Its not just the Catholics anymore
 

The Mormon Church has joined the fray in the abuse of innocent children. This time it is Boy Scouts. A Scout Master confessed that he had abused at least 17 scouts. Mormon officialdom allowed this man to continue to lead scout troops even after his wrong-doing came to light. :mad:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/09/26265.htm

BAD Thread title. It never was just the Catholics. :mad:

It's not just the (insert wacked-out religion here) anymore.

It WAS just the Catholics where the top dogs were covering it up at such a level that they were basically sanctifying it, which has been the point all along. NO ONE thinks only Catholics are child molestors.

edit: church cover-ups that people KNEW about. This is a good thing, the exposure of other churches...church leaders should take heed, no matter the church. Touch one kid inappropriately...prosecute. It's easy to do. Just switch out some of the letters in "persecute."

Well, scuse me. I do the best I can with my befuddled tiny mind. ;)

We forgive you. Say 10 Hail Marys and 5 Our Fathers.

It wasn't that I thought you meant that Sam - It was more a case of the way it could be read.



Never said that, Shaw. Grrrrrrrr...

The implication I got from ...
The (insert religion of choice) have never been the only ones. They all have and they all probably still do to some degree. Just like large companies/corporations do with other things or tobacco companies did/do with the cancer info.

And Sam's point, along with others', has been that the church leaders, the big kahunas, covered it up.

Child molestation in religion and smoking risks in corporations? Are you serious?

Granted, I'd praise the Holy Tobacco before I'd praise the crap I was taught as a kid...but equating one's beloved church to big corp is REALLY a stretch.

Are you, then, saying the Catholic Church is really just a great big corporation?

And MY fuckin point is that is isn't and
NEVER HAS BEEN JUST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Mmmkay?

yes, in the context of what I am saying

and yes - churches are more like tax free-corps

Go pray in your corporation then. I'm sure that's what Jebus envisioned.

Methinks he doth protest too much, hmmmmmmmmmm?

fuckity fuck fuck fuckity fucky fuck?...religion makes you PEACEFUL, cause it's all about the lovin' of the fellow man and all.

Peace out, man.

Did you miss my post, honey bumpkin? :rolleyes:

Nope got it right here -
:eyebrow:

I know I'm missing something . . . ???

Oh gawd I forgot why I don't converse with you on such topics.

IT WAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WE WERE ALL HEARING ABOUT WHEN WE WERE INCENSED THAT THE BIG FUCKING FUCKERS WERE COVERING IT UP AND NOW WE'RE HEARING ABOUT OTHER CHURCHES COVERING UP AND THIS IS A GOOD THING FOR THE PRIESTLY DUDES AND NO ONE THINKS ITS JUST tHE CATHOLICS WHO ARE PEDOPHILES...

for fuck's sake. quit picking my posts apart into shreds...if you read the whole thing, as conversation (shut the fuck up before you say it, mercface) you MIGHT see my point.

Sheesh. I don't give a fuck about your stupid church...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkay? I don't care if you praise lightposts...if your leaders think it's OK to cover up crime I'm going to comment on that.

Catholics are so...fearful. :worried:

Not just the Catholics that were abusers; and not just the Catholics who covered this up. EVERYONE covered this up; because NO ONE talked openly about it prior to the late 70s.

What people are not understanding is that these cases that are coming to light in the Catholic Church are old; in many cases far too old to prosecute--30, 40, 50 year old some of them. I can assure you, that in that time period, if Joe Baptist or whoever was abused, and reported it, their Baptist leaders (or whoever) covered it up too. Or, they moved their pastors around, or sent them to therapy until they were "cured" and put them back into circulation.

Yes, it was wrong, but in hindsight, we are trying to wrestle with this problem with a certain amount of openness and understanding that did not exist at the time.

The church janitor was mopping behind the confessionals, when a preist rushed out and said to him "I have to pee real bad. Sit in the booth while I'm gone". The janitor sits in the confessional, and a woman comes in the other side, sits down, and says "father, forgive me, for I have sinned. I'm married and had sex with another man". The janitor told the woman "say an 'Our Father'". The woman said "but it was bad, father, it was with a black man". The janitor told her to "say an 'Our Father' and a 'Hail Mary'". The woman said " but father, it was ORAL sex". The janitor was at a loss, he didn't know what to give beyond an 'Our Father' and 'Hail Mary'. He peeked out the back of the confessional, hoping the preist was returning, but all he saw was an altar boy. He called the altar boy over and asked "what does father usually give for oral sex?" "A soda and a candy bar" said the altar boy.

Old, but applicable and still funny.:)

Anyone whose power is based on unsubstantiated non-facts (faith) gets defensive when questioned.

Plus, if bad thoughts ever crossed your mind you would forever writhe in hellfire. I was fearful once too.

Defending the Catholic church based on "It's not just us" Is a little like defending alcohol abuse as an acceptable lifestyle because it's not just drunk drivers who kill people.

If only catholics would put as much frigging effort into getting their house in order as they do defending it, there'd be a lot less to defend.

You know why you don't hear of atheists being up on child abuse charges? because you can't persuade a bunch of parents to trust their precious children to pedophiles, and persuade the children to keep quiet about it without that whole "god moves in mysterious ways, do not question, have faith" control shit.

Because it's not as controversal when it isn't hypocritical? :p:

Why do you think people don't understand many of the cases in the news are 'old'? And what difference does that make? Is there evidence of a change of tactic? I don't think so - I mean, Ratzinger is wearing a silly hat and not an orange jumpsuit RFN isn't he?
So why assume the child raping he personally was A-OK with has stopped? Maybe they just got better at hiding it. I mean, keeping detailed records of your crimes isn't all the bright...

The letters written back and forth suggest to me there was a certain amount of openness, just not with law enforcement - which suggests a certain level of understanding.

You are arguing a point that I never made. Why do you keep bringing it up? It was ALWAYS that it was never just the Catholic Church who covered shit up. . .

Bold mine.
I disagreed and now YOU are the one bent outta shape.
This appears to be a simple misunderstanding, but your rigidity in this case escalated the situation.

I have no problem with you hating the Catholic Church. You have made that abundantly clear.
And your reply...
I was trying to steer the discussion to that which I was referring to since there was obviously something awry.
I have serious issues with the Catholic Church - I have for years. I haven't donated to them.
I do not nor have I ever condoned their actions in this matter. I have my own beliefs, thank you.

Anyone who molests a child should rot in a cell or much worse. Those who covered up for them should also be penalized just like one who is an accomplice in other crimes.

Hahahahahaaa...

I give up. You are impossible to discuss things with. I am not bent out of shape...it's just that talking to you is like talking to a robot, it's frustrating.

You know what I meant. I was even being a little giving towards the Catholic's viewpoint...saying it's good that other churches are getting busted...that no one thinks Catholics are the only molesters.

And really, what does it matter if someone misreads or misconstrues Sam's thread title? YOU know your church is good. YOU have faith. Other's misconceptions shouldn't bother you. Doesn't your religion give you that warm fuzzy feeling?

Now, go pick apart someone ELSE's posts and try to turn THEM around. Just make sure you're picking apart all the right (wrong) people. Your god won't protect your popularity.

Or, keep spinning in circles.

Now, what WAS that joke in the other thread? You still haven't told me which joke you thought it was. I'm SOOOO curious. ;)

My point was that our understanding of the problem and treatment has progressed. Psychologists used to think pedophiles could be cured, and in that light, the actions taken 40 years ago were perhaps more reasonable by the standards of the day. Acceptable? No. Understandable? perhaps.

I believe that religious institutions in general have made great strides over the past 10 years in opening up this issue before their congregations, reaching out to the injured, and putting procedures in place to deal with grievances. Yes, it should have been done sooner, and no, it doesn't mitigate the damage that has already been done, but some progress has been made.

Uh, yeh. Ok. I'll let my last post stand - I do not see the circle.
If someone else would like to let me know where I am wrong or was inaccurate, please do.

This type of interaction, especially with someone I like, is growing tiresome. I cannot correct a problem if I don't understand it.

I tried to explain it to you. You don't listen.

I could try bulletted lists, footnotes...it doesn't matter. You won't listen to me. You get your head caught on some feeling that I'm dissing you and that's all you see.

I'm done trying, man. I really am. My feelings aren't yours to hurt anymore. This pretending you think I'm great just the way I am, as my buddy, then fucking with me at every turn, while others remain unscathed, is ending. Don't say I'm being paranoid, or throwing any card. It's the way it is, it's the way you are, and I'm done.

I guess its me then. not that it matters, but I'm sorry.

Who is defending the Catholic Church? Where has ANYONE here done that?

Agreed.

I take responsibility for my part in it.

I'm sarcastic. You know that. But I do have points, and feelings, and everything I say shouldn't be completely discounted because of my, shall we say, style.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm just really really tired, just plain wrung out.

I'm sorry too.

I've been rereading this and I think I got it, but I'm skeered to try again.
= I think you and I were arguing two different points.

ETA - anyway - Fuck the Boy Scouts & the Mormons and and and!

Fucking the boy scouts kinda goes against our whole "we don't like pedophiles" stance.

:lol:

It's all good. I'm done with religion for a bit.

see what happpens when I try sarcasm - ba duh :facepalm:

Good Lord this thread is a train wreck. I had a great experience in the Boy Scouts, made some life-long friends and learned a lot. That said I would encourage my future kid(s) to participate but I'd make sure to be personally involved so as to lessen the chances of some sicko taking advantage.

That seems like a good plan with anything that involves your children these days.

The quality of Boy Scout groups varies widely, and it has everything to do with the particular scoutmaster. I've heard mostly good stories*, but you do get some douchebags in the mix just like with every other institution. No firsthand stories of pedophilia, mind you, but I did hear a firsthand account of rampant anti-Semitism in one particular group. As a general rule, the douchy groups tend to get weeded out, because there is no larger hierarchy moving Scoutmasters around to different troops, and there are always several troops in any given area for parents to choose from.

*Little known fact: every single person I have ever dated has been either an Eagle Scout, or a son of clergy. Mr. Clod was the only one who was both. :)

:) Clod, there are now a hundred men googling "how to become an eagle scout" you know, just in case...

since you made it public ... 99.

Well then you're just a chicken scout! ;)

It was never intentional. I'd meet a guy, and silently be thinking to myself, "Okay, there's no way in hell this one is an Eagle Scout, and I know for a fact that his father couldn't be a pastor..." And then a few weeks into the relationship, he'd casually mention that his father was actually a rabbi.

To paraphrase Aldous Huxley, "of all the sexual perversions, celibacy is the most unnatural."

It could be worse. Mrs.Nutkin and I have a friend who is unaware that he is gay. (we and nearly everyone who knows him, thinks this.)

His last two or three (lost track) girlfriends have dated him on the rebound of having their husbands leave them for another man...

Ouch, I know that guy.

btw-Welcome back HLJ!

Thanks Griff.

I hope you weren't making a connection.