Stolen plane
 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It was only a Cessna, but still this guy took it for a seven hour ride with F-16's following him most of the time. Couldn't they have just forced him down? Was this perhaps a test to see what our response was to this type of aircraft? Should I get another :tinfoil: ?

Damm Canadian's just want our Hollywood Movies.

They found him, waiting to be arrested, while sipping on Gatorade.

Product placement?

The whole story was one step above a complete non-event. But proof to extremists that enemies are hiding everywhere to kill us all. No wonder one wasted so much time and bandwidth on a trivial law enforcement story. Someone who may have been hoping to commit suicide; but could not do it himself. After eight hours, nobody would shoot him down. So he landed. A non-event that would have been only one paragraph if not posted by an extremist chock full of fear.

Gee really? An airplane flown by a complete unknown violates, yes violates our airspace headed where to do what? Thats reality not extremist fear.

We want their beer, maybe we could barter.

Reminds me a little of Mathias Rust, the young German chap who flew a hired Cessna via Finland to Moscow in 1987.

I feel sorry for the guy. That's pretty extreme thinking. sheesh.

Cessnas, like cars, routinely cross back and forth across the US Canadian border. The only difference here is someone stole it. Maybe some evil Cannuck will steal a car and blow up your house! Nation disaster. Call for construction of more nuclear bombs!

Wacko gets his penis excited because someone stole a Cessna. We should all feel so violated.

Hey, you left out what was previously posted by pro-american posters...70HP/L...7minutes...Where's Obama...

There you go.

OK, so this is how you wanna play tommy boy?
At least I have a penis. You couldn't get violated in your dreams.
Oh and I haven't forgotten:

Original LIE Posted by tw:
Cite an example of that please. What industry has employees wait up to a decade for their pay?

Another LIE Posted by tw
False. Please CITE ONE TIME where I said anything about Wagoner deserving bonuses - Post anything to corroborate another of tw's blatant LIES. If not post an public apology and a correction on the board. I have put up with tw and tw's attacks for too long. It stops now. Eitherback it up or STFU.

I dunno. I lean more toward Classic's point than not.

We don't know that the guy is harmless. Updates to the story on CNN reveal the guy is Turkish and unhappy. That's not "case closed", but it's concern-worthy.

There's some pretty nasty technology out there. They didn't find him in the plane, so he could have dropped off or hidden something nasty - bio-weapons, radioactive dust, etc.

Could have been anything. Nor did we know what the intentions of the pilot were. Were there any other people on board? Did he fill the thing with explosives... Why did they evacuate? Perhaps because some other friggin psychos flew planes into buildings. Oh wait, that must have been an irrational concern too.
There are a million reasons, sound reasons to be concerned.... Unless your :tinfoil: tells you otherwise.

Sorry TW, call me paranoid, but if someone "unhappy" steals a plane and doesn't contact the FAA, lets fighter jets follow him and jus smiles and waves, lands the thing on U S soil then takes off on foot, damn straight I'm going to be suspicious, and not treat it on the same level as driving a stolen car across the border, as you say happens sooo often :proof?cough:

1. Turks are not generally radicalized.

2. Even if nothing happened, it can still have terrorist purposes: a legitimate dry-run sort of "test" of national security and what is possible.

2a. The event actually serves that purpose no matter what the gentleman's intentions were.

served - that lil trip did more than just give others our reaction time.

If our response times are so secret, then why did a spokesman for Homeland Security give the story to the press? You would think that they would keep it quiet.

Edit: I can understand the Sheriffs office in bumfuck nowhere spilling some information, but why did NORAD and Homeland Security give away such secret info? Maybe it's not that secret?

does no one care this guy is suicidal?


sheesh.

I don't think we know that he's suicidal. There could be a number of reasons why he did what he did.

"Adam Leon, 31, says he stole the plane because he was trying to kill himself and was hoping the military jets would shoot him down."

I recognize that this instance appears to be nothing more than one guy doing what he did. But there are or could be farther reaching ramifications to it. You brought up "secret" not I. Don't know where you are headed with that.

Do you personally know what our reaction time is? I certainly don't, but you don't need to worry about me flying a plane into anything.

Either way it is valuable real life experience & data for anyone who might be considering using planes as weapons.

Whoops.

What they leaked to the press may not have been... *cough100%accuratecough* or could have been... A-a-a-a-ch-hooooodeliberatelymisleadingexcuseme*.

Of course we do. But define harmless. If someone steals a car, is he attempting to take down buildings?

Well someone stole a Cessna in FL, did crash it into a large building. What happened? A whole office was destroyed. Not an office building. Not a floor in that building. A whole office. It was a Cessna for Christ sake. It was simply stolen by someone who walked out, started the plane and flew away.

Why is this story even in the news? A stolen car would do as much damage. Cars are stolen routinely. And many are tracked every day as stolen cars even cross international borders. None of those are news worthy. But this was a Cessna. An event that does not happen every day. A unique event that still is not a significant threat. Only an extremist (or someone as dumb as an extremist) would cast an alarm as if Saddam had more WMDs.

A Ryder truck can take out a whole building. Even more dangerous are 18 wheelers. Large trucks are hijacked or stolen every month. Where are those massive dangers to American from classicman? Oh. What is routine but a greater threat does not cast hype and fear? Exactly. Only wackos see this as bin Laden lurker to kill us all.

Clearly, if the pilot had been OJ Simpson, then we should all be frightened. Not.

Don't let these wackos promote more hype, hate, and fear. They want power. Wackos love to destroy using their fears and myths. It makes them feel strong. Instead, keep life in perspective. It was a Cessna followed by F-16s. Just like a stolen car would be followed by police if it too crossed the border from Canada to the US.

Fear more hijacked and stolen tractor trailers every month. Unlike the Cessna, those can actually do serious damage. Only a wacko would see a single engine Cessna as a threat to America.

Again posting more extremist fears. As glatt noted, "If our response times are so secret, then why did a spokesman for Homeland Security give the story to the press?" Same information is available in the 911 Commission report complete with reasons for that response time.

See those placards on trucks that identify the cargo? Essential information for firemen and other first responders. But wackos so fear terrorist everywhere as to want to remove those placards. Terrorist might use those placards to destroy America.

Why mock extremists like classicman? Well he routinely posted insults constantly at this poster. Time to use that one wacko as an example of who really is America’s greatest threat. Classicman would rather endanger firemen's lives because bin Laden might use those placards to target trucks. Wacko extremist fears are everywhere. It’s not terrorists that are the threat. Wackos see enemies lurking under every bed. Wackos cannot put reality into perspective.

tommy boy, Have you apologized for lying yet ? If not STFU.

Original LIE Posted by tw
False. Please CITE ONE TIME where I said anything about Wagoner deserving bonuses - Post anything to corroborate another of tw's blatant LIES. If not post an public apology and correction on the board. I have put up with tw's attacks for too long. It stops now. Either back it up with facts or STFU.

tommy boy is a liar
 

tommy boy . . . you still haven't responded to this or this

Really? Friend of yours?

Unless you've known this guy for years or you've done an in-depth background check, you don't know what mayhem this guy is capable of -- and even then you can be mistaken. You're just assuming things based on what he said about himself. Very sloppy reasoning, tw.

I admit you can't assume he's a black hat either.

Yeh, a piece of cardboard on the side of a truck - those can't be forged or changed? That would be much more difficult than say... taking over a commercial airliner.
Good grief. that logic isn't faulty, its nonexistent.

So where is that daily attack on Obama? Oh. Somebody said you were wrong. That justified your mental breakdown? Obama is off the hook while you prepare a report on squadrons of Al Qaeda Cessnas massing to kill us all.

You do aspire to what Rush Limbaugh preaches; spinning everything into personal attacks. Classic wackoboy.

Looking forward to your next lie embalmed with fear and more personal attacks. Personal attacks to avoid a reality: even Cessnas are conspiring to kill us all. Why stop what you have been doing for months? (Wackos can’t change until told to do so by the leadership.)

nice non-response - good thing its the last one I'll have to read.

Just another diversion attempted by tommy, but that game has already been played out. Its time to face the reality that you have been called out and are too small a man to admit when you are wrong. You are a transparent as they come.

No emotion in that last post?
No attacks of other posters?
I'm done with you and your petty shit. Back on ignore you go. What little, if any, credibility you had is gone.
All that is left is your blatant dishonesty and hypocrisy.

Another who already did create maximum mayhem crashed his Cessna into a Tampa building. Show me the threat. He took out one office.

If a Cessna was that danagerous, then shake daily in fear of something that really is dangerous - a highjacked and stolen 18 wheeler. Why not worry about a real threat? Why so much fear of an irrelevant Cessna? Threats from that Cessna can only exist with wacko fears. Fears based in perspective would, instead, worry about real threats such as stolen tractor trailers.

Cessna crashed into a building with maximum effect. It destroyed one office. Worry far more about stolen trucks sharing a road with a school bus. If you don't worry about that every day, then logic says that Cessna was a near zero event.

Why would one waste so much bandwidth on it? Extremists fear squadrons of Cessnas massing to kill us all. Evil Russians and Chinese conspiring to destroy the electric grid. Then they can blame Pelosi.

Worry more about a heart attack. Can we blame that on Obama or McCain? Wackos would.

Only threat to America was identified. You, your wacko politics, and your constant personal attacks encourage by your extremists handlers. No wonder wackoboy again will not explain what we can do to stop squadrons of Cessna massing to kill us all.

Maybe he is too busy planning his next attack on Barney Franks? Maybe he will do it with a Cessna? Naaah. That would require intelligent planning. Nothing in his political agenda tells him how to steal a Cessna.

What’s it like to have one reply as your have been doing for months? What did Rush tell you to do next?

3. Plenty of reasons for officials and experts to fear Cessnas
. 3a. Uses of the airspace not previously used, that we have not imagined
. 3b. Uses of crashes not previously used, that we have not imagined

4. No reason for general public to fear Cessnas
. 4a. Unimagined fears illogical
. 4b. More the role of officials and experts to fear such things and address them
. 4c. Nothing to fear but fear itself
. 4d. Fear is self-replicating in a psychological/biochemical sort of way
. 4e. A high state of fear in the public is harmful to practical terrorism preparation

Trust me. I'm from the government.

A Cessna 172,the model that was stolen and illegally flown into our airspace, has a useful load of 830 lb (376 kg). I wonder how much damage 830 lbs of the right explosive would do.

If it was a terrorist simply looking to cause fear, he/she could simply fly it into the path of a commercial jet and cause a collision.

For the devious mind, there are many options, but fear not all is ok. (tw says so)
I mean really what are the odds of someone attacking America? Its not like anyone would use an airplane as a weapon. That's just crazy talk.

All you can think of to do with a plane is to fly it into a building?

"think" - lol

you're a funny guy, dar. You made me chuckle out loud.

Since an unladen Cessna flew into a building, and the building didn't fall down, Cessnas are no danger to anyone. Damn, that's Bush logic. :nuts:

If you fear one Cessna, then why do you not fear hundreds of trucks? Cessnas can do damage. So can stolen cars. But cars can do more damage. Cessnas have a long history of doing little damage when the pilot intentionally tried to maximize damage. Why do you fear the trivial and not fear what is so routine and so much more hazardous. Why do you keep avoding this question?

Dar512 - answer the question. If the Cessna is so dangerous, then why is the National Guard not called out when a truck goes missing? Why do you advocate this double standard?

Think aerosol mist bioweapons and prevailing winds.

Hey Dar - tw asked you a question and he would like you to answer it so he can win this debate.

Welcome to our world, tw. Welcome to our world.

No, if a terrorist was simply looking to cause fear, he/she would bomb a grocery store/UT's suggestion/anything logical that will actually cause extreme fear.

I'm convinced the entire planes into buildings thing were more for symbolism and a point then to cause fear. Honestly, if they wanted they could put the United State's economy to a complete standstill with a few hundred people and biological weapons.

Plus the fact that a Cessna has all the security of a Sears riding mower...

A small plane has the potential to injure or kill hundreds if loaded with, say, gasoline and then crashed into a large gathering of people. Perhaps a high school homecoming football game?

Some friends and I kibitzed about ways to bring the state/country to it's knees using the least number of people. People with little training or skill. I figured it would take me less than twelve men, two with first-enlistment Army training and four decent hunters, to tie up the state and bring it down. PA is an easy target if one is inclined to think that way.

The USA is a little harder because of it's size and mobility but not impossible. The best guess was two hundred men and women, broken into small cells of ten or so, led by a cell leader with mid-level military training and access to common explosives, improvised or commercial, and squad-strength weapons like M-60s, automatic rifles and grenades, would be able to cause enough mayhem to shut down the country.

This is another case of crying terrorist to sell newspapers. And to keep the population afraid of their own shadow. No, we need to just ignore that crap and refuse to be intimidated or panicked.

This was a thief, not a terrorist probe. Perhaps a person slightly unbalanced or misguided, but not a test to see what we'd do or anything.

Don't panic!

If there are hundreds of trucks crossing the border unchecked, I think that's worthy of concern. Do you have a cite for this?

Yeah, right. Because you always answer questions that are put to you.

I guess it depends on the definition of "unchecked". About 4 million enter the US from Mexico and Canada each year, over 10000 per day. I expect hundreds of them are unchecked, if not per day then at least per year.

That doesn't even count the trucks that pick up shipping containers from ports, and don't cross the borders themselves.

Here's what I'm hearing: "Don't worry about one little plane getting across the border unchecked. After all, we've got all these trucks coming through unchecked."

This is supposed to make me feel better?

Don't forget about all of the planes and trucks that drive around within the borders unchecked! That's how the Oklahoma City bombing happened!

eh hem... and 9/11.

But to say that this situation should not cause concern since there are these other issues that are worse, is again illogical.

I didn't mention 9-11, because those planes actually were checked, if not as carefully as passenger flights are today.

It is worth consideration, but it shouldn't cause more concern than other issues that are worse.

You are expected to put life into perspective. And be decent enough to answer my question the first time. You avoided the question where you would have to admit how trivial this Cessna really is.

Not only are hundreds of trucks crossing the border unchecked. What happens to hijacked and stolen trucks? Every truck is multiple times a greater threat then any Cessna. Therefore anytime a truck is stolen, hijacked, or unchecked, then it also must be a front page news story? The Cessna obviously was a trivial threat - hardly worth mentioning.

How often will extremist hype more "Saddam has WMDs" fears before we finally learn how irresponsible that source is? That Cessna is nothing more than a new twist on a routine security check. But to extremists, it proves that enemies are hiding everywhere to kill us all. At what point are extremist myths finally reduced to minimal credibility?

That Cessna was a near zero threat. Cessnas have a long history of, worst case, destroying an office. Or only putting a potmark on a White House wall. But 18 wheelers can easily destroy whole buildings. Therefore every unaccounted for tractor trailer must be a front page story? Only when wackos are promoting more hype, fear, and hate of mythical enemies.

Dar512 - get a grip. Stop empowering these wackos whose lies even wasted the lives of 4000 good American soldiers due to love of war and for the *glory* of hype, fear, and hate of a mythical enemy. That Cessna was a trivial event. Better described as a comedy where clowns in the audience participate in the joke.

Again an extremist rewrites history for a political agenda. American anti-terrorist officers were literally screaming "lights are flashing red". So a wacko administration moved Richard Clarke and his CSEG out of the White House. They drove this nation's #1 anti-terror investigator (John O'Neill) out of the FBI. Later, they even disbanded Alex Station - an office dedicated to only one purpose - get bin Laden.

And yet wackoboy would hype 9/11 as proof that enemies are lurking everywhere to kill us all. Instead we have met the enemy and he is our extremists.

Where was this nation's #1 anti-terrorist investigator when 9/11 happened? He was security for the WTC because he said the real enemy is coming. Not enemies hiding under every bed as wackoboy would now promote. Same enemy that got him thrown out of the FBI. 9/11 is directly traceable to an administration that intentionally subverted law enforcement because wackos, instead, saw enemies elsewhere ... where none exist.

So wackoboy rewrites history to see more enemies ... where none exist. He cites 9/11 - forgetting that it may not have happened had FBI agents in MN, AZ, NY, and IL been permitted to perform their job. How quickly wackos rewrite history to promote more fears when the real enemy was incompetent extremists in highest levels of government.

Why would extremists disband Alec station and Alec Station? And so we still have the same question that a wacko will never answer. When do we go after bin Laden? Wackos need bin Laden alive to promote hype, hate, and fear.

Clearly squadrons of Cessnas are massing at the border to kill us all. Americans with intelligence listen to centrists who saw the 9/11 threat – not wacko extremists who made it possible and who now invent mythical enemies to regain power. Wackoboy even perverts 9/11 to promote an agenda of hype, hate, and fear. This Cessna nonsense is simply his latest example.

A stolen Cessna flys over the mid west far for any major targets. It gets hyped as if it could have been Al Qaeda coming again. Nonsense.

A small aircraft enters Washington restricted airspace on Friday. White House and Capitol evacuations began. Not only were F-16s dispatched. Also Coast Guard helicopters. But somehow this is a back page story? From the AP News:
A second plane threatened that airspace the same day. Ho-hum.

Terrorists are plotting all the time to kill us all? Or sometimes extremists get all excited over non-events because terrorist are massing everywhere to kill us all?

Unlike the stolen Canadian plane that did not respond to the interceptors. That's the difference.

nor was this one stolen, nor did this one come from another country, nor did this one fly erratically, nor did this one "not respond" ....
There is no comparison.

This one actually had a few potential and serious targets. It did not respond to anyone until after an exvacuation of the Capitol and White House started and only after Coast Guard helicopters finally appeared on its wings.

Ho hum. A stole Cessan in North America that has no viable targets - that is a threat to no one - is hyped as if Al Qaeda was massing to kill us all. A non-event. Two planes threaten restricted airspace in Washington. The second gets even less response now that we realize the silliness of that Canadian Cessna threatening to take out a non-existant skyscraper.

F-16s dispatched to intercept errant planes has become quite routine. We would not be discussing any of this except that extremists need us to fear evil. Canadian Cessna was a non-event to most. It would have never even been posted but for classicman. And that is the point. Extremists are still hyping fear and hate at every opportunity.

Well, at least Hillary did not get blamed this time.

Pretty myopic, thinking that only skyscrapers and large planes are a concern. You're letting your hate cloud your judgement. :eyebrow:

Wacko fearful of one Cessna when numerous other Cessnas (including two in one day) easily threaten serious targets and get almost no attention. Even the Capitol and White House started to evacuate because nobody could contact that Cessna. But it gets no attention now that we have put that Canadian Cessna into perspective - Ho Humm.

Routine is to have stray planes threaten irrelevant targets. Routine is to have Cessnas also threaten Washington - without any public hype and fear. Excessive are extrmists who hyped this into more hate and fear of bogeymen hiding everywhere to kill us all.

Ironically same even refused to ask the serious question: when do we go after bin Laden? Clearly, a stray Cessna deserves more attention than getting bin Laden. Why does an extremist fear Cessnas and love it when we all but protect bin Laden? Hyping stray Cessnas and keeping bin Laden alive both promote the political agenda. Promote more hate, myths, and fear.

When extremists cannot defend their political agenda, then they post cheap shots to stir the pot. Or blame it all on Obama. This topic only exists to promote hate and fear - the political agenda.

I absolutely refuse to believe you don't get it. You're so bent on ridiculing Classic for posting his concerns about this incident you're purposely ignoring the obvious possible implications pointed out by UT, DAR, Queenie, and myself.

What else is new Bruce? This has been his game for years. Single out the one who vocally disagrees with him and continue to attack till they leave.