Industry plans were exposed as they began a program to addict 5 year olds - nicotene laced candy; the 14 year old addiction program having been so successful. Today George Jr announces what will begin the end of all future tobacco prosecutions. Seven tobacco executives can lie under oath while on national TV before Congress; a Republican dominated Congress protects those liars - but George Jr thinks prosecution is not fair (all those tobacco bribes most to Republicans had nothing to do with his decisions).

Now from 25 Apr 2001 Wall Street Journal front page:
""Last year, Kristopher Sperry, a young man with a longtime marijuana habit, decided to clean up his life. He got married, became a father, joined a Baptist church, and enrolled as a freshman at Arkansas State University. He earned a "B" average and maintained a spotless disciplinary record.
But this semester, the 23 year old former factory worker lost his financial aid and had to drop out of school because he couldn't afford the $600 tuition. The reason: he had two misdemeanor drug convictions, one in 1998 for marijuana possession and one in 1999 for possession of drug paraphernalia, namely a water pipe. Under a three year old law, that makes him ineligible for federal student aid.
"Arsonist, burglars and convicted felons can still qualify for aid", complains Mr Sperry, who had his driver's license temporarily revoked, paid $275 in fines, and performed a day of community service as a result of the convictions. "I've already paid my price for my crime, I believe. Now I'm having to pay an even more severe price, hindering my education."
... A single conviction of Marjuana possession, by far the most common drug charge, disqualifies a student for a year from the date of conviction. People convicted of crimes that don't involve drugs, no matter how serious [including Timothy McVeigh], are eligible for student aid.
The law has been little noticed until recently because the Clinton administration enforced it only very loosely. But the new Bush administration has decided to get strict.
Consequently, some 26,000 people appear ineligible for federal financial aid for the upcoming school year ...
In an effort to comply [with the law], the Clinton Education Department in 1999 added a new question to the federal financial aid application ... asking about drug convictions. Of 9.8 million applicants, only about 9,000 acknowledged ... As a result they were denied aid.
But 279,000 more applicants left the question blank ...
Then the Bush administration took over. Last month, Education Secretary Rod Paige, after consulting with the department's legal consel, decided that the wording was now so clear that the government should deny aid to anyone who left it blank.""

An intelligent president would also mandate that all Presidents who did cocaine, a significantly more dangerous drug, must resign. But that would be too intelligent?

Orin Hatch, another power crazed politican, is a big promoter of these laws. Hatch says that mandatory sentences for these 'crimes' are necessary because judges are too lenient. Of course you cannot be too lenient on marijuana possession since even alcohol is more danagerous.

Mandatory sentences for marijuana distribution is on the order of 6 and 20 some years making marijuana sentences harsher than murder! Furthermore, since jails are now so crowded with mandatory drug sentences (more than 25% in every prision), murders are being released on parole earlier to relieve the overcrowding. That is what a more intelligent president and his right wing extremist Attorney General wants. Clearly the solution to higher crime rates is more prisioners and mandatory prosecution of marijuana possession. Clearly you must be intelligent to understand this.

Consulting other world intelligence leaders, Bugs Bunny said it best: "What a Maroooon".

God(turn of phrase only) help american citizens coz nothing will save america.
 

Bush Jr is a puppet, plain and simple, all US pollies are to some extent bcuase they are funded by corperate interests but Bush takes it to new hights, or lows as the case may be. The fact is Bush ain't all that bright, he grammar, verbal gaffs (i know its hard to put food on your family, i know its hard for small business i was one) and the sheer stupidity of some of his decisions reflect this clearly, but he wil remain there becuase those who pull the strings behind the scenes find him useful, he can be pushed and prodded into doing anything poeple like Askcroft, and is right-wing extremeists cronies want. He's nice ot hte extrme to big business, and ....god where do i stop it just goes on and on and on. He is not in control of the whilehouse at all, he is run, propped up by his advisers, daddys advisers, he is as bad is Japans PM he jsut has better people around him. What can i say? Unless omshting major changes (which i can't see happening short of revolution) america is gonna be, for the normal citizen, a very fucked up place to live. Hopefuly the international community will grow a backbone and join hte EU is starting ot not listen and stand up to america and the internatioal community can knock this corperatised, basterdised pale immitation of what america was founded on off its high hosre so its founders can stop spinning in there graves.

This leads into one other point i'd liek to mate, it seems that every centuary or so there is one dominant power, in the 1800's it was Britan, in the 1900's it was America, the question is who is next, and i relaly do hope its not China, and that we don't blow outselves out of existance over a plane or 2 b4 we see.

And jsut to clear one thing up i am Agnostic, not Athiest.

Orrin Hatch is from Utah--enough said.

There is an image of Bush that continues to burn in my mind--when he went to visit that Drug Rehab Program during his campaign...and then talked about how he kicked booze on his own. Now how is that supposed to help someone in rehab? Not to mention, did he REALLY do it on his own...or did Daddy assist in it?

On his first 100 days, I'll give him a B-...better than I expected.

100 down, 1300 or so to go...

So you're blaming Bush for a law passed under a previous administration?

He was the one that decided to enforce the law.

Re: God(turn of phrase only) help american citizens coz nothing will save america.
 

No, Shrub is an <b>idiot</b>, plain and simple.

Plainer and simpler?
Z

*laughz, love the shrub bit
Yes, he is, but my point is that the only reason he is there as he is easy to maipulate, hes stupid no question, when he speaks off the cuff he causes an international incident every time, he needs his advisers, and they manipulate him to thier own ends (Ashcroft?). American presdients are always aprtly at the will of big businss coz of campaign donations (consider this, project HAARP, based in alaska has a 100% success rate for taking out ANY electronic systems, including missles anywhere, yes instead they go for the unreiable 60BILLION dollar system that oddly enough is made by the companies that gave oh so much money to campaign funds. You can find more on HAARP at MANY webistes and the offical military page, whos addy i have forgotten) but hes taking it one step further and its damn scary.

[quote]Originally posted by jaguar
*laughz, love the shrub bit

It's hardly creative of me, but thanks.

Yes, he is, but my point is that the only reason he is there as he is easy to maipulate, hes stupid no question, when he speaks off the cuff he causes an international incident every time, he needs his advisers, and they manipulate him to thier own ends (Ashcroft?).

More to the point, Shrub is totally in the hands of his advisors, many of which, you may have noticed, held similar positions of power in Bosh Sr.'s administration. Shrub is, at best, a pleasant face on a misguided, out-of-date regime. How else can you explain the push for a space-based missle defense system- which trashes the ABM treaty, will cost tens of billions of dollars, and may not work after all of that- in a world where the primary nuclear threat comes not from ICBMs launched by the USSR but from terrorists carrying them in suitcases.

At the worse, Shrub is a pleasant face on a regime which is not merely misguided- it's entirely guided, in an extremely unwise direction.

Not that Al "Man o'Wood" Gore was much better, but c'mon,
Z

thats the point i missed, the bomb that takes out new york, will either be in a briefcase(the old USSR gave out 50 of these to KGB agents, they recalled them and get 3 back, scary eh?) or in a satchel back attached to the bottom of a boat, and *no* amount of facny missles that don't hit are gonna help that

Sure, Dubya is doing things that we here are calling out-of-date. But...49 million people apparently agree with him and voted him into office.

Now I know that my home state of Missouri (excluding St. Louis) is about 10-15 years behind general society. (St. Louis is only 2 or 3 years behind.) So, what worries me is...are WE a bit ahead of the times? Is the majority of our country outdated?

I say yes to this. It's not like we have to be cosmopolitan like some of the folks in Europe, but this country is beginning to show its age...a little too much.

Welp, as my Dad says, nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

Not that they don't keep trying,
Z

Re: Questions of George's Intelligence
 

George Carlin noted two men in a rowboat who paddle into New York, throw a bag of deadly germs on the pier, and row back out to sea.

We cannot even stop whole containerloads of drugs. What is going to stop a tactical nuclear bomb. Hundreds (not just 10s) of billions of dollars on a questionable anti-ballistic missile system that responsible scientists say will not work but that Reaganites insist otherwise?

The title of this thread is "Questions of George's Intelligence". He would save a lot more lives if he prosecuted seven lying tobacco executives. Ahh... but there are more legalized bribes if you don't prosecute 7 lying corporate presidents. There are more legalized bribes if you waste $100billion on a questionable defense inititive.

In the thread "In the Navy, you can spend a pretty dime.." is a desperate need for carrier airplanes. Instead we waste money on an intercontinential missile defense when Patriot missiles (only theatre defense) cannot even hit one 1960 and 1970 Scud missile. Go figure.

there is one key thing i pointed out b4. the missle system is purely a payoff to the companies that gave them so much in campaign funds.
IS canada there is a small US research station called HAARP. Its a series of VERY high power transmitter that can be aimed up ni any direction, they cause the ionisatino of a small aprt of the atonsphehere, whci frys any electronic systems, places, missles, sats etc that fly thgouh it, it cost 200,00 to set up a HAARP facality.
Officially HAARP has not operated since OCt '99 but u can pick it up ona radio at 3.39Mhz in most of the world its that powerful.
instead they choose a highly untested/unrelaible system cositng tens of billions.

It's a good bet that missiles are hardened against such a weapon, unfortunately -- after all, they have to operate in an environment full of nuclear-generated EMP. While I agree that ballistic missile defense no longer need be a high priority, I don't think this weapon could take the place of it.

=)
Yea i know it sounds like that but HAARP isin't your average electormagnetic weapon, it creates a field that can PHYSICALY destorys the objects that pass through it.
http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/
is the offical military page

"...large regions of the atmosphere could be lifted to an unexpectedly high altitude so that missiles encounter unexpected and unplanned drag forces with resultant destruction...

"Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device. ... molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved. Besides actually changing the molecular composition of an atmospheric region, a particular molecule or molecules can be chosen for increased presence. For example, ozone, nitrogen, etc. concentrations in the atmosphere could be artificially increased..."



are quotes from
http://www.crystalinks.com/haarp.html

A quick search on http://www.google.com yields plenty of articles about HAARP, there are also many conspiricy theories surrounding it, including a system of mind control. Conspiricies aside, the uses of HAARP are large and very, very dangerous.

You WHAT?!
 

So, the White House says they can't help us when it comes to high gas prices this summer.

You mean to tell me that the big W and the big Dick (with his $35 million made in big oil last year) can't get their buddies in Houston to cut some slack? We can't increase our own production? We can't take some oil from Iraq?

Thank God I own a Geo Metro...

Well yes they can help you. (i live in australia, thats why its a they, not an us)
But they don't wnat to, you expect your 'elected' governemtn to HELP CITISENS? blasphemy, that'd be against the corperate constitution.
</rant>

Oil prices, wherever u get it from are gonna continue to rise whatever any goverment does, there is a limited supply and growing demand. Time to think alternative people.

*laughs*

I know jaguar...we shouldn't expect ANYTHING from our current administration. ;-)

Truth be told, the US is spoiled. We have some of the lowest gasoline (or petrol as you Aussies call it) prices in the world...nothing like what is going on in Europe (or what happened in France and Belgium last year). Not to mention, we manufacture some of the worst gas-eaters on earth. (Those fu**ing SUVs) As I said previously, I own a Geo/Chevrolet Metro. With its twin, the Suzuki Swift, they are two of the highest gas-economy cars in the US. Unfortunately, with my poor car having one foot in the grave, the gas mileage isn't what it used to be. Not to mention, I think the EPA's estimates are b.s.

The only reason I even drive to work anymore is because my current employer pays for it. Before that, I was a happy little subway and bus rider. And depending on what I do in my next job, I may be back on the El again.

Re: Questions of George's Intelligence
 

George Jr continues to inflict damage on US international relations. Clinton would have called the Chinese Prime Minister up front and established an understanding before political forces threw the China Spy Plane incident totally out of control - damage which still festers today.

Had George Jr consulted people who come from where the work gets done (if he had any science advisors before making an extremist right wing decision), then he would not advocate increases in Greenhouse gases.

Most readers don't listen to overseas news reports and opinions. The news reports of serious damage already traceable to global warming are now daily in most international broadcasts - which unfortunately paint all Americans as evil as a lower intelligence George Jr - a man who could not even place a phone call to China.

International relations continue downhill. The US is a founding member of the international commmission on Human Rights. The US was just voted off the commission because of human rights abuses promoted by anti-American Jesse Helms, Dan Burton, and other extremist right wing Republicans. Now with an extremist right wing President, a Human Right commission no longer views US as an advocate of international human rights. Why is that not obvious to the common American? Unfortunately we were so brainwashed by the rhetoric of a previous administration that we did not even see Saddam Hussein massing to invade Kuwait. No wonder we don't notice world opinion changing; the US no longer an considered an advocate for human rights.

Now the US has been voted out of an international commission on illegal drug trafficing. A world of great relations is souring quickly. The world gave Pres Clinton a standing 5 minute ovation in the UN because the man was an intelligent leader. You may not have liked Clinton. But then you should advocating the impeachment of George Jr.

I'm not advocating a silly impeachment. I am only noting the world news - that George Jr is quickly souring US relations with every other nation in the world - this when the US comes off of some of the best international relations in generations. What a shame that we who love extremist right wings politican have done to this nation. In a government now dominated by extremists, it is amazing that a KKK murder is finally coming to trial - no thanks to Jesse Helms, et al.

Just a reminder - I never once voted for Bill Clinton and never was his top notch supporter. In fact I grew up a member of the Young Republicans. However that is how bad the current US President and his corrupt Congrssional power brokers in Congress have become.

Why can't two oil executive - Cheney and Bush - see the energy waste in America often directly traceable to stifled American innovations? Both are oil men who only understand "more consumption" and the status quo IOW both are MBAs who don't understand the nature and power of "innovation". They may have been born intelligent, but then they were educated.

More Questions of George's Intelligence
 

I never much believed the campaign jokes about George Jr's intelligence. But as comedians interviewed on Nightline noted, those George Jr. intelligence jokes don't work very well as people now suspect they were not jokes.

Well, he insulted the German Chancellor, talks the economy into recession to promote a economic joke called a tax cut, ignores the work in Kosovo when reintegration now requires careful attention, encouraged the dic head leader of Israel to murder hundreds of Palestinians and to destroy the last vestiges of the Oslo Accords because a few Jews died (see the Mitchel report for a logical assement of Middle East violence), undermines relations with China and North Korea, earns derogatory comments from the Norwegian Foreign Minister, denies citizens an education because they used something less dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes, protects the cigarette industry whose executives can lie boldfaced to Congress while under oath, hires a drug enforcement offical who clearly and stupidly declares that drug treatment does not work ... What more can this darling of right wing extremists do to appease the power hungry fringe? He continues...

Regarding the US removal from Human Rights commission-
From The Economist of 12 May 2001 - a conservative news publication:
"" ... the United States itself was far from blameless in the affair. Its embarrassment was no doubt partly a consequence of incompetence. It has no ambassador at the UN present ... But an American ambassador would have had his work cut out last week. Even many of Ameria's allies have been alarmed at the apparent disdain for multilaterialism of the new administration. The humility that George Bush preached as a candidate - "If we are an arrogant nation, they will resent us," he said - seems to have got lost in the scramble to reject the Kyoto treaty on climate change, the treaty to setup a world criminal court, the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty, the effort to make cheap AIDS drugs available in poor countries, a convention on disappearances, and so on. [the man has not even been in office six months - what relationship has he not damaged? What progress has he not destroyed?] If so many traditionaly friendly countries failed to come to America's support, that was partly because America itself has been unneccessarily peremptory.""

The man has so much extremist right wing sediments that even close US friends are stepping aside. US only a year ago had nothing but historically the most cordial relations with most every world nation. In less than six months, a mental midget has destroyed relations with almost every nation except those in S America. But then he continues to only make things worse:

""The most regrettable consequence of the episode is that it has played straight into the hands of the right wing members of Congress who like to believe that the UN and all its doings are resolutely opposed to the United States [of course everyone is an enemy to a right wing mentality]. Never mind that this outfit [Human Rights Commission], sitting in Geneva and reflecting not the UN secretariat but the governments of some 53 members, has little to do with the UN proper. Plenty of far-right Republicans are already tempted to seize last week's vote as a chance to throw out the deal, negotiated in the final days of the Clinton administration, whereby America at last coughs up its unpaid dues in return for a cut in its UN contributions [and restructuring of UN operations]. That would set America's relations with the UN on a downward spiral once more - to the detriment of even more than human rights.""

Even from a responsible conservative news publications, George Jr's last six months appear, at best, incompetant. The list of destruction is so long that most don't even know of 10% of Geroge's undoing.

From where i stand (outside amerika, thank god) yes, US international relationships are really going downhill. Its obvious the US thinks they are just the bee's knees and can do what they want without any consultation with anyone, no wonder they were voted off(drug trafficiing/human rights), they are not a team player(afterwards they threaten to withdraw funding like a little kid who was kicked out for bullying and threatens to take his ball with him). America has always refused to have equal standards, they still refuse to sign the Landmine treaty (it might undermine your defence) , YES IT DOES DO THAT, BUT IT SAVES THE LIVES AND LIMBS OF INNOCENTS. Damn after being to vietnam and seeing kids with missing limbs from american landmines....Now we have Koyoto, which is not aparantly in the US economic interest, well we will see whats in the US economic interest when miami starts to flood won't we. Then we have the Missle shield........I am hoping the US becomes isolated and without many close allies and the rest of the world bands together in the spirit of cooperation to takes its place on the world stage.

Thanks
 

Thanks to tw (once again) for an in-depth and through pots above me, with i had hte time/patience to structure apoint so well....=)

Right now, I'm just waiting for them to impeach Dubya. On a count of stupidity.

*begins preparing his "Bring Back Bill" movement

~Mike

It would undermine South Korea's defense, actually.

By its nature, the lives and limbs of innocents are not the first priority in determining which weapons should be used in war.

You telling me a line of claymores are gonna stop the north Koreans?
You gonna tell me that North Korea is really gonna attack, knowing that they need US grain/aid? Come on, its not gonna happen, they know they woudl not win, it owudl achieve nothing from Kim Il Jong (or whatever his name is i forget, its late and i'm tired) The cold, ideological war is over, the evil godless commie scum aren't gonna be taking over anyhtign in the near future, world economies and trade agreements have given the western wrold even biggest sticks to threaten these countries with, and they don't cost lives, unlike nukes...or landmines.

I don't think claymores would be prohibited by the treaty, actually. But there's more than claymores on that border, and the idea isn't to STOP them, it's to slow them down long enough for your army to stop them.

Rationally, no. But rationally they wouldn't have fired a missile over Japan a year or so ago either. Remember the picture of the earth at night that was popular a few months ago? North Korea stands out quite well -- the whole country is dark except for Pyongyang. They've got to be really damn poor, which could make them really desparate too.

Please. World economies and trade agreements are fine, but as a threat they pale compared to nukes and mines. And while I know the Cold War is over, and you know the Cold War is over, does Kim Jong Il know the Cold War is over?

Yes they are desperate, desperate and starving, they relly incredibly heavily on forign aid, which would be suspended in the event of a military strike, thankyou for backing up my previous point. As for the missle, it was a cheap stunt.

a: i'd love to see north korea threaten America with a mine. B, they don't have nukes, or to our knowledge, chem or bio weapons. Yes Kim does, why else would he be (until the ham-fisted Bush Jr came into office) be in talks with the US?

Decades of isolation and terrible goverment has crippled North Korea, its war machine too is in no state to atack South Korea, and once US troops started landing....

THey have nothing at all they could gain for a definate-lose conflict except pride, and yet more scare resources.

Re: Questions of George's Intelligence
 

Kim Jong Il did in mid 1990s as he terminated his (father's) nuclear program. That has now changed since we elected a mental midget. N Korea has announced intentions to restart their nuclear program. This is directly traceable to George Jr.

From http://www.isn-lase.ethz.ch:

""Many, both inside and outside of the Clinton administration, felt that a breakthrough had been made that would fortify the North-South rapprochement that was underway. When the new administration made a number of public statements that expressed deep suspicions about both Kim Jong Il and the negotiations, Kim retaliated by cancelling a carefully arranged future visit to Seoul. Not only had a potential path to better US-North Korean relations been blocked, but Kim Dae Jung's 'sunshine policy' had clouded over.""

That strategic analysis made before George made things worse. Who elected this man anyway? Was she a bimbo (now person non-grata in the eyes of both parties) heavily caked in makeup looking so much like Tammy Faye? And who is this man anyway who operates with the mentality of an MBA? How did we get into so many international problems so quickly?

Re: Re: Questions of George's Intelligence
 

It's quite simple: A bunch of hucksters in Texas, Missouri, New Hampshire, and the western and southern US felt that the last President we had was too much of a playboy (he was obviously, but rather than look at the policies, they looked at the person). Dubya looked like a good guy, a normal human being. And he stumbles over words too. And it appears that some folks in the West and South have IQs less than 70, so this was very appealing to them. In addition, it would appear that some folks in Florida have problems with depth and spatial perception. *turn sarcasm off* Texas is one thing, but the US as a whole is over 10 times the population of Texas, not to mention a bunch more bureaucracy. Bush looks to his father and of course, Ronnie, as his heroes. Because we all know that things *looked* very good in the 80s. It took us 4 years of Bush Sr. to realize that Ronnie really didn't deserve to go up on Rushmore.

[Edited by sycamore on 05-18-2001 at 11:51 PM]