Zeitgeist
 

Propaganda...good stuff too. I used to have the job of figuring how much demo, how many man hours, and what hauling assets were needed for a blow. If the building were completely cleared, no drywall etc...so that charges could be placed directly on structural steel, the job they are talking about would take an ass load of people and demo and take a long, long time to set up. Didn't happen.

When the planes hit the buildings, the energy was propagated to the earth by the four huge steel shafts that were the base of the structures. This energy was propagated faster then the speed of sound in the atmosphere, energy travels faster through the solid steel then through the atmosphere. Hence the people in the basement felt the impact first, before they heard the boom. The structure was doing what it was supposed to do.

It's obvious to me that the people who made this movie were smart, too bad they can't put those smarts to better use.

:eek:
Whip? Is that you? Outside of betting tips?!? Holy crap!

Welcome to the rest of the board!

lol, I've been around the board.
Mostly in the early days.

I actually thought I put this thread in politics.
Then I looked to find the thread and figured it had been deleted.
I'm glad it wasn't.

Mr.Regular Joe.
The situation in the USA might be news to Americans, but the fact is that the status was innevitable.
This is not a falling empire.
The empire fell a long time ago.
The economical reality of the world today provides no hope for a better day in the US.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, should you look at the documents they left for all America to read, were accurate.
American's need to take a listen to their forefathers who were clearly aware of the direction the USA was heading in with the powers that were developing at the time of their reign.

People need to look at the facts rather than the headlines being fed out.

What are you talking about? How does it relate to the current topic or thread? What situation in the USA? What Status was inevitable? What facts are you talking about?

Watch the link..... when you start it, make sure it reads 2 hours and a bit.
If its less.... just refresh till its proper, then watch it.

I've seen the movie. Nice phycological operation. Some truth, lots of half truth, a ton of outright bullshit. Overall based on the bullshit level, it gets a bullshit rating from me.

Did you read my first post?

Again, what are you talking about? How does it relate to the current topic or thread? What situation in the USA? What Status was inevitable? What facts are you talking about?

You're entitled to your opinion.

If you had watched the movie, you would know what I'm talking about.
The economical situation.

The economical status

I'm not going to educate you on the current economical reality of the world.
As I said, look at the facts rather than the headlines.
If you had looked at the economical facts 2 years ago, you could have clearly seen todays situation.
Some major facts have certainly not been displayed through the media in N.America, so you've got to look deeper.

Ignorance is not bliss, not in America's case.

Wow, o.k.

Not long ago the U.S. had a small finacial hic up. Here is a FACT. In January of this year, the world found out about the Housing Debacle in the US. Many may loose their homes here. Quite a hit on our market, the markets in Europe and Asia in fear, lost almost 8% in hours. One market in Asia was closed before noon their time to keep it from crashing any more. We have a financiall hic up, and the world catches a cold, damn in Jan they had pneumonia.

This is the current economic reality of the world. It may change in the future, perhaps it should, it is the way of the world.

To quote one financial journalist:"Over the past year, central bankers, newsletter editors and economists have sung the praises of the strength of all those economies we watched crashing last Monday. After all, they have extraordinary trade balances. And yet, all it takes to derail their stock markets is a few thousand U.S. homeowners with patchy credit reports to fall behind on their three-bedroom McMansion." — J. Christoph Amberger

I do agree that Americans, on the whole, are woefully ignorant of the rest of the world, and our role in creating our future, as well as the global interdependence that we share. Our quest to save on the bottom line, and make more money will undoubtedly continue to drive companies to find cheaper labor then on U.S. soil, and build foreign economies. Some day in the far off future China may be outsourcing to the the U.S. because we will have people who will do anything for 20 hours a day for very little pay, and the cycle will continue. Perhaps not.

Perhaps you are trying to tell me that when millions of Americans irresponsibly borrow more money then they can pay back, from institutions greedy enough to lend that money.....bad things will happen. I'm not ignorant of this fact. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

More to the point of this thread, I do not believe that "Zeitgeist" the movie is an educational tool. It is yet another media outlet of misinformation based on a little fact and a lot of fiction trying to sway the opinion of the watcher. It seems to have worked.

This is now moving away from the topic, but thats fine I suppose.

You need to take a closer look at how the USA rose to power.
What source of income the USA has had over its short life.
Bottom line, whats left?
What you have is the shortest lived empire in our known history.

A shift of power occured a few years back.
A seperation was made by your own president.
From the seperation, powers emerged and set fourth rules that even your own goverment is now obeying.
A link has been formed from Europe to Russia, and Russia to China.
A chain America plays no part in.
You think housing has aything to do with the problem that the USA faces?
Your trio power has now collapsed.
The days of selling weapons and creating wars are now over.
Desperate times for the exhaulted one.
The main problem here is that your Landlord cares not for his tennants.
Gentiles in the hands of the enemy.
Let me guess ...you're patriotic, right?

http://www.fiatempire.com/

We were doomed from the start....

You say that as if there is something wrong with being a patriot or having patriotism. Doesn't matter really. It seems to me that we are either talking about different things, or we don't understand each other.
I really don't want to argue. You are eluding to much, and don't come right out and say what you want. Or maybe I'm not one of the "initiated", in that case I'll just remain ignorant. Have a good one pal.

If a few year ago, the General, of one of the greatest armies in the world(a nation of nuclear power) had threatened the USA, with annihilation of its major cities, without any reaction beyond compliance from the US goverment, would the citizens of the USA ever find out about it?

You see, in the states, you hear what they want you to hear...and thats it. The ones who truly run things, see you and your children, worthy of death.

A Patriot of what? Your bloodline comes from another continent, unless of course you are native.

Patriotism, coming from any country in the world, generates blindness and hatred.
It brings fourth this species crued nature.
A nature of murder, theft and rape.
Rape of the earth, and all living things on it).
Somewhere along the line, we lost the fact that we are not owners of this planet.
We are simply its worst inhabitants.

Whats even worse than being a patriot, is being proud of being human.

Silly...I just noticed that you can spell the word comical out of the letters in economical.

Carry on..*sorry*
:)

I really don't see anything wrong with either of those contrasted views....funny.

Funny. I remember the last time you trotted out a bizarre conspiracy theory Whip. Re the two Sheffield football teams never being allowed to play in the same league, and that all results were fixed to prevent this.

I thought you were a nut-job then and I think you're a nut-job now.

Anyone that believes that the Twin Towers fell for any reason other than terrorists flying planes into them has very little logic, deductive reasoning, comprehension skills or basic human wit. You have my pity.

I don't understand why the first half-hour of the movie was about Christianity's roots in pagan and Egyptian tradition. Admittedly, I skipped ahead during several boring parts, but there seemed to be no segue at all into the 9/11 conspiracy...?

Admittedly I went skippety-skip too.
But I pitched up ina part with images of the towers falling and voiceovers claiming that they were brought down from the inside, that it was clearly a demolition etc etc. As it fit with what Joe said in his post I suddenly became too weary to continue. I might never get that 2 hours back you see.

We know for a fact that the US government lies to the American people. Lets take a look at Norm Chosmky:
http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/d...a+is+made.html

Here is something interesting:
http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/d...+as+Debt.html#

Does the burning of the Righ Stag sound familiar?
http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/d...8HiRes%29.html
http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/d...+Tyranny.html#

The US government lies to the American people but the 9/11 conspiracy is pure bullshit.

In order for the conspiracy to happen:

• Thousands of people would have to be boughten off.
• Al-Qaeda would have to work with the United States to give the United States more power. (It would be similar to violent anarchists working with the SWAT team to get them more power)
• The "elite" would have to risk revolution for a small gain in power. They already have economic power, getting any more would be very risky for them.

Well I guess you have pity for me, but I don't want it....Besides there are more legitmate reasons to pity me.

Sundae "Pity's the foo'"....lol!

My friend of years, that is pretty conservative sent me the link to this movie first. She's pretty level-headed most of the time, and I admit I still haven't watched it.....She doesn't need your pity either. You can take that to the bank and get a pound, or two. You can keep all your pity to your self. Your universal opinion about anyone who believes this or that sucks. Troll lately?
:p

I do believe the planes flew into the WTC by terrorists....I also believe a lot of other hectic shit happened, that isn't as complex or time costly as other people would have me believe, also happened. So, the general statement you just made, does suck.....It just sucks that you would box people into such negative categories because their belief opposes yours. You must have been in a mood or something, I'll write this off.
:D

snip
Firstly, WHIP has already believed a completely irrational conspiracy theory which was disproved this year. Therefore establishing a track record in my opinion.
Secondly, if you believe that terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center I have no idea what the issue is.

I admit I may have taken the part of the film I saw out of context, being too slack to watch more than a few minutes. That I apologise for. But I stand by my opinion that it goes against logic, reasoning and basic comprehension to look at the evidence out there and deduce that elements in the American Govt blew up the Twin Towers.
Still, if I made you laugh then I guess it's worth it.

what I want to know is if Whip is from French Canada or the Bullshit Canada?

makes a world of difference you know.

Basic comprehension is for the basic my friend....There are tons of other comprehensive skills....We all forget that. I think it is easily described as motive. It's just too simple to overlook. The laws put in place were writ here before the act happened, not out of readiness mind you, and it's just too easy to follow the series of events, and the natural outcome.

It isn't a complex plot by any means. Not for iraqi's or Americans, that is a side arguement for the dull and dim-witted.

As for conspiracy's? I've seen more involved conspiracies come out of a group of ridiculous receptionists trying to get the new girl fired in 2 seconds flat. People can't pretend to tell me what people are capable of in a limited amount of time and means......Don't tell me conspracies don't happen easily and affordably quite quickly, as I see it every day for lesser reasons.

Conspiracy theorists always strike me as frustrated romantics. They're looking for the explanation that's ... the most fun. This allows them to suck some meaning into their mosquito lives.

Conspiracy theory has the signal defect of ascribing to malice what can be more simply explained by stupidity. Momentary, temporary, or permanent.

Finally took the time out to watch it.

I won't comment on Part 1 as I am an atheist, so it was preaching to the converted. Apart from that I am well aware of the Jesus-as-pagan-myth connection and the similarities between different saviour figures in different religions. I was baffled by the reliance on astrological details with no debunking of the system but you can't have everything. I suppose a straightforward denial of God or some spiritual force wouldn't be as palatable as conspiracy theory.

Parts 2 and 3?
Yup. I am prepared to believe both of them.
How awful for you Americans. Living under a Government that murders its own citizens in order to control them completely. And under a banking system designed to put you all in eternal debt and leave you homeless. And under an illegal tax system which only serves to pay those shady behind the scenes bankers.

No freedom, under corrupt Government, who have illegally entered you into at least 4 wars now (I, II, Vietnam and the War on Terror). Korea was not mentioned, but I'm sure it was all down to banking cartels too. Shocking that none of you clicked. George Orwell knew all about it in 1948.

Yes - you are living under the modern equivilant of Nazi Germany. I hope for your sake the rest of the world doesn't realise and try to invade you to set you free.

Oh and I accept completely that you're about to merge with Canada and Mexico. It's one way to solve the illegal immigration problem. And then all four superstates will merge to form one world Government. Those Rockefellers et al must be desperate to take control of Africa, success story that it is.

Oh and by May 2008 you'll be required to carry a Real ID (federal identification) card which carries on it scannable identification. Oops, did I get that date wrong? Nope, just checked it again. May 2008. How come you never mentioned it? They're already implanting microchips in American citizens. And they can turn off the chips if you protest. Because that will really bother the disenfranchised underclass.

Move to Australia, quick! I am ashamed at you for living in such a country.

Do you happen to go by any other handle? Like MaggieL? If you say "strawman" I'll know for certain.

lol! Why do you ask? Are you asking because Maggie L is awesome? I don't have a good feeling about this.
lol!
How many alter-egos am I today Bri? I'm not just like Cloud anymore or what?


Whatever. Believe conspiracies do not exist if you want. I haven't even seen this fucking film. Whatever.

Cicero, if you look back at this thread you might notice you came out swinging pretty hard after SG made a comment that absolutely nothing to do with you. I haven't been following any threads for a few days so maybe your nose was tweaked elsewhere, but here??? Just a thought from a bystander.

This just proves we never know who we are going to offend when we make a blanket statement about, "all people that do this or that.....are dumbass pitiful what-nots".

I was surprised at Sundae's comments. That's all. I possibly was too harsh, but still don't have a good answer for why Sundae would paint people with the same brush, as when this type of attitude happens to her, I am sure she does not like it either. No one does.

It's no surprise that I can be just as moody as everyone else. I have a particular knee-jerk reaction when people go with the "all people this or that" statements. It bothers me. It's dogmatic for all the wrong reasons, and I thought it was rather harsh for Sundae to go off on someone when they finally wanted to start a discussion topic in a civilized manner, and join the rest of the board. I think whip was being abnormally civil and was called a nut-job immediately.

I just don't think that was fair. Maybe he is a nut job. But as it pertains to this thread, I think he was being democratic for once and people chose to knock the piss out of him. And when he chose to discuss his views and did not rail back, he was called more names. Screw that. Now that pisses me off again. Now that I do have time to read back through the thread.

Maybe I was busy with my own motive and agenda: to be kind to someone I rarely see outside of one thread, and tried to be welcoming, as I noticed that person making an effort (whip) which I thought was a positive change in this persons character,only to usurped by all the reasons that person shouldn't be a part of the rest of this board.

Harsh? I think Sundae was super harsh, and maybe there is a background with whip she has, and maybe not. In either case, I don't think that was fair at all, and I was definitely irritated by that and am mildly so now.

Was I supposed to call him a crazy fucktard too? Sorry, I didn't get the memo.

Let's just go with a different thread title next time. Something more appropriate like "your chance to beat the whip".

To be fair: I apologize if I was too bitchy Sundae. I likes the Sundae...:) But you are also going to have to be responsible for your own actions. Just not sure why you would attack someone immediately that was trying to have a discussion in a civilized manner.

So that is all, and no I wasn't paying attention to this thread for awhile. Carry on! Attack whip all you want. I am over it.

I watched part of the film before I commented.
I then felt I had been unreasonable in only watching ten minutes and spent over two hours I will never get back in order to form a more accurate opinion.

Whip was recommending (and defending by the time I saw the thread) a film I find to be ridiculous in content - laughably so. And no I wouldn't say I have "background" with him. I just don't trust his opinions in or out of his "own" thread because of what he has written.

If someone can't stand to have their opinions (especially their nutjob ones) questioned then I fail to see why I should baby them.

Well I guess you put him in his place then. Well done.

Brav-the fuck-o! Fabulous.

The topic starter is probably gone permanently so I'm done with this thread.

I have explained that my problem was with the film.
I have watched the film, and detailed exactly why I think it is ridiculous.
I have further explained that I do not have a problem with WHIP personally, but that anyone who espouses such opinions (especially against a foreign country) is fair game in my eyes.

WHIP has never been chased off a thread in this forum in his life. There were people offering to meet him and beat him up in other threads - a difference of opinion from a women half a world away does not threaten him. And you know what, if someone else comes on here saying the same things that were stated as fact in the film, I will have the same reaction. Maybe I'm wrong, but in which case it's up to other Dwellars to offer them the red carpet - if I am a lone voice in the wilderness denying the 9/11 conspiracy then I will work it out eventually and leave because this isn't the place I thought it was.

You've done nothing but make personal comments about me and my opinions. Brav-the-fuck-o.
Watch the fucking film and make a fucking informed comment on it or shut the fuck up you rude fuck.
There. Talking your fucking language now?

What I found most interesting about this film, is its presentation of the economical situation in the USA.

WHIP I'm pretty sure almost all the Americans here would disagree with most of the conclusions reached, even if they accepted the historical facts (many of which I believe are skewed to reach said conclusions). Surely you don't believe that in the next 10-30 years the US will form a single ecomonic entity with Canada and Mexico to the extent of having a single currency? I mean how could it possibly be in both nation's interests to take Mexico on board?

And I'd venture to say most Canadians wouldn't want to be associated with us, either. (Hell, Quebec doesn't even want to be associated with the rest of Canada.)

No, of course not Sundae Girl.

I fear that in 10-30 years from now, based on the economical reality in the USA, combined with the USA's relationship's with the powers that rule the world today, looks very Grim.
Canada will not attach itself to a sinking ship.

This whole Quebecois topic, again is based on the USA.
Quebec wanted no part in Canada's aliance with the USA.
In the end the Quebecois won out, as there will be no colaboration apart from renting out parts of Alberta.

The Liberals and the Bloc still have the majority of seats, and that will simply increase in the next elections.
The French run this country.

I've still seen no feed-back in this thread regarding the economical situation in the USA.
A situation forseen by G.Washington and T.Jefferson.

It's called the North American Union, and you guys already have the European Union that installed the Euro dollar. It isn't hard to believe. And no, I haven't seen it yet.
(Zeitgeist)

So far the North American Union is just a theory fashioned after the European Union, but the CFA seems to be backing it, along with Bush, and some wild professor.
The reason to install it would be to create these ease of access highways to import and export our great commodities, and cheaper work force, legally. Along with the national id that would contain rfid tags. Chip implants and such is not a conspiracy as they are already installed over here.....

I know there are lots of ideas, and am not sure how much of these ideas are conspiracy or just theories, but I do know the ideas of "conspiracy theorists" have already occured in some cases, and in some cases not.

Here is the published CFA document.
http://www.cfr.org/content/publicati...a_TF_final.pdf

The NAU is just a theory thus far, but there are some pretty heavy advocates, which is worrisome. All theories are not conspiracies. And vice versa.
:)
Oh and sundae fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. And fuck. You stfu, you were damned rude. You can dish it out but can't take it...The next time I see someone "baby" you, I am going to laugh my ass off. Which is probably going to be, in 5-4-3-2-.......

Just admit you were being rude. Admit iiiit!!!! lol!