20th Anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall
 

Am I the only one who remembers this day and how absolutely amazing it seemed as it was happening?
I'm a little surprised that no on has mentioned this.

What day?

My mother brought me a piece of the wall, I cannot believe that piece of busted up concrete is 20 years old!

Yeh - I thought it would be neat to have one. Never bothered get it though.

I still remember this as, if nothing else, a universally symbolic moment in human history.

My family was living in West Germany in 1983, at the height of the cold war. Reagan was deploying short range nuclear missiles (Pershing II missiles) in West Germany and the cold war was in the German news a lot.

Our German neighbors had become good friends. We sometimes went sightseeing with them on long car trips. They had family who lived in West Berlin, and suggested we visit them. There were three different highways you were allowed to drive on through East Germany to get to West Berlin. The East German border patrol agents took our passports at the border and went into a nearby building to presumable photocopy them. They made us wait for 15 minutes and then let us drive away on the highway. We had been used to autobahn speeds in West Germany, and the speed limit was 100km/h on the East German highway. That's around 60MPH. My dad made sure to drive 5 km/h under the speed limit, and lots of cars were passing us, but our German neighbors in the car with us were very afraid and kept asking him to drive slower. We passed numerous speed traps, and saw lots of West German Mercedes pulled over by the side of the road. Each time we would pass one, the Germans would urge my dad to slow down even more. I'd never seen them scared before. I think they thought if you got pulled over, you might end up in jail forever.

When we arrived at the border of West Berlin, the East Germans inspected our car very closely (a VW Vanagon) to make sure we hadn't picked anyone up while crossing through East Germany.

The family we were visiting had a house on a small lake. It was a small cottage-like house, but the land was beautiful and the water was right there. Down the center of the lake was a line of buoys, kind of like a pool lane line, that marked where the border with East Germany was. On the far shore was a concrete wall. There were a few pleasure boats hugging the West Berlin shore, but everyone stayed far away from the buoys.

Because the cottage was so small, we slept in a couple of tents in the yard. That was fun. The family we were visiting was really cool, and we really enjoyed staying with them. At night, in my sleeping bag, I heard occasional bursts of machine gun fire coming from behind the wall across the lake. Maybe they were checking their guns or something. I don't know.

We wanted to walk into East Berlin, and it was allowed. There were various rules, like you had to exchange a bunch of currency each day at a ridiculous exchange rate, and you weren't allowed to bring any of it back across the border. I think it was like $50 per person each day, which was $300 for my family. So we crossed through Checkpoint Charlie. It was all very serious there at the crossing. No smiles anywhere. East Berlin itself was nothing much. We went to some touristy place where they were doing changing of the guards. It was interesting because the East German soldiers were goose stepping as they marched. They looked just like Nazis.

We had all this money, but there was nothing we wanted to buy. We got some crappy food near the tourist place. We saw the ugly tv tower they were so proud of. As it was getting dark, we were looking for a place to get some dinner, and found a pub near the border, but when we walked into the place the conversation stopped, and nobody would look at us or wait on us, so we left. We ended up putting our pile of unspent money on the curb on a street corner a few blocks from Checkpoint Charlie before we came back over to the West again. Probably made some East German pretty happy. Getting back to the West wasn't so bad. We had nothing with us, and we were on foot. We had passports, and they only made us wait around 15 minutes before letting us back in the West. It was really nice to see the the American flag and be welcomed by a US soldier when we crossed back over.

The wall was completely covered with graffiti on the Western side, and perfectly clean on the Eastern side with a large no man's land area and barbed wire keeping you back away from it if you approached from the East. Always a few guard towers in sight.

Anyway, those were my memories of the Wall, and I was shocked when it came down 6 years later. I really thought it would be there forever, and I didn't believe it was really happening until a month or so had gone by and they hadn't clamped down again. 1989 was an amazing year. I saved the newspaper that came out that day. It's in a trunk in my living room.

I watched it happening on TV and could not believe it was really happening. Being German made it all the more surreal and poignant!

Cool post glatt. Thanks for sharing.

That is a great story Glatt, thanks for sharing! :)

I got to go through checkpoint charlie during my senior year of high school with a tour group. I was nervous.

I was glad when the Berlin Wall came down, but pissed that Reagan and his idiot followers kept claiming that it was they who toppled the Soviet Union and who brought down the wall. The wall came down during the Bush administration and Reagan had nothing to do with it. His saying, "Tear down that wall Mr. Gorbachev" was not the reason the wall came down.

It was pretty rough economically in Germany when the wall first came down. But they've recovered nicely since then.

:rolleyes: :eyebrow: :headshake

Where is the "bites tongue" smilie?

I realize some people are too dumb to know that the Soviet Union, like all communism, was already crumbling and falling on its own. Reagan tripling our national debt and spending a trillion dollars on star wars vapor-ware wasn't what made them fall. Reagan just happened to be the guy there when it fell. He tried to take credit for it even though he had nothing to do with it int he same way he tried to take credit for the release of the Iranian hostages which he also had NOTHING to do with.

:mock:

right back atcha pal :mock:

Bush was there when the wall fell.

Reagan was there when the Soviet Union collapsed.

Neither of them was responsible for either of those things.


Radar :mock: Classicman

Now that right there is funny. Read 'Guests of the Ayatollah,' by Mark Bowden. I don't think I ever heard that he claimed directly to have had anything to do with the release of the hostages, although there may have been plenty of propaganda about that he in someway was directly involved. But to be clear on the fact this one is clear, on January 20, 1981, Reagan was sworn into office and within minutes all of the hostages were released. I believe, as I think most do, there was indirect pressure. There is no clear evidence either way.

I hate to interrupt this pissing match, but I wanted to thank glatt for sharing his impressions of cold war Germany. Thanks glatt.:notworthy

Reagan had nothing to do with the negotiations with Iran to release the hostages, though later he did sell arms to Iran and had the CIA bring cocaine into America to raise money for the Contras.

Carter is responsible for the release of the hostages, and Iran was so pissed at him, they decided to release the hostages on Reagan's inauguration day as a final "fuck you" to Carter

Yes, that was nice. I haven't been back to Germany since the wall was still there. The last time I went to Germany was 1987. I wish I had gone during the World Cup though and wanted to go to the Love Parade so many times, but never got to.

Just the idea of scooting around Germany in a VW Bus is appealing. What I wouldn't give to have one of those babies in mint condition. Well I wouldn't give to much but it is a nice thought.

http://www.cartype.com/pics/297/full/vw_bus_draw_59.jpg

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squ...dow-vw-bus.png

Did you hear about the VW Van in mint condition that was stolen 35 years ago and just recovered?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/....vw/index.html

:driving:VW ~ Virtually Worthless.

People driving VWs, back in the day, were like people driving Priuses today, always in the way. :haha:

Doesn't Volkswagen own/manufacture Audi? Now those are great cars. I love the Audi A8, and I really love the Audi R8. I wish I could afford either of them.

I did hear that story. Crazy.

@Bruce. You crazy man?!?! My VW bug was never in the way, nor was it like a Pussyrius. :D

I did a complete pan up restoration of a second one in 1993 of a 78 Super Beetle. Great car, hauled ass.

Don't know about the Priuses, but it's true about the old VW's. Although on my parent's last jaunt to Europe, they bought a VW Synchro (that's a 4WD) Vanagon that had a retrofitted Porsche engine in it. That one was able to keep up on the autobahn.

Ok, maybe about the old buses but my bugs always scooted around nicely. We did own a VW Vanagon new in 1985 and loved it but as a fourbanger, like it's ancestors, pick up lacked. Heaven help you if you were going up a steep hill. :lol:

They were fine, unless you had 6 people in the bus and a bunch of luggage and you were going over the continental divide. Then you were going 45 on the highway. Usually, there would be a truck chugging up the hill too, and you could slip in behind it and blend in.

It is also a time to remember the leaders of the grass roots pro-democracy movements that were born and flourished at the time....leaders like Baerbel Bohley in East Germany, Lech Welesa and the solidarity movement in Poland, Vaclev Havel and the Czech intellectual movement and even that drunken Russian fool, Boris Yeltsun.

It was at great personal risk that they and their followers contributed to the fall of Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain.

One of my quick rules of life: never trust any government whose soldiers goose-step.

Mind you, one of my other rules is never trust any government at all, but it goes double for the goose steppers.


Yes, I remember watching the wall come down, one of the greatest, most amazing, feel-good events in history. And we got to watch it unfold practically live. Awesome.


Keep in mind, Volkswagon also own and make the Bugatti Veyron. 1,001 horsepower, max 407kph. No, you cannot afford one. The tyres alone cost over $20,000 for a set, and at top speed, will last around 15 minutes.

15 is enough, the gas tank is only big enough for 12 minutes... seriously.

I was on vacation with Pete's New Hampshire family including her very well read Navy Vet uncle. We drank a lot, talked a lot, and worried a bit because of the potentential for chaos if any of the East Block true believers decided it needed to stop. I don't know how much emphasis this event was given in schools. It was a spell-binding moment that lead to a completely different world which many cold warriors still can't get a handle on.

True, I guess that is kind of a safety feature. :right:

Now, as for the cost of refilling that gas tank ... :eek:

Some people think Obama should have been there representing us instead of a subordinate. Guess it wasn't important enough.

Link

I hadn't looked at it as a lost opportunity . . . interesting perspective.

And some don't. I'd rather him here, taking care of business, than running to Europe for a party.

Weren't you in on the Bitching Committee when Obama, or Pelosi, or Hillary, or Obama's family...or someone, flew somewhere once, classic?

"How much did THAT cost?" Remember that? :blah:

Personally I don't give a shit. I said some people - I found the perspective of a lost opportunity interesting though.

Now run along and go kill a hobo.

I understand that you were pointing that out, but I had to recall the extreme outrage that was expressed back in the beginning when he flew somewhere.

Face it, the man is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

And that you posted half a cellar page of an article, leads me to believe you felt the criticism had some merit. Well, that, and the "guess it wasn't important enough" comment.

The partisan inconsistency that you fail to recognize is so very tiresome. You and merc (and hey, this isn't about who either of you are, I like you both...well enough) ;) fairly barf it all over the politics threads. I could turn my head and not read it, but that's a little too "typical american" even for me.

ps the coppers are on to me, no hobo killin' 'til the smoke clears. gotta lay low.

I really hadn't thought of it as such until I read the articles. I've been a lot distracted lately. After reflection, the only part which was of interest to me or worthy of discussion was the lost opportunity discussion.
After all this time the only response to that was yours, so I guess I was wrong in that as well. Oh well can't bat a 1000 and all that.


Welcome to actually BEING president, Mr. Obama.