Women only
 

I'm on the board of a 501c(3) non-profit swim club. We offer both learn-to-swim and competitive programs from toddlers up to USA national championships and including adults with severe learning difficultes en route.

Recently, we have had an influx of muslim families joining the club -which is awesome -we are in a culturally diverse area, but this "demographic" hasn't been "proportionally represented" until now.

One of the moms has approached us and asked if we could offer an extra, female-only program for the older girls.
We would love to, if we can find pool time and coaches at that time, but where do we stand on the sexual discrimination front with this? Should we/must we also offer a boys only program?

legal/philosophical/every type of non-bigoted input welcome. thanks.

good question. does the facility where you swim have a policy? I.e., if it's a public pool, or university pool, you may have to consult them or follow their policies.

you probably would have to offer both boys and girls only I suspect. Are the parents able to help out in order to free up other people's time? I think it would have to be a give and take situation if the club were to consider it. If someone wants something 'extra' then they have to contribute something extra.

What's the point if they don't have women only competitions they can go to?

We are a learn-to-swim program too. And swimming is fun if you do it well. I'm a convert and I don;t compete.

We are planning to suggest that we would need a parent with the appropriate knowledge as to what was required on the board. Of course that wouldn't necessarily be their only board responsinility.....

Here's a few precedents from Down Under to consider, that I came across in my academic philosophising days.

Sex discrimination is illegal, unless you get a specific permit from the relevant minister. Fernwood Female Fitness Centre are a gym network for women only. They managed to get a permit from the minister to reject all males on grounds of sex/gender not fitting their business model.
While discrimination is generally illegal, you can get around it if you can make a good case. At least in Australia. There is a gay bar in Sydney that has done the same thing and is officially and legally gay only.

In Melbourne there is a group of well organized hippie nudists who have a weekly swim meet at a public pool, on a weekday evening when the pool would usually be closed. They cover the cost of opening it for their exclusive use. Something like this may well be possible for your group.

There is also a new invention called the burqini, a swimsuit designed to meet at least moderate Muslim rules - neck-to-ankle coverage, super modest (and I bet it prevents sunburn and skin cancer too!). This might help some of the less extreme Muslims but I believe that the strictest ones forbid men and women ever to bathe within sight of the opposite sex.

Attachment 16540

Sorry, was I allowed to post in a thread marked "Women only"? I've been having doubts about myself ever since I posted in the handbag thread.

Iron my shirt, bitch.

LJ is totally a girl.

:lol:

[ runs away and cries ... "if you don't know why I'm upset then I'm certainly not going to tell you!"... ]

Well, that wasn't as bad as what you could have said I suppose. Nevertheless, :p to you sir!

Oooh sorry, I missed this last night. It's a high school pool. I think we're pretty much OK to do what we want as long as we pay them and it's legal, but I will check next time I take the payroll in. thanks

We have had similar considerations in our authority regarding girls only and boys only youth nights at local community centres and women only language classes. I would suggest getting further advice from your local authority as to what requirements/legal restrictions there are. On the whole in the UK the attitude seems to be that gender specific events/classes are acceptable where they can be shown to be of benefit. So, if it can be shown that girls/women are likely to be excluded from an activity if the activity is only available in a mixed gender setting then it's usually acceptable to provide a gender specific alternative. The business model argument also seems to apply here as we have female only driving schools, insurance companies and fitness clubs. It's also acceptable (in fact legaly obligated) to separate the sexes in most sports. In any sport where contact is intrinsic such as footballe girls and boys can only play together until the age of (I think) 11.

I still don't know why the class separation is necessary?

what class separation are you referring to, cic?

Cic, I was referring to language classes that are gender separate for muslim women who are uncomfortable (or unable to take part) in a mixed gender class. It was a way of encouraging women with language barriers to take the opportunity to learn English.

I think it might depend on the funding of the swim program. If its federally or state funded, you might have issues. The fact that its held in a high school does not determine this.

I don't think boys require the same segregation as girls. For instance, a Muslim man can be in a room with a woman who is not his relative (and no others). However, a woman cannot be in a room with a man (or men) that is not her relative without another woman there.

There'a a lot of women only gyms around here. No special permits needed.

After much deliberation in my head and discussing this with my husband-I don't think this has an easy answer. Monster is clearly between a rock and a hard place. She is taking part in a sexist agenda if she offers the classes. (Not something I expect from generous non-profits) If she doesn't offer the classes, the girls suffer again.

Do you want to use the resources of your non-profit to enhance lives? Yup. How to best do that in this situation? I don't know... Sorry...I think I put too much thought into it, and didn't come to a firm conclusion....If you have any other requests for ideas that I can't come up with...let me know!!

I'm leaning towards muslim classes (unofficially) for women and girls. You cannot promise that men will not join in on anything or just walk in by accident. Explain thatyou will not be held liable if anyone peeks at a teenage muslim girl or wife.

Check with an attorney, and then check with at least two other attorneys. If all three of them give you the same answer, you might be okay with following their advice ... what's the greater risk ... being sued for gender discrimination or being sued for religious discrimination, or rather, failing to provide religious accomodation?

Edit to add: Since the pool is on the premises of a high school, the answer is probably no because of Title IX.

Actually, here's probably the best solution and it's not even illegal.

Why can't the *muslim community simply hire the whole pool for a certain period of time per week and then hire one of the swim teachers to teach the girls?

That way it's a private affair and they can do what they want if they're paying for it.

this is also good fundraising. Just specify the hire times during periods when the pool is not in such demand.

ETA: *Most cultural/ethnic/religious groups here have their own community organization. I'm assuming it's the same in the US. These groups are usually self funded through members. If the members want their girls to swim, then they'll fork out for it.

This and consulting with the attorney about this are very good ideas. Some good steps here!!

Thanks, all.

No federal/state funding. The school will not rent to private parties. We are a special case because we used to be part of the city's Rec/Ed program before it went under.

It is a rock and a hard place. We realise we are not currently serving this section of the community and would like to. I think you guys have pointed me in the right direction of the person to ask, though -the one who found us a lawyer who worked pro bono to get us our 501c3 status, and who has started several programs to help increase minority access to our and other community programs.

This article may interest some:
African Americans more likely to drown

Until recently, our club had very few African American swimmers, despite having an African American head coach, being in a largely African American populated area, being affordable, and offering partial scholarships. Fortunately, that tide seems to be turning.

Good luck! I think its a worthy endeavour, and I bet you won't be breaking any laws.