The 24 hour engagement.
 

Long-time lurker.

After some rough patches in my relationship, went on a nice weekend away with my girlfriend. Proposed. She said yes.

Drove her home last night. Got to her place, she took off the ring, handed it to me and said "I can't marry you, and we shouldn't see each other anymore."

As I said, things had been a bit rough lately as we were trying to sort out some issues. Marriage had been talked about quite a bit, and last weekend she said she didn't want to go on this trip...until I said "Ok, let's take the pressure off and just have a fun weekend then." (this trip had been planned originally as THE BIG WEEKEND.) Asked her before we left "So, you said you needed more time...is this something you'll be able to communicate with me about, or am I just going to have to take a chance at some point in the future?" Her response: "Don't tell me about it, don't ask me about it...I want to be surprised."

Thought we'd turned a corner. Thought things were better. Got wrapped up in my head that if I didn't take action soon, it would be worse. I listened to my heart. I proposed. She said yes. We were happy, for a day.

My heart is an idiot.

So I'm sitting here trying to make sense of it all. I'm hanging on to the idea that when it all became more real, she panicked and reacted.

I'm just smart enough to know that there's very little I can do to make things better, but a multitude of things I can do to make things worse. So I'm currently all about giving her time and space. I'm not calling. I'm not driving by her place. I'm steering clear of her friends and family. I'm not standing outside her window with a boombox playing Peter Gabriel songs.

For myself, I'm holding it together hanging on to the hope that it was just a panic reaction and that it could turn around at any moment. I'm kind of hanging on to that to get through today so I can go back to work tomorrow and just busy myself with work to get through the week.

I'm suppressing the ideas that tell me that now is the time to take action, to win her back, to convince her that she was misguided...whatever. Those ideas got me into this mess.

I'm aware that this could be the end of it. I guess I'll have to deal with that as it comes.

But I could use a little advice from any of you willing to throw in two cents.

Consider yourself lucky she ended the engagement now instead of after making a public announcement, sending out invitations, etc. Obviously that's little consolation for you, but man, it could be so messy down the road if she's not committed to you.

How long have you been going with her?

been together 'bout a year and a half. Knew I wanted to have some sort of relationship with her (even just as a friend) from the day I met her. We retroactively considered that our first date.

Sounds like her first instinct, of not going, was the right one. She probably was drawn in by the romance of the trip and the proposal, and after you guys got back realized it was a mistake.

Protip (more pro than I wish I was): never propose during or immediately after a "rough patch". If your girl says she needs time, give her time and don't try to step up the romance or the relationship until things are good and have been good for some time. A lot of people try to "fix" their relationship by getting married or having a kid, and this is a terrible idea... never never do that!

That said, you may have to let this relationship go. Don't push it. Give her the time and space she needs... if she comes back around, that's great. If not, realize that it wasn't meant to be.

I can only speak for myself, but nothing sends me running faster than relationship pressure when I need space... something to keep in mind, perhaps, for future reference.

how old are you two?

I'm 33, she's 28.

tough to give any advice with what info there is. you seem to have your head on straight. tiki's advice seems good....but you need to keep in mind that she's a nutter. I don't think I'm qualified to offer any....I married jinx after 7 years of being together....there really was never much question about whether we'd end up together....it kind of just WAS.

just from a common sense standpoint, though....if she has ANY doubt...then I don't think you want to try to convince her. she should WANT to. neh?

Soon? Marriage is supposed to be forever; that means she has to still want to marry you tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. If there's only a limited opportunity window, if you feel like you have to act fast or else, then you shouldn't be marrying this person.

Noted.

Tiki: I completely understand that proposing doesn't solve problems. I get that. As I said, I thought we'd turned a corner. It seems that I was wrong that things were better.

Clodfobble: You hear "Wow. I hope he/she proposes soon...or else he/she will lose them" once, and it gets in your head. Insidious. Forever is a long time, especially if you're living with a sense of regret for not getting it out in the open how you feel. Clearly, it's risky. But please, I'm still struggling with the action/inaction thing. I'd love to hear how great it is to know for sure that both sides are absolutely at the best possible point to have some fairy tale thing of being able to wait a lifetime knowing that "tomorrow will be just as sure as today", regardless of taking the chance for actually making a commitment.

lumberjim: Thanks. I thought we were approaching a point of commiseration. I'm hoping she's not a nutter. I'm hoping she saw the concreteness of it and panicked. Time will tell.

BigV: check.

I guess where I'm at is this mess of trying to react to all possible situations. I'm trying hard to focus on her words and her intent and I've got this noise of badly written sitcom plots and nonsense pop psychology constantly eating at my brain and it gets easy to forget what she says or does...

I'm feeling weak, small, and alone.

:comfort:

I don't have much else to say, being pretty hopeless at relationships and understanding women and such. But I say this: your heart is NOT an idiot, and you were right and wise to ask her if it felt right to you.
There is much, much more regret in the things you never dared try, than in the things you tried that didn't work.

FWIW, my guess is, give her a week, and then call her, see if she wants to talk, see how it goes. Just my guess, though, that's roughly driving advice from a guy riding the bus.

Yeah, a kick in the balls will do that to you.
But you're 33 and rational, so you're not desparate just depressed.

Many's the happily-ever-afters that start with fits and jerks, so be cool and see what happens. You sure as hell don't want to marry her if she's not sure she's committed to it.
Peace, brother. :chill:

AH....I was referring to Tiki. ....being a nutter. ...not your lady.

I wish I had said this to my second husband. I married him even though a tiny voice in the back of my head kept saying "Don't do it!".

I'm sorry to hear that you've been thru this upsetting episode. I'm sure I'd feel the same way you are feeling today if it had happened to me. I think you are handling it wisely, from what you've said here.

As has been pointed out, it's difficult to know exactly what's going on withought knowing all the details, so I'm not going to pretend to have some awesome insight into what you should do. One thing, though: if (and that's a big IF) she's the kind of person who can change her mind suddenly, you might not want to be marrying her. I don't like surprises.

I do think Tiki is on to something - the lady might have been expecting a lighthearted, 'no pressure' weekend and got a proposal instead. She might have originally agreed out of the momentum of the moment - then later realized she should have declined.

Hang in there. :)

That's the other aspect I was referring to; the "right after a rough patch" part. If it's getting better, you have to give the "better" a chance to settle in and get comfortable... months or seasons, not weeks.

Again, I'm speaking from my own experience and others may have very different experiences, but a proposal is very heavy and a lot of pressure to drop on a girl who just told you she wanted more time.

It sounds, from your description, like she was going to back out, agreed to go anyway because you promised her a no-pressure, fun weekend, and then you ambushed her with a proposal. That may not be how she perceived it, but that's the impression I got from the way you described it.

If you do end up getting back together with her, can I recommend listening and paying more attention to her cues, and not pushing things forward against her wishes because of your own restlessness/eagerness for progress?

I am not trying to make you feel bad, I am trying to shed some perspective on what may have gone wrong and how you can prevent it from going worse, if you do continue seeing this woman.

I hope things work out for you.

Highly creative and expressive people with intense depth of feeling usually appear inexplicable and somewhat crazy from the perspective of the very mundane.

Is that 'crazy chix sp33k' for 'I'm not a nutter?'

No, just "You're boring and shallow and you don't get me." :flounce off in a huff:

well...i AM very mundane......everyone knows....no use pretending.

I didn't flounce off anywhere and I don't even own a huff. I'm just pointing out that Jim thinking I'm insane, especially based on the meager relationship advice I've given here, is a larger reflection on Jim than on me.

i wasnt basing it on this thread. and i dont REALLY think your crazy. you are a bit of a nutter though. you have to admit

Everything said already seems correct, that she realized it wasn't right after the instinctive yes. Maybe then she decided that if she was going to give you a definite no, life together after that would be awkward, so a complete split is necessary. To go from instinctive yes to absolute no in 24 hours is a little weird.

Maybe she has a terrible secret that she thinks makes her un-marriage-worthy.

Old friend of mine was starting to think about marriage when he went to work a summer job at a hospital. They gave him a job working patient records. They asked him to learn the system, so to try it out, he puts his girlfriend's name in. It turned out that she had given birth a few years earlier at the hospital. It was her terrible secret, she gave the baby up for adoption, never revealed to anybody... including her boyfriend of 2 years. When he confronted her with it, she immediately never wanted to talk to him again, blocked his number, and called the hospital and had him fired.

phew

In any case, the best bet right now is a lot of long walks in the park, listening to deep music on your music player. In four weeks, no sooner, you get to write her a careful email just telling her what you life has been and asking what's been up in her life. No dwelling on feelings or suggestions of getting back together.

Also, in 11 days you are permitted to look lustily at that hottie at work. The one with the sun dress.

(Tiki, sorry if it didn't come through in my post, I was trying to poke fun at LJ, not at you.) :p

I'm in the middle of a complicated divorce, Jim. Who isn't a bit of a nutter when they're under extreme emotional duress?

Nice of you to throw that at me at every possible opportunity, though.

Thanks, hon. :hug:

Why is there not a hug smilie? :(

Find one I'll add it

Maybe?

http://cellar.org/2009/hug.gif

But they aren't the same species as the regular ones

you wanna piece a me?
yeah...well...rub some dirt on your feelings, mary. and if anything, I've been holding back on the crazy chick shots.

I like both of 'em! Cute.

Because clearly, you're a class act.

that's true.....

I DO try to consider peoples feelings before I step on them.

"You can't handle the truth!" Yeah, sorry jim. Not buying it.

What is up your butt? Do you think I was overly harsh to the OP? I tried to be gentle, but I also tried to be honest about the situation as I perceived it, and give him good advice. I certainly wasn't trying to step on his feelings and I hope he doesn't feel like I did. Not sure why you used it as an opportunity to take a pot shot at me, nor why you're continuing to do so.

well. it began as a kind of a friendly jab. then...the new guy thought i was talking about his old lady...so i corrected him....and then you got all serious.

i assumed you were being sarcastic when you called me a class act, so i dove into the punch and tried to break your fist with my chin by adding that i trample people's feelings routinely.

I can see where you might have interpreted that as my saying that you trample peoples feelings. ...but that's not what i meant.

not buying what?

!!have all the women in the world gone MAD!>:??

We're women. Duh.

Why yes jim, yes we have.

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

:lol:

Disenchanted: RUN!!! Sorry. I just have a hard time with women who play the yes/no/yes/no game, which is how I read your post. I could be wrong, jsut saying...

Tiki: The Cellar would be a much darker drearier place without your input - I love your perspective in so many things, but admit it. ALL of us in here are a little nuts. That's why we get along so well. I'll be the first to admit I'm crazy - I don't think LJ meant it as an insult. I take it as a compliment. Like you said - miunderstood by the mundane.

And LJ: FAR form mundane. Feel free to step on my feelings any time. (Bare feet preferred.)

Thanks, Queen. I think he should start by being friendly, before moving on to the friendly jabs. Especially in rather serious threads about failed relationships.

There's a time and a place for all things.

GONE mad???


GONE??

Have you been paying attention?

Zen, it takes a little madness to achieve greatness. :king:

there are no serious threads on the cellar.

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/as...019ddeb1c8.jpg

There are serious threads on the cellar.

Clods thread about her son for one. There are many more.

i did try being nice to you. you were too busy giving me lectures about forum etiquette to hear it.

I still insist that I have yet to be mean to you.

this time is coming to an end, i fear. ....you know what the music means....

ooh that picture was rather large.... I'll see if I can edit.

ummmmm...... Clod's thread is called "My Kid is a damn nutter". Yup, that's taking it really seriously. A little on the silly side doesn't hurt, people who insist on zero levity should probably....... EAD :p

but to return to the OP, Dude, that sucks. but frankly, marriage shouldn't change anything except your taxes and maybe address. If there's any rockiness visible in the relationship -recent past, present or future, now is not the time. She may still be the woman for you, but not now. you're doing the right thing by backing off and holding. it does feel like crap. but soon it won't. and on the bright side, you're a bloke -you're not also dealing with the satanic whisperings of the biological clock

Of course. I like the madness. Well, I certainly like the eccentricity. Weird, random, geeky, all good, just don't be boring. Or mean.

Tiki is certainly in the "like" category. I meant that in a good way. :D

I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't think Clods issues should be taken lightly in any way, and I didn't notice anyone else doing so either. Of course, her thread was just an example. As I said, there are plenty more, and usually people treat them with the courtesy and respect the OP probably needs. That's all I'm saying.

Sometimes it's best to do your bickering elsewhere...like in the post whore thread I guess. :)

Uh, I'm in no place to say how people should or shouldn't respond.

But I guess I was hoping for something other than a breakdown in what emoticons the place should have, or a pissing match between regulars.

I'm still at a loss, but hearty thanks to the people that did respond in earnest and on topic.

It's a good sign, man, a good sign. It means people care enough about your plight to keep coming back. Then without further background information or new development, they amuse themselves, so the thread drifts around a little.
It's like the hospital shows where the cut from the ER to waiting room when things are slow. :handball:

:) thanks.

I tried. And I hope it all works out for you, whether with this girl or one you have yet to meet.

so hey, let me try to drag this back on topic with another consolidated reply.

zengum: I like your line of thinking with the bias towards regretting action vs. regretting inaction. It's just a little academic right now. Depending on how this shakes out, I'll have more insight to whether my bias for action was the right one.

xoxoxoBruce: I'm trying to hang on to hope that it was all panic, but you're right about feeling kicked in the nuts.

alluvial: I probably haven't given full enough detail to say whether I'm a jackass worthy of her being retrospectively glad about her decision.

tiki: I thought we'd turned a corner. There doesn't seem to be a set recipe for how long or how much bliss before it's ok, yeah?

undertoad: big wonky secret is a possibility, sure. But how does one work around or through that?

Queen of the Ryche: It's a small sample set. Right now it's a yes/no. Not quite enough to distinguish a pattern. But I hear you on the possibility of repetitive oscillation (the yo-yo effect)

monster: Aye. There aren't a lot of rules about the significance and temporal locality of troubles though. It's hard to gauge how bad or how recent things are in this sort of decision.

So here's the deal: I'm driving myself batty staying distant, but the longer I go, the more it feels like I'm playing some ill-defined game. I'm not supposed to contact her, yeah? Give her her space, right?

I love her. No matter how fouled up this is right now, a couple days haven't changed how I feel. I'm getting seriously wrapped around the axle on this idea that I'm not supposed to contact her in any way, because it's feeling like a really stupid game. One that everyone has a foggy idea of the rules of (consistent or not), but they hold steadfast to.

I've not contacted her. Game or not, I'm allowing myself the possibility that no contact is the right thing right now.

And for those that say I've not given enough information for specific advice, I'll freely lay out way more relationship history than you'd care to hear. I'm trying to err on the side of "just enough", but you know, I signed up here a couple years ago when I thought I'd found a place that could help me with my last failed relationship.

My advice was not based on any set recipe, but simply on observation, and on your description of the situation.

If everything had gone as you hoped, then clearly I would be wrong and my advice would be moot for your situation.

hey there, disenchanted! How did GF leave it? did she say "never darken my door again" .... "What?!?!?!?!? Er no way" .... "Hmmmmmmm I need some time" ......"I'll be in touch"....
IMHO there are no rules, as such, except to listen to your partner, and communicate with them about how you feel. Did she say she needs space/time? Then I'd say that'd be about a week; then contact her with a gentle, "How are things with you" type communication. Did she say "I'll be in touch ..." then leave it to her, however tough that is, however long it is.

We can't tell you what to do, however much information you give us. Only your GF has the clues. Ask her, gently, to share them with you.

Oh, and by the way, xob is right in post #52 ...

One doesn't, unless given an opportunity to do so by the other one.

The advice we give you has to be pretty general because there is no recipe.
But I can give you one solid fact... the one that loves the least, controls the relationship. Always.

That is so true.

Dis, yeah... we are better at supporting people through problems than actually solving them, unless the solving can be done directly somehow.

Without the lass showing up and working the issues too, we are kind of powerless, but we are a mass of caring people with ideas and ready to share ideas if that helps.

People are sometimes surprised when they get the advice they actually needed, but weren't looking for. Perhaps we can help you through your pain, if we can't help you with your relationship.