McCain should have picked a different plumber
 

Joe the plumber -- not a plumber. At least he has no plumbing license for the area in which he works. So it's going to be a while before he can think about owning his own plumbing business.

And the whole "who's tax plan is going to be best for Joe?" Doesn't really matter 'cause he hasn't been paying his taxes anyway.

Heh...

Facts have no place in politics, buster!

Don't miss the point. Small business is going to take it in the shorts under an Obama economic plan.

And he's not registered to vote. And his name isn't Joe.

McCain didn't pick him and the guy just asked a question. Was it really necessary to hire private investigators to look into this guys entire life? Just because he asked Obama a question? Wow, just wow! I thought only right wing wacko's did that stuff. Looks like the Dems have come full circle.

I think the 'point' would have more impact if it was actually given by a small business owner.

And anyway, given the scenario this guy gave, I've read that his tax liability would only increase by $800 to $900. Thats enough to keep him from opening his own business?

Merc what information do you have that small businesses are going to take a hit with Obamas plan? I have to admit that I don't know enough of the details.

Classic, lay the blame on the GOP. First Fox films the transaction, and then McCain uses it in the debate to slam Obama. I don't think there accidental about the whole thing.

Blame them for what? OMG please stop with the conspiracy theories. It's really unbecoming of you.

If you want details of Obama's tax plan or anything else just go to his site and look them up. All the details are there - all you gotta do is read 'em. I would have thought you already did that.

The GOP CAMPAIGN for using this guy in the debate.

Sheesh.

And yes, I think he was a plant. Its not like it hasn't happened before.

He has stated, categorically, that he would rais taxes on any person or business that had more than 250k income. That is a whole bunch of small businesses.

Oops, you added more...

I want to know why Merc thinks so. He's the one saying it, he should back it up. I didnt ask you....stepping on peoples posts like that is unbecoming, ya know.

Isnt the increase only 3%?

Why all the angst against the blue collar workers of America? Dude wakes up every day. Goes to work at a plumbing business. Does plumbing work all day. Goes home to his family. The dude is a plumber.

Real estate agents aren't brokers. Bricklayers didn't all have to take a formal course or be licensed in their state to be brick layers. Sheeesh....

I guess we will see when he gets in office. If you make 250K you aleady pay 35% in taxes. Now that would make it 38%. State tax here is 7%. So basically you think these people should pay 45% of every dollar earned?!?!??! WTF? where is the incentive to work? Isn't 42% enough already?

ok - thats fine. Now I understand where you are coming from.

All I can say is the title of this thread is 100% correct.

All's fair in love and politics. McCain should have had him fully vetted prior to using his name a dozen times in the debate.

2%-3% of small businesses make over $250k per year in profits. At that point, they aren't so small and they can afford it a bit more than those who are making $50k per year. I guess Obama is only better for the 97-98% who make less than that.

Small businesses who make over $250,000 only comprise about, I think it was, 2 or 3 % of small businesses.

Remember the movie Wag the Dog? This is McCain's Good Old Shoe.

Gullible closed-minded people abound when it comes to falling for this mindless propaganda. I'd laugh if I didn't feel so damn sorry for them. ;)

There was no accident. Fox made sure they were there, and the Republicans put that guy there to ambush Obama on camera. I'm just happy Obama handled it with class, honesty, and integrity rather than telling the guy to fuck off as he deserved to be told.

Obamas plan is for a marginal tax increase of 3% over $250,000.

That is only $900 more for an income of $280,000.

Shut up with your facts. I SPEET on your facts! :lol:

I don't think they even did that with Sarah Palin.

If he runs the country the way he runs his campaign... :eek:

No, he definitely didn't.

Get used to it. Politicians have to fight dirty in this country.

Oh, hell, everyone has an extra $900 they can just pull out of the budget for the business. Might be smart to go ahead and fire at least one employee. Obama will take care of them.

Also, small businesses are able to claim quite a few tax write-offs, so a minimal tax increase would affect them even less.

Come on Merc.

Its the profits that are taxed, isnt it? The money that is left after employees are paid.

Being out $900 is not going to force any somewhat viable small business to fire anyone. Especially a small business that's making enough profit to be taxed an extra $900.

Yeh - The picked a guy who isn't licensed, who owes back taxes "though officials admitted he might not know about the arrears." and only makes $40,000. Go get your foil hat and put a strap on it. It seems to have fallen off and allowed some harmful sun to bake whats left of your brain.

Yes, I'm the one with the tinfoil hat; not you right?

You've got your head buried so far up your ass, you can see what you ate for breakfast.

You're just pissy because John McCain is double-digits behind Obama with only 18 days to go. It's a lost cause for the Republicans and frankly, I think the Republicans WANT to lose this election. That's why they chose someone they knew was unstable and old, with a ditzy bimbo of a running mate. They know the person who follows Bush will have to do some unpopular things to clean up Bush's mess. Then they can blame the unpopular stuff and the mess on the new guy.

Also, the Republicans didn't necessarily pick that guy. They probably got a bunch of local Republicans and told them to get as close as they can to Obama and ask him a slanted question about how he would hurt the poor small business owners.

He was just big enough to push his way through the crowd and had a big enough mouth to get noticed.

At what point did I say I was voting for McCain? When did my registration suddenly change from Independent to Republican? When did I become "pissy"? Why am I even bothering to respond to you? What's the matter, are you scared? ... Then get a dog.
Anyway.... reality doesn't change no matter how you want to twist it to fit your amateurish, brainwashed little fear driven theories.

Here's the way I see it - Some guy said something that the Obama
camp didn't like. McCain, behind in the polls, by more like 6 points, used it to his advantage during the debate a couple days later. Good for him! The Obama camp immediately started to investigate and discredit him. Good for them. Well run campaigns. Unfortunately thats the way things are done in politics today, but as far as thats concerned both campaigns did what the situation dictated they do.

Well lets see compared to Bush, ANYONE will look good, except you maybe but thats another argument. The "unpopular stuff" will all be blamed on Bush and the following president will be seen as a savior. He has already earned a virtual "mulligan".

I think the republicans knew this would be an extremely difficult, if not impossible election to win. I think McCain can be compared to Bob Dole of a few years ago. Same situation - extremely difficult elections to win - So they tossed a good soldier a bone.

The fact that the popular vote is as close as it is must be shocking to the entire party, IMO. Who could have expected that it would actually be this close at this point after all Bush has put the country through?

You edited what I wrote. Very childish, even for you.

If you consider a double digit lead for a black man over a white man to be close, I think you're crazy. If Obama were white, he'd be 30 points ahead of McCain. There isn't a realistic statistical chance of McCain actually winning the election. You'd do better to put your life savings on a single number in roulette and spin the wheel. This way you would have more of a chance of winning than McCain.

Oh, and compared to anyone in the Republican Party and even compared to Obama, I'd look fantasic. I'd be the very best president America has ever seen. I'd have America more secure, free, and prosperous than it has ever been before. We'd have more jobs, and be loved throughout the world...assuming I could get a libertarian congress.

it's great that you are so confident in your abilities to run the largest most complicated country in the world with absolutely no experience.
All I can say is that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well good point. I mean the economy is doing so well and everyone is so financially stable. I mean who is worrying. Just look around you at all the businesses that are raking in the profits, big or small, no worries out there at all. All we need to do is wait for the Second Coming when Obama is elected and he can fix all the ills of the world. I have bridge to sell you in Alaska.

Yea, I mean heaven to Betsy that some hard working blue collar dude should question his new Master's intention. He should have gotten on his knees and just bowed down. :rolleyes:

Eh? This has to do with what I said how?

I guess you just want to rant. Okay, whatever.

Tail-posting, but....

Should have picked a different plumber?

How about should have picked a different Vice #$%&ing President????

Sam the Plumber has now had more press conferences and interviews than sarah palin.
so, so depressing.

How often did he say maverick?

Screw that, how many times did he say "My Friends"? Less than the last time. Holy crap, I wanted to bitch slap him. I am not your GD friend already.

Not the one "Joe" was works for.
"Didn't like"? What he said wasn't true! Not only would he pay less taxes under Obama's plan (assuming he paid them in the first place), so would the business he was claimed to be "getting ready to buy".

I don't think either campaign rushed to dig up dirt on Joe the Plumber.
Once he appeared on camera, hundreds of reporters and bloggers would be scrambling to get the scoop on this guy, just like they do with any unknown that suddenly becomes known. They all want something to create a fresh story because the campaign is getting old to many viewers/readers. :2cents:

That's a rather unfortunate image to conjure, Merc. Soometimes I worry about you.

Tax credit for American employees hired...

Good idea in principle. If someone includes it. The problem is that often the tax credits are given to the companies who lobby the Congress and individual representatives will seek perks for the largest companies, not smalll business. Not to mention that all of this would have to be included in the orignal bill voted on and vetted through Congress. The point is that many people either do not work for a small business, nor have they ever owned one. So it is difficult to imagine the struggles that go along with keeping one afloat. A $900 hit on a company is huge. Most small companies are not super profitable now days, in fact most are just above water, dog paddling.

Sorry you feel this way.

What's more depressing is that he seems more willing to discuss economic policy than she is. He might get it wrong, but at least he's thinking about it and seems articulate and engaged on the issues.

Which would mean they're not clearing a $250,000+ profit, wouldn't it?

Are they taxed on the profit or the gross?

The way Obama explained the other night: they'd get taxed at the extra percentage on everything above the 250k mark. So they'd be taxed as normal up to 250k and would pay an extra 3 or 4 percent on everything above that. My guess is that's worked out on income rather than profit.

I was under the impression companies are income taxed on profit. :confused:

We ran a small business until Fall of last year. It made no net profit whatsoever in the three years we had it open, so I am pretty familiar with small business struggles.

Even if we had made half of $250,000 profit in one year, paying $900 extra in taxes would still not have been much of a hit.

*shrugs* you're probably right. I have no idea how this shit works :P