China is NOT our pal
 

In recent days China has been upset over US sales of arms to Taiwan. Taiwan is only being prudent given their close location to expansionist communist China. China has severely restricted use of the Internet. No freedom of speech for mainland Chinese. Now China seeks to prevent Obama from meeting with the Dali Lama.

As a trading partner, China is falling down in more way than one. All is for the Chinese, and Western partners are getting table scraps. Obama told senators from his Democratic Party on Wednesday it was important to address currency rates with trading partners such as China to ensure U.S. goods were not facing a disadvantage by being artificially inflated.

You obviously don't understand the difficulties of the Chinese. They are poor and we are rich. They are good and we are white devils. Dealt with it.

They recently executed a British citizen for drug smuggling, despite the fact that he was patently not sane and alll the evidence pointed to his having been used as an unwitting mule. They refused to have him examined by a psychiatrist and claimed no evidence for his mental health problems had been given to them (despite refusing to accept his medical history). He was sentenced to be shot after a 30 minute hearing. They didn't inform him of his death sentence. They eventually alllowed his cousins to visit him the day before his execution and they were the ones that informed him. He was given no psychiatric care during his incaceration and his mental state, by all accounts, was such that he had no real grip on reality. It is doubtful he truly understood even when told, what was happening to him.

British attempts at engaging with them over the issue were rebuffed again and again. British diplomatic efforts to at least have him psychiatricallly assessed were likewise rebuffed. Then after the executed him, they said they did not apppreciate britain commenting on or interfering in their justice process. And then they said they hoped this wouldnt affect our diplomatic relationship.

China does whatever it wants, whenever it wants to do it. It couldn;t give a flying fuck about what any other country thinks.

as a side note: it is apparently a commonly held notion in China (even amongst the archeological community until very recently) that they are not descended from the same line of humans as everyone else. They, it is believed, did not descend from African modern man, but from an entirely separate line originating elsehwhere and evolving separately and independantly. They literally believe they are a different sub species of man from the rest of us.

It's bollocks, as it happens. But it wasn't until gene mapping that this was able to be proved, and the new evidence is apparently still not accepted by some.

Hmm

*chuckles*

Does that 'Hmm' mean you disagree? You agree? Or just that you've read what I posted?

I thought it was rather poignant and absolutely timely in many ways. Multilayered and more.

Ah right. Ok. *smiles*

I think China is going to be interesting to watch over the next decade or so. We often talk in the west of Arab culture as being fundementally at odds with western culture; but few cultures are as 'alien' to ours as that of China.

Maybe you meant this as a joke. China is the third largest ecnomy in the world. Given its high population, it only stands to reason that one day they will be the first largest economy in the world. What then? How ironic that we sent thousands to be killed in Korea and Vietnam in large part because Chinese communist backing of these wars. Now we go down to Walmart and buy shoddy goods and even dangerous ones made by our buddy China.

As Cato might say if he were alive today China delenda est .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multire..._modern_humans

Blah, nationalism and racism.

Oh no, I assure you, lookout is one racist son of a bitch. He hates white people.

I lurv you clodfobble.

Then after China uses/buys and cultivates all of Africa's resources a Walmart is built so the people there can buy shoddy dangerous toxic goods from China too.

fer fucks ache - they already own us. Just wait till they raise the interest rate.

Yeah, I always figured Lookout was up to no good. :headshake

I fonly we'd been cautioned to be more attentive, in the future we'll look back and see the clues were there.

Paybacks, are a bitch.

Outside of the astounding human rights violations, it (China) shouldn't care. :( I mean, was there a time when everything was kosher, and we thought it was a good time to get in bed with them?
Good Move.

I mean, whose bright idea was it to borrow a ton of money from a country that organ farms with wild abandon? You know- the country that has been caught repeatedly and intentionally poisoning the rest of the world? That one?

If this were a Marvel Comic it would like quite differently, and probably more closer to the truth than the government, media, etc. would try to portray.

I like the Chinese in general. In fact, it's their citizens I worry about. It is getting sick and sad.

If our inflation gets bad enough, the debt they are holding will be worthless.

. . . and so will our money. How is that any good?

Because we'll get raises.

Will we get wheelbarrows with those raises? :eyebrow:

Inflation. Dollar devaluation. Economics takes revenge for money games in so many different ways.

But in every case, the Chinese are worried. They thought they were being so helpful by financing American government bonds. Financing "Mission Accomplished". Only recently has the Chinese government realized the scope of "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". Whereas in 2003 it was considered an advantage to both parties. Now neither party wants to be in this relationship.

The bills for "Mission Accomplished" are just beginning to appear. Only the first of those bonds "because deficit don't matter" are coming due. The costs for "Mission Accomplished" will get worse. Another Deja Vue Nam. Money spent by Nixon in 1968 and 1970 resulted in the massive recession that Carter confronted in 1975 and 1979.

What will we do to pay back that money? In the 1970s, the nickel became worth a penny. Yes, others lost money because they held so much American debt. AND the American standard of living went down massively. Stagflation finally meant 20% interest rates. Today's equivalent would be credit cards with 40% interest rates.

So yes, the Chinese are not happy. China has discovered how irresponsible America was throughout the 2000s. China, like everyone else, discovered Enron accounting was massive, licentious, and perverse. And virtually unknown until the market crashed.

China will do everything possible to get out from under the dollar – which is why China and so many other nations want to remove the dollar as the international trading standard. An honest American could not blame them. As Obama said when he took office, we will be paying for this for the next ten years. "Cheney proved that deficits do matter."

China is SO not my pal, to wit and viz:

1) China borrowed $50 from me "until payday." Never paid it back despite repeated promises.

2) China asked to "use the phone for a local call" Called a 900 # and stuck me with a $250. phone bill and a suspicious wad of tissues in the planter.

3) China borrowed my nice sweater and offered to clean it after vomiting all over the front, then shrank it after a hot wash and high heat dry.

4) China felt up my wife when it got drunk at my kid's 5th birthday party.

5) China told my best friend (falsely) that I was the one who pissed on the coals at the barbeque.

6) China has been stealing my newspaper every Sunday morning for the past several months and told me it was actually Estonia that was doing it.

7) China took the keys to my car when I was in the basement working and went out for a 5 hour joyride and brought the car back with an empty tank and a dent in the rear passenger door.

No, China is certainly not my pal.

China: My word is your bond. American bonds that is.

China knew exactly what they were doing. It was a no lose. They own us now.

Sssshhhhhh... the neo-cons are listening.

What exactly did the US think was going to happen when it shipped all our manufacturing and intellectual property over there? After the first, oh let's say dozen instances of Chinese companies sending knock offs into the market of proprietary technology don't you think that would have been enough warning to US companies of what kind of game China is playing?

Some of, (a lot of?) the CEOs of the so called US companies that operate in China make upwards of $25,000 per hour. They are fine and will be regardless of what happens to you and I and China's ownership of the US.

Exactly, unlike the robber barrons of years ago who didn't give a shit about just employees or customers, these asshats don't give a shit about the country, or it's future. Me, me, me, me.... :mad:

But you know what? It's easy to point the finger at these bastards, but they didn't do it alone. Yes, I'm looking at you, walmart shoppers.

It's not just walmart, comrade Bruce. My local mom and pop hardware store (true value--there's a page out of the neocon book of names) has been selling chinese made crap for the past ten years. dewalt, rockwell, vermont american, everything is made in china. I'd buy made in USA if it were available.

And after NAFTA, a pair of carhartts made in usa might actually have been made in mexico. it's the same as the usda organic label, it now has a legal definition, which may be good, but if that definition allows all kinds of untoward shit, then what good is it?

I'm not a Walmart lover, but as long as a corporation is allowed the benefits of being a US corporation then I think all their manufacturing should be done in one of the 50 states. Otherwise, they are a Chinese (or Indian, or Yugoslavian, etc) corporation with an American board and an American sounding name.

/soapbox

It’s called a free market. China is getting businesses that it deserves. Recently talked to a chemist whose company when out of business. They knew what China was doing to make the chemical better. They just could not figure out how the Chinese were doing it.

Another has Porcelain statues made in China. Quality is better than what they were buying in the states.

Many American companies call engineering an expense. Therefore it is cheaper to let the Chinese do designs. What their business school training forgets to tell them - he who designs the product is then also discovering and accidently finding many new innovative solutions. Solutions that never appear on the spread sheet. Solutions that mean the Chinese designer today manufactures the products - and tomorrow own the business.

The magic word - innovation. What never gets discussed when business school graduates measure everything only in terms of costs.

Even when the stuff is designed in the US, it may well be assembled in China. My i-pod: designed in California; assembled in China.

You'd be hard pressed to find an Made in America label in many stores.

Walmart is just blatant about it.

Even luxury and high end brands like Dana points out are half made in China.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...made_in_china/



Giorgio Bonacarso: Today, many of these brands will do some part of the operation here in China, and they will finish the shoes in Italy to be allowed to still put "Made in Italy," even if it is not made in Italy.


Take the Risen Shoe factory in the southern city of Dongguan. Chinese workers shape and stitch coral pink sandals that'll go for $250 this summer at Bloomingdales. That's double each worker's weekly income.

Dorothy Goh helps manage in this workshop.

Dorothy Goh: These shoes are high-end brands. This shows that China's factories are capable of making high-end shoes.

But Bonacarso says 9 out of 10 of the top European brands now make their shoes in China -- just very quietly.

Consultant Paul French explains why.

French: There might be a backlash, where people say, "Well, hang on a minute. We know that your heritage is luxurious. You started in the backstreets of Paris or Milan or wherever. But now you're just producing out of factories in China." And if people start to question that, then they feel they could have a problem. So it's better just not to talk about it.


Facing declining sales, many makers of luxury brands have moved production to China to cut costs. Still, you may not find 'Made in China' on their products. Scott Tong explains why.

Which is why sites like this are growing in popularity.

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I saw those too.

One year working at a department store ( not walmart!)
a customer was piqued she could not find anything made in America. I took her to the Columbia Sportswear. Portland's own.

I think they are still made here. I could be wrong.

I dealt with that when I was selling Men's Shoes in a Department store. I pointed them to the Dexters.

This was at least 10 years ago, so who knows now.

Got this email today.

From what I've heard, just because it says its made in the US doesn't actually mean it is. I think New Balance shoes does something like that to an extent.

Michelin developed the radial tire in 1948. To keep a superior product out of America, Congress (urged by anti-innovation Firestone, Uniroyal, Goodrich, et al) put up massive tariffs on radials.

Goodyear imported completed radial tires from Michelin, glued a Goodyear tread on, and became the first American radial tire in 1975. Whereas crap tires got 10,000 miles, Michelins radials did 40,000 miles.

Buy American is how one puts Americans out of work. Patriots only believe in the free market - buy the best. Why were all American tire companies (except Goodyear) driven to extinction? America had 'buy American' laws that simply put American tire employees out of work. That simply encouraged what always destroys jobs - stifled innovation.

Had Americans stopped buying GM cars 20 years ago. Had we all bought Honda and Toyota (cars chock full of American innovations), then GM would be a productive company today. But too many so hated the American worker as to stupidly buy American - resulting in the massive job losses that must always happen.

How to keep Americans employed. Always buy the best. Then the only reason for job losses - management that stifled innovation in the name of profits - is quickly removed. Buy American only protects the problem; is not a solution.

How to increase American foreign oil imports by 10 or 16%? Buy discount gasoline at Sheets, Wawa, Hess, Merit, etc. Not only do you spend more money per mile. You also increase foreign imports by not using superior American technologies - such as additives that mean gasoline costs you less money. Always buy the best. Buy American is just as silly as buying only on lower price.

Buy, Buy American Pie by the Capitol Steps

I guess she just figured it was typical Wal-Mart ambiance. :greenface



Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/f...#ixzz0f9BsPWUA

He is obviously a Walmart hater and thinks that Walmart is evil.

He's obviously a real American and a true patriot.

I am not sure that person really exists.

tw

Oh.

From here (where else?) http://www.theonion.com/content/news...13_000_of_what

Which China is not our pal? Appreciate what has changed. This can only be discussed without extremist rhetoric that so fills so many Cellar discussions. And by realizing there is no one China.

The China so involved with aggravating the silly Spy Plane incident or that obstructed travel of an American survey (spy) ship is not the same China that makes international decisions. And not the same China that is responsible for shoddy construction and resulting denials in Sichuan province. China is a large country. (Because GM wants to screw consumers means the US government also wants to screw consumers? That is the conclusion when people are told what to think by nationalist extremists rather than learning for themselves.)

But appreciate what has happened recently in China. A new administration took power. China may now have its own version of George Jr in power. And China is causing new concern to nations on about half of its borders.

Conflicts are restarting in the Parcel and Pratley Islands. What was thought to be a settled dispute between Japan and China on a shared natural gas field is now hot again. Vietnam fisherman are being arrested and held because China is declaring ownership of the oceans virtually down to Malaysia and Philippines. And then Taiwan is ripe for confrontation now that America's military strength has been so diminished as to (maybe) no longer sail aircraft carriers through the Taiwan Straits.

Due to an increased in wealth and since America now appears toothless due to fiasco in Iraq, a virtual surrender in Afghanistan, and now refighting Afghanistan all over again - a new government in China now eyes domination of the western Pacific. This sector of China has told the US that we can have the eastern Pacific and they will take care of the Western Pacific. Even Australia and Japan are reconsidering their political relations with America due to this new Chinese government attitude.

It is no accident that China snubbed Obama at the Copenhagen conference. Many in the world are saying America is only good for one more Iraq war. And then will begin a decline just like the UK.

From what they see, that is a valid conclusion. A conclusion that would result in serious and unnecessary confrontations. The problem is, those 'Cheney like', nationalist type Chinese appear to dominate new government. With contempt for America because of the foolessness and wasteful squandering America has demonstrated and performed from 2000 through 2008.

As The Economist noted on 6 Feb 2010: Especially true since America has squandered so much military and economic power since 2000. Even subverted many of its trump cards - science. First indicator of that self imposed damage. The American economy has suffered its first decade without growth in 70 years. America has become so dependent on Chinese production. Many Chinese simply see same - but in larger percentages.

Appreciate after so much accomplished in so little time, Chinese wacko extremists will entertain their egos for the same reasons American extremists so love torture.

Again from The Economist: Trouble can be averted if moderates / centrists / people who do not preach political agendas and egos on both sides are working together. Extremists on both sides will hype propaganda to subvert a solution. Ie "all Chinese are evil" is an attitude easily promoted by Limbaugh to the ignorant - just like he did with Saddam's WMDs.

What will be the first indication that trouble is pre-empted? Russia (in cooperation with France and US) has laid down a gauntlet – a world challenge. How the world deals with Iran - in particular whether China joins the rest of the world in a solution - may predetermine whether this new Chinese administration is another George Jr / Cheney danger to the world. Or whether the world will see a responsible (not extremist and nationalistic like Israel’s Likud) China.

I hope they don't ask for their money back. ..soon, if ever.

They own us, financially....

Part of the problem is that China is deliberately undervaluing the yuan:

http://www.expressbuzz.com/finance/s...u29kcfsoAfeg==

That isn't their problem - it's ours.

It has become a problem for both. With nationalism taking hold in the Chinese communist party (in the tradition of Cheney), negotiation and solutions becoming difficult, then an undervalued yen and related geopolitical pressures also become a problem for other regional nations.

That's why everything is made in China

15 Facts About China That Will Blow Your Mind

1. By 2025, China will build TEN New York-sized cities.
2. By 2030, China will add more new city-dwellers than the entire U.S. population.
3. China already consumes twice as much steel as the U.S., Europe and Japan combined.
4. If the Chinese, one day, use as much oil per person as Americans, then the world will need seven more Saudi Arabias to meet their demand.
5. There are already more Christians in China than Italy, and China is on track to become the largest center of Christianity in the world.
6. Chinese are far more likely to believe in evolution than Americans.
7. Chinese internet users are five times as likely to have blogs as Americans.
8. China has 150 percent more soldiers than America does -- plus a high tech 'Kill Weapon' the U.S. can't deal with.
9. China still hasn't rid itself of Europe's medieval plague.
10. Forty percent of Chinese small businesses went bust or almost went bust during the world financial crisis.
11. China executes three times as many people as the rest of the world COMBINED -- and uses mobile execution vans for efficiency.
12. China averages 274 protests PER DAY.
13. When you buy Chinese stocks, you are basically financing the Chinese government. Eight of Shanghai's top ten stocks are state-controlled arms of the government.
14. Fifty percent of counterfeit goods come from China.
15. The majority of Chinese drink polluted water.

I resent you using the word China in a thread about China.

It isn't fair to China when you talk about China in a thread about China. I'm offended.

Anything from the onion belongs in the humor thread.