Will Soldiers Have to Use Private Ins?
 

Maybe someone else has posted this, but it was news to us here at the hospital. Ya'll, this is just wrong.

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration is considering making veterans use private insurance to pay for treatment of combat and service-related injuries.

The plan would be an about-face on what veterans believe is a longstanding pledge to pay for health care costs that result from their military service.

But in a White House meeting Monday, veterans groups apparently failed to persuade President Barack Obama to take the plan off the table.

Link perhaps?

I saw a long story about it somewhere yesterday and then an interview on, I believe CNN. Obama met with 11 guys from a bunch of different Veterans groups. There was some privatized 3rd party plan he ad that would save 500 million .... It looks like Obama is gonna drop this idea pretty quick. He got slammed by all 11 groups and apparently the D's he floated it to as well.
We'll see.

Yeah. That's just wrong. Whether or not you agree with whatever war we're in at the time, the men and women who give their all should have war injuries etc. taken care of. It's part of the cost of making war.

I could see it as part of a plan to have everyone in the country covered by medical insurance, with the advantage that vets would have a choice to go somewhere besides the VA hospital. Other than that, no.

I don't know any of the details of this, so am just commenting with no facts, but if he was floating a plan to privatize the medical care, but still pay for it with taxpayer money, then I don't see any problem with that. If you can keep or improve the care, and save money, it's all good.

The American Legion is pissed.

EVERY veterans organization is pissed.

All the same organizations that were previoulsy bitching about the current system are now bitching that it's being changed. Right?

right!

Looking at Jinx's link, it looks like it would actually be the worst of both worlds: the soldiers would still get treated at the VA, but then their insurance would be required to reimburse the VA for any services. On the one hand, I guess I can understand the idea that these people have private insurance anyway, so why not save some taxpayer money... but it certainly shouldn't operate under the same rules for deductibles, maximum benefit limits, etc.

LEAD BALLOON ALERT

This will not fly.


Only until he is promoted. After that, I guess they will have to use Private Parts.

Yes, or I could see it as soldiers needing care, and being refused because of some reason the insurer pulls out of their ass.

Vets, and everyone, should be allowed to go to whatever doctor they want, and get the care they need. We reeeeally need to get rid of insurance companies and have a single-payer system like most other countries. Insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies just make costs higher and they really don't provide the coverage a lot of people think they do. Let doctors get back to caring for people, like they want to and like they should. There are too many rules with insurance companies. They are too corrupt and only care about making money. Frankly, I was disturbed when I heard Obama was meeting with all those indusrty people to help reform health care. Why let the foxes gaurd the henhouse?

In addition, I think we need to something about frivolous lawsuits without hindering the need to hold people accountable when they really do harm. I think they should put cameras in all operating rooms, for the purpose of determining if there is fault when people try to sue surgeons. Sometimes shit just happens and people die. Sometimes, a doctor makes a serious mistake. If there were cameras, the hospital could make a generous offer to the patient and maybe deter a lawsuit, and bad doctors could be stopped from practicing medicine and fucking it up for good doctors.

I remember Mike Yon saying the Brits in Iraq hoped for a head wound, if they were wounded. I seems wounded Brits were evacuated home and put into the national health system, but if it was a head wound they were sent to the American hospital in Germany.

I think its great that he TALKED to them. Who the heck else is he supposed to talk to about it? He is relatively inexperienced - remember. I applaud that he is trying to learn first and then act.

Who would you like him to speak with, sugarpop?

I imagine she would like him to speak with her.

Too bad - it's just not in the stars. :rolleyes:

Bad mood. Looks like to me some of posters don't have any dog in the hunt. Other than the lowly job of tax payer.
Today I got a letter from VA telling me that they no longer perform elective GI procedures due to a shortage of GI physicians. Hey I didn't ask for this test, my Dr. did. I'm not real interested in them using the light that came from someones butt.( other news post). But they're going to farm this test out to Humana. So is this a test of health care at VA? Maybe my test will be in Wheeling, WVA.

While I'm on this horse. The VA hospitals are teaching hospitals. When the intern class graduates it leaves a hole, which isn't filled till next class. See what I call a real Dr.? Good luck. Can you say Guinea pig?

Buster - while I am not personally involved, I am VERY interested in whats going on with this. I was just doing some research and it appears that the meeting yesterday was successful for the Vet organizations. The plan has reportedly been shelved.
The only link I can find is here

Class. Only trouble for me I see, down the road, is WW11 vets are dieing around 1k a day. So someone is going to call for a budget cut.
I'm wondering why, Humana? I see campaign donations.

The government saves money. All private insurance has caps and deductables. That would be the rub.

You're right. I just don't want them to change HIS image of what he wants to do, and get their agenda enacted instead of what's best for the country and the people. I don't want it to end up like Cheney meeting with ernergy people to write energy law. ya know what I mean? Of course, Obama ain't Cheney... :D

And most VET organizations didn't want it either. Right?

Don't be hatin'

He is no Dick and thats certainly a good thing. What happens after he talks to them... Thats why you voted for him, you gotta trust that he'll do whats best.

I know. And I do. I just also know what happens to most politicians once they're in office. He will have to compromise to get it passed. I just hope he doesn't compromise the wrong parts.

It's dead.:yeldead:

as it should be.

They came up with an idea, threw it out there, listened to the people who would be affected as to the reasons why they felt it was unfair, and decided it was a bad idea. Isn't that the way it should work?

Seems reasonable to me.

Plus, it has the amusing benefit of getting Republicans to cry out in support of socialized medicine.

Nice try. They are treated as separate groups. There is no way you can equate the contract soldiers make to the US government to the masses of non-soldiers requiring health care.

Absolutely Yes- This was a huge plus for Obama. He did EXACTLY as he should have. I hope it doesn't get buried with all the other crap thats out there right now.

I didn't. I just thought it was amusing that the Republicans thought that a move making a socialized medical plan more like the plan the rest of us have would be a bad thing for the veterans.

I mean, it obviously would be, but it's fun to see the Republicans admit it.

You can't compare apples and oranges. Soldiers do something for their health insurance. The rest do not.

They do something to get it, and their reward is socialized medicine. Government-run medicine is a reward. Having to use private insurance and pay deductibles would be a diminishment of their reward.

It's fun to see Republicans touting government-run healthcare as a reward.

It is not a reward. It is a contractual relationship. It is funny to watch people try to compare groups who do nothing and expect the goverment to give them free handouts to people who have a contract to give their life away for periods of years and say they are somehow the same.

:D

Hmmm, I view the VA in the same way I see my dad's insurance plan. He retired from a company where he had a contract (UAW negotiated). Part of that contract was insurance for life paid for by the company he entered the contract with.

Military members have an enlistment contract that provides for medical care for life (with limitations) provided by the employers they entered into the contract with.

I don't see the socialized medicine angle.

Is it? Is the VA actually in the contract, or is it legislatively mandated that veterans get in the VA? I don't know, but either way the distinction isn't particularly relevant. I wasn't using "reward" in a sense that is incompatible with a contractual relationship; I was using it in the sense of being a good thing provided in return for another good thing, which certainly can apply to a contract.

What I am drawing attention to is that this has forced the Republicans to tout socialized medicine as a good thing. Instead of saying how bad socialized medicine is, they have to say that the rest of us don't deserve it.

Another thing the Republicans love to attack - paying for retired workers? We have to renegotiate those contracts to save the car companies!Not only is it paid for by the government, it is also administrated by the government, and not run through private insurers. I don't know the specifics of your dad's UAW deal, but I would guess they paid premiums on your dad's behalf to a private insurer.

but but The thing what you said was wrong, BECAUSE!

I'm not sure on your angle there. He worked for a farm implement company and they did renogiate their contracts repeatedly. The benefits were significantly less than what the original agreements allowed for but at least now they actually can expect to get what they've agreed upon indefinitely.Fair point but I don't really see the relevance. I've worked for companies that had large group plans that were serviced by a name brand insurance company even though the company self insured 100% of the payouts. How is that any different than this employer (military/government) deciding they can self insure for less than they would have to pay another organization?

All insurance by nature is a form of socialized medicine in that we pay a fee to a company to spread the risk over greater numbers so the obligation isn't too great for any one individual. I believe that is different than the single payer government run medical system some seem to want.

Because SOCIALIZED MEDICINE is BAD!!! Didn't you hear? The government can't do anything right! lol

I know you're joking because... well you're Flint, but there are two very good points in your post.

1) socialized medicine is bad. It isn't bad. Good and bad are subjective labels thrown at things we either like or don't like. I don't like it because I don't believe it is consistent with the focus on the individual that our country was founded on. That's just my opinion. Socialized medicine has some excellent points and under different circumstances I would support it. It would have to operate in a vaccuum free from personal agendas and political maneuvering, and the other important part takes us into your second important point.

2) The government can't do anything right! While a truism it isn't really the truth. The government can't do anything efficiently - and sometimes that is right. When we are making international agreements I don't want a quick efficient process with too much opportunity for mistakes and misunderstandings. As frustrating as it is, the slow, seemingly unproductive nature of international interaction is useful in that each government has time to choose words and positions carefully with plenty of opportunities to clarify and reclarify until they reach a point where noone is really happy, but each can live with the agreement.
Things like the military, legal system, and currency are areas which ONLY a government can do right.

It is in every other area that the government falters. While intentions may be good the tendency to build up personal empires for the sake of personal power is what makes the government horribly inefficient at most tasks they take as their own. It isn't the idea but the execution that is flawed usually.

boooring

less words plz

UR STPID. good enough?

ya

cul

Well what I am drawing attention to is that health care received by soldiers is not socialized medicine. Where socialized medicine that the Republickins bitch about is provided by government to anyone, because they breath. Not because they have a contractual relationship, like soldiers, but because they don't have to do anything to get it and in many cases pay nothing into the system who gives it to them. Apples and oranges. No comparison.

Or until the next of the repeated renegotiations. I was referencing the common thread of anti-union rhetoric complaining about the cost of retired workers.They also run their own hospitals.Well, that description in particular is exactly what a single payer government run system would involve, minus the company, though there would be other differences.

But either way, my point is that there is, in the United States, a government funded, administered, and operated medical plan that is good enough and well enough run that a hue and cry is raised over the idea that veterans would have to instead use a private plan that they are already covered under.

Any arguments against the single payer plan will have to come from somewhere other than competence. There are any number of other arguments against it, but we do know that the government can do it.

in all honesty I don't know too many vets who would go to the VA if they had any other option. BusterB's experiences are but a sliver of some of the stories to trickle out of the joint.

Apples and oranges: a comparison.

Like I said, you have to go with "everyone else doesn't deserve it", rather than "the Government can't do it well".

That would be a change in the contract. Soldiers don't have to pay co-pays for care given in the service hospitals or VA's. Retired people pay for Tricare Prime if they want it, a one time fee of $450 for a family. Tricare Standard requires no payment but services are significantly reduced.

Movement to a civilian system of insurance would put them in a pool with everyone else unless the government would pay the fees and costs with no caps, unlikely, and it would subject them to someone who is often not trained to reject care they would otherwise be eligible for in the current system.

It's a tough world out there. I don't have the answer or solution to the larger problem. Becareful what you wish for.

Worse than that- it would subject them to someone who is trained to reject care they would otherwise be eligible for in the current system.

SO we agree to disagree. Those people lack the skills to reject care. They do it on a cost basis only.

oh my semantics alert just went off

yepparoo.

Here's the rub, EVERYONE should get EQUAL care and benefits, IMO. I know some veteran's hospitals are way underfunded, my roommate in LA used to work at the VA hospital there. I think it's atrocious the way vets have been treated in this country with regard to their care after they've gone and fought and put their lives on the line. In some cases, the government completely denies there is anything wrong with them (Gulf War Syndrome). They should have the exact same care the president gets. And I believe everyone in this country should have access to that same care. But that's just me...