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Originally Posted by Undertoad
(Post 525665)
More grist for the mill: freed from Guantanamo in 2007, now deputy leader of Al Qaeda's Yemeni branch.
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Because of what America did, it is only reasonable for hundreds of innocent prisoners from Gitmo to now become terrorists. Can anyone blame them? Of course not.
How was Jemaah Islamiya (ie Bali bombings) completely defeated? No torture. No Guantanamo. Instead they used tactics that even professional American interrogators used to actually get information (which completely contradicts wacko extremist politics): From the BBC on 13 September 2006:
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In the fight against the international terrorist threat in Indonesia, one man has become an invaluable ally. Nasir Abbas explains why, after men he trained carried out the Bali bombing in 2002, he decided to change sides.
For many years Nasir Abbas was one of the most wanted jihadis in South East Asia.
He was a member of al-Qaeda's regional affiliate, Jemaah Islamiya (JI).
The Malaysian trained the Bali bombers in Afghanistan, established a jihadi training camp - Camp Hudabiya - in the dense jungles of Mindanao in the southern Philippines, and rose to become the head of JI's military training division, known as Mantiki Three.
He was close to some of the most notorious militants in the region and brother-in-law of Mukhlas, the mastermind of the 2002 Bali bombings.
Those he trained and those he knew went on to operate not just in South East Asia, but in other parts of the world. ...
Innocent lives
According to Mr Abbas' philosophy of jihad, it is acceptable to fight and kill foreign forces occupying Muslim countries like the Soviets in Afghanistan, the Americans in Iraq or the Philippine army occupying ancestral Muslim lands in Mindanao, but killing innocent civilians - men, women and children - is forbidden.
This is the philosophy of modern violent jihad outlined by Palestinian Abdullah Azzam, acknowledged to be the "father" of modern violent jihad.
With this distinction in mind, the 2002 Bali bombings in which 202 civilians died, made Mr Abbas think again about the organisation to which he had belonged for almost a decade.
When he discovered that his former students, whom he had trained in Afghanistan in the early 1990s, were responsible, he was deeply shocked.
"I feel sorry, I feel sin," he said, "because they used the knowledge to kill civilians, to kill innocent people."
It was only when he was arrested six months later in April 2003, that Mr Abbas finally decided to put his past behind him.
Switching allegiance
As he was taken off for interrogation, he feared the worst.
"I believed that the police were very cruel and used torture to get their answers," he said.
But Mr Abbas was in for a surprise. He was treated with civility and Muslim respect.
He was also surprised that so much was known about him and was puzzled as to how his interrogators knew.
He was arrested one evening and kept silent until the following morning.
Then he decided to talk and help the police, because he thought it was God's will.
He said he felt "responsible, in front of God, to stop all these bad deeds."
From that point on, Mr Abbas tried to persuade his former comrades that their interpretation of the Koran was wrong.
He urges them to "return to the right path of Islamic teaching."
But he did much more than that.
He actively assisted the police in tracking down and arresting some of his former comrades and felt no guilt in doing so.
On trial
His ultimate test of allegiance came almost two years after his arrest when he gave evidence in court against the alleged spiritual leader of JI, Abu Bakar Ba'asyir.
Mr Ba'asyir was charged with conspiracy in connection with the 2002 Bali bombing.
There was a near riot in court when Mr Abbas gave evidence that Ba'asyir had personally made him the leader of Mantiki Three and had attended a passing out parade of Mr Abbas' graduates at Camp Hudabiya.
Ba'asyir was given a two-and-half year prison sentence.
High risk
Mr Abbas continues his work today.
Last week another JI member against whom he gave evidence, Mohamed Cholily, was sentenced to 18 years for involvement in the 2005 Bali bombing.
And earlier this year he provided police with information that helped them track down Azahari Bin Husin, JI's master bomb maker, who made the 2002 Bali bombs.
The jihadi who turned has every intention of carrying on.
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... because he was not tortured.
Gitmo is why we had so many fictonal orange alerts such as the Golden Gate Bridge and Newark's Prudential Building. Torture justified by extremists politics only results in no useful intelligence - and Cheney's denials. Gitmo only made America less safe. Obvious once we learn what professional interrogators have always said. Obvious once we ignore wisdom based in extremists politics and extremist propaganda (such as the TV show "24").
Gitmo only created hundreds of potential new terrorists out of people who were once never a threat.
BTW, to break Jemaah Islamiya, Indonesian investigators denied access by Americans who love torture. Indonesians did not need America's extremist politics making a mess of their investigation. A stunningly successful investigation because they kept extremists away and used investigation techniques that even the American FBI had used successfully (ie 1993 WTC bombing, USS Coled, etc). But even the FBI got no more information once the administration started using torture, Gitmo, secret torture prision, Abu Ghraid, et al techniques. |
