Reporting non-compliant businesses
 

Anyone know how?
Business was opened by our mayor, he was also very rude to me about it.
It is a restaurant that was converted from a clothing store, so the architect knew, the engineers knew, the workers knew, the city inspector passed it and the fire chief passed it.
Has changed hands since (it is about a year old), so that means another set of inspections that were "passed".
I am sick of this and want to do something about it.
It is not a historical building and all they had to do was knock down the step (11") and make a ramp out of it.
I am thinking about making one of the old "Whites Only" signs and crossing out the Whites and painting Able-Bodied over it and gluing it to their window with gorilla glue.

teehee...I'm not sure how to do it...but I'd be happy to supply you with the glue rk :D

It is a hot dog restaurant.
I rolled-up to the front door. There is no outside eating area, no awning, nothing but an 11" step.
I knocked on the door. The guy behind the counter came over and opened the door just enough for his head to fit through. (It was our mayor, I did not recognize him at the time, but later realized who it was)
All he said was "Yes?" looking aggravated for being there, and I asked, "Hi, can I get into your shop in your rear entrance?" I was polite and just wanted to know.
He said "nope" closed the door and walked back to the counter and continued to serve people... that was it. The entire front of his store is glass.
I was left outside by myself.
I had to move my hand when he shut the door.
Several people in the store just stared at me with an "OMG" look.
It was pretty shocking.

How rude of him. We don't have a ramp in front of our store (historic building), but we've always been happy to help our customers with wheel chairs come in--it doesn't take much effort at all.

I am in an electric, couple of hundred pounds of chair alone.

Money talks. Call a lawyer, sue the fucker, own his hotdog shop.

ADA regs are *not* optional.

ADA page on how to report violations:

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/enforce.htm#anchor218282

We've gotten those in (yeah, takes some effort ;)).

Thank you very much.

Ex-Libertarian like me, huh Rob.




hey what is this, some sort of fuse?

Did you really want a hotdog that badly, or are you just trying to screw with this guy because you can?

If I were you first I would shame the mayor first by going to the press, I'm sure your local paper would publish a story like this, they love public interest hooks.

I am a Constitutional Libertarian, not a pure libertarian and feel that laws to ensure some equality should exist.
Again, I do not think a public business should be allowed to exclude blacks, do you? This is the same thing.
A private club, sure, if that is what they want.

My local JC Penny's merchandise is too close together and I asked a manager to get me a 2x cotton Guayabera for me, it was a few racks in. He was doing nothing.
I was told "We don't have time to do your shopping for you. You need to go somewhere else."
How is that different than "We don't serve your kind here?"

The mayor no longer owns the store, which bothers me more because I know it has been inspected and "passed" again.

So if a business in your town had a sign up that said Whites Only and someone wanted them to change you would assume it was because they wanted a hot dog?
Fucking ignorant.

Well, this is one of the issues that divide libertarians on principle. If you ask Radar whether the ADA should be law, he will tell you it offends him to his bones and that you can't possibly be libertarian and believe in the ADA.

I have serious issues with how the ADA runs itself. I think it needs revamping to the point of being totally redone.
But, by the same token, does he feel that it is ok to have a business for Whites Only?
If so, then it is compliant with his philosophy.

Unless those racks are bolted down, with a full battery you could probably do your own shopping. Let the asshole manager clean up.

That or you could have run his dumbass over - with your chair and blamed it on a mechanical malfunction. I can't believe that these kinds of people still exist. They seem not to be smart enough top procreate.

Yes, Radar would feel it is OK to have a Whites-Only business.

Playing devil's advocate, why would you force someone to associate with people they don't want to associate with?

Good point.

If you don't want to patronize the business, then it doesn't matter whether they have a ramp or not.

I wouldn't give a shit if a gym posted a "males only" sign, or a hip-hop bar a "blacks only" sign. It's up to the business owner to decide how s/he wants to run the business, and who will be served.

I take it you weren't listening when I've said things like The Citadel should never have caved in and admitted females, or that I stopped watching the Mummers the year they went co-ed?

Wow, Wolf supports Jim Crow laws.

I really don't know. And it goes right to the heart of political philosophy:

Since prehistoric times, prosperity is to those groups who come up with the right set of rules and are able to enforce them.

But in recent times, prosperity is to those whose society develops the right mind-set, regardless of the official rules.

Part of that mind-set is protecting those who can't protect themselves, whilst somehow not protecting those who are only playing victim.

I don't know.

You should start a cult.

Wolf is endorsing freedom of association. Jim Crow laws separated people using the force of law. There are a lot of competing values in this issue. You mentioned historic building exemptions. For large operations it is just the cost of doing business but some Mom and Pop outfits can't afford to make the needed up grades. It is an attack on private property rights. I figure its been in place long enough that most of the economic damage has already been done so I guess I'd let this infringement slide... maybe?

I have. You're soaking in it.

I think this is more appropriate.

Griff, I have stated I am in full support of private clubs who wish to include/exclude anyone they wish.
But, if a business cannot exclude by race or sex how is it they can say they do not wish to have me in their store and it be ok with anyone?
This store completely renovated from being a clothing store to a restaurant.
I know how much it costs to knock a step down and pour some concrete into a ramp... I used to do it. It is not that expensive.

For some reason, this makes me think of the Historic Delta Queen thread.

I think what you are missing is that if your business was important enough to them they would go through the trouble of making it accessible to you.

They aren't saying you should starve. They aren't saying you can't have a hot dog. They aren't saying you can't have one of their hot dogs. They are saying that if you want that hot dog that damn bad, then you are going to have to figure it out on your own.

Personally I don't have a problem with that. It is poor business and the owner sounds like a jackass who deserves to see his business fold, but again - his business, his priorities.

The question really is do you feel the need to eat there badly enough that you are going to battle over it, or are you just pissed off in general and want to raise a stink?

That is the most fucked-up way at looking at civil rights I can think of.
"I really don't want to sit at the front of the bus anyway, they don't want me there, so I don't want to be there."
LOL!

Again, if they had a "whites only" sign out front, would all of you be reacting the same way?

Whether he wanted a hot-dog or not is not the issue, unless the owner of the business made a psychic prediction that "the guy in the wheelchair doesn't really want a hot-dog" when he decided not to buy a couple of bags of quikrete at Home Depot. Can we agree to rule out the supernatural?

I wonder if a couple of bags of quikrete from Home Depot would do it? If they decided they wanted to replace that step with a ramp, would they suddenly have to comply with all kinds of federal guidelines?

I know they are in violation of the law, and it's not right, but I wonder if this is just callous disregard, or trying to let sleeping dogs lie?

The "suddenly have to comply" moment probably happened when they remodeled.

Yes it did, but if they found out all the federal crap involved they might have let it slide hoping no one would notice. Of course the mayor would have the local inspector in his pocket.
Remember all the shit in that thread, where tw was talking about wheelchair ramps rules and how hard they are to find, no less comply?

I didn't say it was right. My point is just... well, my point is why does rob care? If it's because he really want to do business there, then fine. If it's just because it pisses him off that the place is non-compliant, then report it and move on with your life. pick your battles.

The more I think back the more I remember this kind of thing happening. My wife sees it more than I do; people getting in front of me in lines, stepping in front of me at a parade and when I say “excuse me” looking at me and then turning back around without moving… all kinds of little and more overt things of this nature. It happens while shopping, restaurants, on sidewalks, everywhere.

Normally I don’t think about it, but I am very depressed today about it. I don’t know why, but I hate the feeling of not being wanted, being looked at as something less than fully human.
I don’t believe it is the whole “it is a subconscious fear of infection/fear of mortality” thing. I believe it is an outright prejudice of those who are different and steps taken to exclude them/us.

Another aspect of this is that those businesses have chosen to make it impossible to hire any disabled associates

The hot dog shop incident happened because my son wanted a hot dog.

It really depends on the location. I think it cost us like $12K to get the ramp done for a hall here. It gets used as a voting station so it had to be done. The Feds have guidelines for access doors and rise/run of the ramp. It isn't a couple bags of quikcrete in many situations. If its done wrong and someone gets injured you lose your business as well.

The local major news AM station had a piece this morning about the ADA as regards diabetics. Taking away the specificity of the piece, what stuck with me rang very true. In most civil rights cases, you have to show that discrimination exists. When it comes down to legal challenges to ADA regs, more often than not, the burden is on the disabled person to show that they are actually *disabled*. In other words, you have to prove that you have a problem before the law applies to you. This is a burden of proof that is not required of blacks or other so-called minorities. That left a pretty foul taste in my mouth.

RK, may I humbly suggest that you (with appropriate family and friend support, and video cameras running), throw yourself out of your chair and onto the space in front of the door, and attempt to crawl inside and order a hotdog?

Rob, I think we all agree with you in principle, but your course of action should be to notify the proper authorities and make sure they follow up - what else can anyone say or do. I f it really bothers you - picket the place or take out an ad in the local paper.

Sounds good, but would put me in the hospital for a while.
Honestly, this is not just about that one place anymore. I am going to report them on Monday. It is about the idea and how commonplace this and the attitude is.

The other day at work we had a huge shipment of trees...and nowhere to put them....solution? mark off a bunch of parking spaces in the parking lot to set them in...

I thought of this thread and cringed as two of our handicapped spots (the last two on that end of the store) were roped off...
Even worse...there was a car in one of the handicapped spots which turned out to be an employee's car...granted he's a little old man who has the handicapped tags and all...but couldn't he at least park one spot next to the handicapped one so that it's free for the customers to use during the day?

We had a lady that worked at our company that had a disabled tag for her Harley and she jogged in the gym at work three days a week on the treadmill.
She would often take the last disabled space with it and run into the office if she was late.
It was so surreal....

Maybe disabled people should have to wear big sandwich boards explaining their ailments (in several languages) whenever they plan to park in a blue spot...

People used to park in our one handicapped space at work all the time as it it didn't have a big square of blue paint with a handicapped sign.

It used to piss me off to the max even though i'm not handicapped.

Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees someone obviously able bodied with no tags on their car, parking in the handicapped zone and says, "where's your cane?". In some cases I've been lucky they didn't actually have a cane handy, but I just think it's rude and very poor form.

You are right, I am being very narrow minded about the jogging disability. I'm sure after her jog she has trouble walking to her hog.

*snicker*
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/prod...?productid=517

So why haven't wheechair manufacturers/designers produced a chair that can do steps yet? Even the Daleks can do steps now.

They have. Dean Kamen, the guy behind the Segway, first came up with this

http://www.ibotnow.com/

But it's like $20,000, I think.

Yeah, that one does everything though. Whole flights of staps and raises the user right up to regular eyelevel. Just adding a single step capability would surely be cheaper and make a huge difference. Some retracting wheels and a short hydraulic lift? Something like that.

I thought Apple owned calling things iSomething.

That guy is a fucking genuis. He also invented the insulin pump (which allows people with Type I diabetes, especially kids, to only have to get a needle once every 2-3 days instead of 4 times a day) and a vastly improved dialysis machine as well.

Ibots are not covered, VERY expensive and are have limited availability.
Shame, they are SUPER-COOL!
They will also stand you up and are amazingly stable.
I have seen a video of a guy shooting a shotgun in the standing mode on two wheels.

Going to do an editorial for my local paper.
Going to write and take some pics of local businesses.
Made these today.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...20signcrop.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...20signedit.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...tes-only-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s-onlyedit.jpg

Thread necromancy moment... holy shit, why did I read this?

The funniest thing about RKZ's hot-dog-restaurant rampage, besides the hypocrisy, was that he seemed unaware that the space would almost certainly have been leased by the restaurant, and the step leading to the door would not have been theirs to modify.

I worked in a coffee shop that was almost impossible for wheelchairs to enter because of a column outside the door, and the building owners would not let us modify it, as the building facade and entry was not part of our lease... only the shop space itself. So picking on the hot dog shop for non-compliance is just retarded.

Just thought I'd save you the time of hitting all his other bitchy threads.

I have been blissfully unaware of his existence until now. :lol:

He's busy polluting YoutTube these days.

Had a similar issue at a cafe I worked at. There was only one wheelchair ramp, and it was waaaaay on the other side of the building. We had regular customers, one wheelchair bound, who would complain to the manager everytime. Again and again the managers had to tell them that they didn't own the building and had no control over that issue, and that they would notify the building management/owners, but that was all they could do. This was almost a weekly conversation, extremely annoying when we're busy as hell and they already know that the issue is not our fault.