Screw all this, I'll be sending my kids to private school.

Oh like that'll make a difference - actually we all say that till we have them and have to pay for them.

Not an issue at all. If some extra money means my kids won't have to sit there teaching themselves math while their teacher has to cater to some delinquent who doesn't give a rat's ass, then it's totally worth it. I can't solve the problem anyway, if can shield my kids, I will.

Been there, done that, homeschooling now.

I've been thinking about going to teach at our local community college...could be a good experience for me and the peeps to be taught, especially since I rule.

Seriously...I'm about to lose my fucking mind delivering pizzas. That's a job to nowhere, and my home business is nowhere near profitable (or even really together) at this point.

A little careful selection when you're choosing the neighborhood you want to live in will accomplish the same thing for free. Keep in mind that "some extra money" will range anywhere from $6,000 to $20,000 a year, assuming it isn't a boarding school.

You trust LJ more to teach your kids than a teacher?
Well, at least your kids'll have an... ample vocabulary.

I know where you are coming from 9th - the problem is a little reality sets in - the cost is very prohibative. I moved out of state to get into one of the best school ditricts in the region. I paid more for my house, my property taxes tripled and I'm still waaaay ahead on the cost end. Most importantly my kids have/are getting a great education(s). I drive further to work, deal with other issues and pay income taxes in two states blah, blah, blah - my kids are getting a great education! There are alternatives, thats my point. They just require some innovative thinking sometimes.

In Search of Good Teachers
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/opinion/29wed4.html

With 50 million children set to return to school, districts all over the country are still scrambling to fill teaching positions and are having an especially difficult time finding qualified applicants to fill shortages in vital areas like math and science. These shortages will persist and the education reform effort will continue to lag until states, localities and the federal government start paying much more attention to how teachers are trained, hired and assigned.

The problem was underscored by a front page article in The Times this week by Sam Dillon, which describes shortages so severe that some officials were seeking to fill positions by scooping up any warm body they could find. Better overall salaries and financial incentives for teachers who work in demanding areas are necessary. But the country must also adopt measures that increase the supply of high-quality teachers — especially in math and science — while cutting down on the distressingly large number of teachers who bail out of the profession early.

Public colleges and universities, which rely heavily on tax dollars, are a good place to start. The government should require them to turn out more high quality teachers of all kinds, especially math and science teachers. Ideally, the enrollments at these colleges of education should be based not on whim, but on projected need. The states should find ways to reward colleges that turn out excellent graduates, while shutting down diploma mills. The states and localities should also develop comprehensive plans not just for hiring, but for mentoring and retaining teachers as well.

Beyond that, large urban districts, especially ones with particularly needy school districts, need to abandon union work rules that give senior teachers the right to change schools whenever they wish — even if the receiving principal doesn’t want them. That forces out less senior teachers in the receiving school, a bumping process that can continue well into the summer. It both frustrates younger teachers and prevents school administrators from making timely hiring decisions.

I wonder how many of, "the distressingly large number of teachers who bail out of the profession early, bail out to get away from the increasing load of bullshit, like peanutbutter patrol, in addition to their teaching duties?

A lot of teachers are getting out of teaching because they're tired of bringing up other people's kids. They're tired of having to teach things like basic manners.

That is an issue.
It was also discouraged to call parents in to discuss it with them.

Behavioral Disorders in the class.
 

You are both right in your own way.
It really depends on the needs of the child.
My Son has Impulse Control Disorder, which is not understood in the medical community, so how could it be understood in the class room.
Autistics are starting to get their own classes now, but a school could not focus on all disorders that exist.
At the same token, special education classrooms are being filled with children whom are in an infintile stage. Why are we paying for babysitters in an educational facility, but it is mandatory to be provided.
Some teachers simply need more instruction to deal with behavioral disorders, but currently the focus is on ADD/HD.

In public school my Son was developing violent habbits.
Now his KG teacher was unopen to new ideas so he was pulled and kept home for a year to undevelop those habbits.
He was placed in first gr. at a different school, and his teacher was great, but he was too distracted by the social aspect and lost interest in learning.
Now we use virtual school, and he completed 2 grades last year and is currently in 4th at age 8. He enjoys learning and we are able to help develop his social skills, while improving upon his academics and his refound love of learning.

As for school funding, what ever happened to fundraisers.
We always had fund raisers while I attended school.
And some problems go right to the communities unwillingness to pay higher taxes.
In 1800s the community that used a school payed for the school

Yeah, they should have more lamington drives.

Oh, come teach here! Come on, it'll be fun (for me!) :)

The home-schooled students we see are generally better equipped, and tend to excel almost effortlessly. Do you think it's because of the one-on-one, or the fact that parents know better than anyone their own kids' learning styles?

I don't have too many complaints about our local schools, here in Golden *yet* but I have considered homeschooling before. I can't seem to get past the fact that the social environment is very different and has to be somehow supplemented. Jinx, I am sure you have some way of doing this with your kids. I just don't know how I could provide enough of that without being a complete social butterfly, myself. (I am very shy in real life.)

Social
 

You pick the place and times and let the kid do the rest.
Go to your local library. Chances are your kids friends already do.
Ours has thursday after school movies, pj parties, and once a month home school book club.
Also 14 of his own class mates live on our block.

Also visiting parks after school allows them to meet up with friends.

I think a large part of it is because by definition, parents who homeschool are parents who care. Kids with parents who care will do better whether they are in public school or not.

My old high school system turned to hell during my last few years. Basically all the best teachers left out to retirement since they were getting to that age and troubles within the district for very young and inexperienced (bad) teachers.

Our whole school system should be redone in my opinion but that would be a long process.

Absolutely. You see it at our school too, which is a public school, but one with an alternative program which relies on lots of parental involvement. In fact it's parent run. Literally. The parents who don't care generally are not attracted to the school (it's is a magnet school, enrollment is not neighborhood-based), and the kids with parents who don't care who do end up there -well there are enough parents who do care to go around, so they get the benefit too.

Good points, clod and monster!

Homeschooling is great as long as it is not an excuse for religious indoctrination.

That is none of your business.

If by his business you mean that he shouldn't be able to prevent it, I agree. If you mean that he shouldn't say it isn't great, then I'll wholeheartedly disagree. Parents who homeschool to protect their kids from "evilution" or knowledge of contraception are doing their kids a grave disservice.

We agree.

...or an excuse not to get out into the real world & work. I think the vast majority of homeschooling is a great thing, even though my kids got screwed by it.

Especially if you were responsible for their spelling lesson. ;)

We joined a health club - so the kids take classes (gymnastics, swimming, dance, cheerleading, karate, soccer, flag football, cooking, etc so far) with lots of other kids. And they just hang out at the pool, the kids gym, or the video game room sometimes too.
Last school year we were getting together about once a week with another homeschool family to do field trips. There are 2 or 3 other families interested in doing that with us this year.
I joined an email list (yahoo groups) for local homeschoolers, and there are always people looking to get together for this and that - as well as a ton of useful questions and answers.

I am *not* a social butterfly, and kept my kids in private school longer than I really wanted to because I was concerned about socialization. Its not so hard though, and it's real. They play with the kids they really like - and aren't locked in a room with ones they don't, based only on age and lottery.

Whatever works for you though, that's my philosophy. Right now homeschooling is working for us but we do constantly reevaluate and stay aware of our options. (There's a quaker school that I would LOVE to send them to, just can't afford it)

LOL - great one for me - I was burnin the chicken and posted without checking.

I corrected it. :)

I'm the music teacher and occasional phys ed instructor. which is to say that jinx does ALL of the work. I'm busy getting the money.

we used to call that 'being a dick' I still get that some days. only the days that end with a 'y' though.

This is the answer. We're still in a Catholic school here because it's still working for us. No bullying, high expectations, and the friends they've been with for years... just try to do right by your kids.

I think Catholic and Episcopal schools are great. Many cater to other denominations and go out of their way not to indoctrinate.
The local Episcopal school advertises it and is the best school in the district.

Excuse me!
I think some on here are making very wrong comments on an issue involving children.
Could you please rethink your comment?