Self Policing Militia Summons
 

The problem as I see it:

It is nearly impossible at this point to discuss anything political or current event related without Redux, classicman and TheMercenary squabbling and spamming that thread up with their unending partisan BULLSHIT.

Sorry, to two if you about this, I like you individually, and regret the need for doing this thread this way. I did try to affect change in general terms, but that changed nothing, and you 3 seem unable to stop.

I see 2 possible solutions. (well 3 if you include telling me to stfu and to continue as is)

1. A temporary ban on the three of them for one month if they do not immediately cease hostilities. Follow that with a 'parole period' in which they can redeem themselves.

2. Some type of VB electric dog collar that keeps them out of the main board, and limits them to their own forum where they can wage war upon each other without wrecking the adult's discussion.


I'll probably catch hell for this. (I'm sure spexnemesisxvet will have a divergent opinion) I'm sure I'll be hurting some feelings and pride, and again....sorry. But this is the cellar, and I love it. Considering all that, I think it's worth the short term damage this will cause. My vote is just that. one vote. one opinion. You may disagree. You may have another idea of how to fix what's wrong even if you DO agree with me.


OK... pass me the blindfold.

Yeah, I'm the only one with a divergent opinion around here. :eyebrow:

no, you're just the only one SURE to have an opinion that diverges from mine.

I don't know what the solution is, but I'd lump spex in as part of the problem too. It's the 4 of them. I wish they would all stop posting anything related to current events/politics.

Maybe if all 4 could address the issue instead of one another. Or get a instant messenger then they could sit and insult each other all night and day without the rest of the cellar being bored to tears.

I like the idea of the electronic collar and or the spank ray. I have to agree about the need for things to be done to encourage civility and respectful discussion. The three you mentioned may be the worst offenders, I don't really know, I don't keep track. I have found them at times to be over the top and at other times to be friendly.

Warnings, parole, bans? Maybe this should have been a poll, a jury of their peers?

There is this 'report post' button. It would be interesting to see what happens if everyone began using it.

I agree SN.

This isn't about liking them. I like them well enough but the absence of being able to read an engaging discussion or even participating is nil.

The way I deal with it:
1) I never go in the politics forum.
2) When reviewing new posts in teh Cellar if'n it's in politics I don't open the thread however enticing the topic may seem to me personally.
2) Quite early on I notice when a thread starts to drift towards political and I ignore it (no button, just remember that it's dull) until it goes away.

That being said, I like the idea of a spankray, but only if it's on webcam ;).

I agree with Limey above. Of course, that means that none of the rest of us can have a reasonable political discussion with each other . . . if there even is such a thing.

there used to be. ask griff

I hate the word association thread. I can't ignore it, so might we get rid of it also?

I like the politics and current events forums, in fact they are what brought me here initially, so I don't want to see them go away but I also hate the fact that they have become a virtual wasteland devoid of reason.

I miss the old atmosphere in those forums. The Cellar is ever evolving so I get that it can't stay the same but the fact of the matter is while we used to get heated in our disagreements it generally wasn't a personal shitslinging fest with perpetual cut and paste posts. While I can't think of a single time Happy Monkey (just an example) or I started on the same side of a political discussion I know my own opinions have been influenced by information he has brought to my attention. I don't know that those forums have actually ever caused any of us to shift 180 degrees but we certainly each have our own slant on things that can help others get a more complete picture of the issues. I am quite certain that dana is still a flaming commie pinko, but by discussing political and social issues with someone like me she can at least say she knows not all conservatives eat puppies for breakfast and put the heads of the poor on pikes just for fun.

OK, I may have gotten a little off track there, but I guess what I'm saying is I'm willing to try anything* if it will help bring some civility back to the community and bring more participants back to the politics and current event forums.

*I was surprised to find that at least a couple dwellars see me as one of the problem kids, so if that is the general consensus then I will willingly go along with whatever the community feels is best for, er... the community.

One thread versus any current event subject that ever comes up in multiple forums with the constant arguments carried over to other forum/threads.

Redux has said he doesn't care how this affects the community, Classicman condemns the behavior and then keeps right on doing it.

Sucks.

I was always fond of the Puppy Solution.

That worked on people with Rage issues, but I don't really see that as an effective option for posters who really don't care what anyone else thinks.

I was always fond of the Human Centipede Solution.

??? No Biscuit???
Que?

:redcard::vomitblu::vomit:
Flint, you're just wrong.

She's talking about always changing the subject to dogs to drive a particular poster away.

Do you disagree with what I've said here, Shawnee?

I agree that things get ugly in the politics threads. I admit that I have been an offender.

That's what politics do to people. We've had some heated discussions about religion too.

I don't know, it seems that these things work themselves out, eventually. In defense of Redux, I've seen (and been part of) a lot of the crap before he even came on the scene. I've heard him actually make some decent points, responding in kind only when the popcorn starts.

Then what is the common denominator?

*shrugs* I don't think it matters, really. I certainly have my opinions on coming in and reading 8 posts in a row of merc eating popcorn, saying demoncrat whores, shill, fail...whatever. Does that mean anything? No. Should it? No.

Impose time-outs? Nah. I don't think that's any kind of solution.

Not getting attention for it would seem a better solution than getting negative attention for it, especially if the big purpose is to get a rise and watch the fun, and I don't rule that out.

Having said that, I really hate word association! I have to stay out because I get so riled.

Wiled.

Wild.

Child.

Kid.

Goat.

:lol:

Here's an idea, Jim. You're well respected here. When someone posts a dismissive or insulting post, tell them to stop. Remember how obedient Classic was, when you told him to stop kicking the retarded kid? I'll bet Merc will listen to you, too. I don't want to sound like "they started it", but I will bet you that if you get merc and classic to stop, redux and I will have no reason to be asshats.

I'm sure the hostility expressed by some does keep people from posting in the Politics forum. People have their viewpoints and, however illogical we may think they are, they are theirs.

What I hate is the holier than thou attitude of a certain someone who tends to berate those who disagree with him/her. I can respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. We, however, are racist, homophobic, gun-loving tea-baggers for our views.

Why can't we have a lively discussion...agree to disagree and not resort to name calling.

Oh, and I say violators are sent to Pakistan with a pistol, sword and night vision equipment and made to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. :D

Yep. Us demoncratic shill whore martyr bleeding heart bums know how that feels. :p:

Why don't you think it should mean anything? I think it means something... It's a bullshit way to act, completely selfish and rude. Typical of most of the internet which is why people come/stay here instead.
It seems like so much resentment has built up at this point, like someone else said, it's not even about the issues being discussed anymore. But as soon as people try to discuss an issue, the same fight starts among the same people for page after page...

this is a job for the moderators to handle. we haz moderators, don't we?

if the actions of a few are ruining it for the rest of us, the mods have the right and duty to take action in whatever way they see fit, including deletions, suspensions, etc.

I meant that how I feel about it doesn't really mean anything, to anyone but me. I've joined right in, I know. I have fire-temper, and it pisses me right off. I don't see the good "underneath" like so many have professed...so my feelings toward that person are irrelevant to that person's dealings with other persons here; obviously there is a side I've never seen.

I have resentment...big time. That is my problem to deal with. I've been going along thinking those things have been sanctioned in certain cases, and maybe I haven't been looking at the big picture.

So what you're saying is true: it's not so much that these things can't be ignored, it's that no one can have a discussion anymore.

Another forum I frequent has moderators dimming out posts that are gratuitously insulting, with the explanation DBAJ (Don't Be A Jerk). Although we don't have the technology here, maybe once the name calling starts mods should delete posts and give DBAJ as a reason?
But then the mods really shouldn't have to do that, should they?

@ cloud's last post

That's why I made this thread... so we could ALL talk about it, and ask the admin to act if that's the consensus.

Just as another data point -- I used to post in current events and politics from time to time, but don't anymore. There used to be moments of actual useful information. Now it's all canned propaganda. And meanness.

The mods who we all know and love typically stay out of most things. They don't stomp in with the banhammer very often because they expect that most dwellars are adults and will police themselves. From what I understand it was like that long before I got here and I don't expect that to change. This is a self-policing community so LJ's call to arms seems reasonable.

Now the question is whether this thread will just be a continuation of the "I'll stop throwing my shit at that asshole if he quits being a cuntface" behavior we see in other threads.

Gonorrhea-dripping cuntface, as it were...

I don't see the necessity. All we have now is another divisive thread. The mods should talk among themselves and decide--that's their job.

*snort*

You see this thread as divisive? I guess it is by definition... but it seems like most of the people posting in this thread at least agree that the issue exists. Unifying in that respect.

Damn you Lookout! You do too eat puppies!

I wouldn;t say I avoid the politics forum entirely. Mainly, I go by the 'new posts' search and don't really look at which forum they're in. That said, recently I have found myself clicking links and seeing a page of to'n'fro I just don't bother reading it, and go find something else instead.

I'm not sure what the answer is really. I'm not even entirely sure what the problem is. I mean, like Lookout said, we used to have very heated debates. Hell quite a few of us have fallen out , or come close, in discussions that hit our political, or moral buttons. We've dropped into flame wars with each other, taken sides and formed impromptu mini-factions, played out our conflicts and then played Three Word At A Time stories with each other.

I can't quite put my finger on why it is different now. What about it is different to what we were doing before. It's not that it gets personal now, because there was always that edge to political debate. It's not that there are feuds going on, because there always were.

*shrugs*



[eta] I am rather glad this has been brought up actually. I think it's right that we, as a community discuss this sort of thing. After all, if the mods were to start wielding amighty banhammer, or deleting/closing threads, or suspending members for the kinds of thing we've been discussin, then that would represent a distinct change in their style of moderation: that is something the community needs to be involved with I think.

Also: I don't think the mods should be jumping on any post that gets personal or insulting. We're grownups we can handle a bit of insult. It's the scale and frequency of a particular kind of argument I think that is causing the problems.

That is really a problem of the present tone. Any time we post in politics we risk being lumped in with whichever team claims similar ground. Even if we did shut them down for a little while there would be a recovery period. Politics would still be a little clumsy for a while. I find it pretty sad that having pointless conflict is more important to some than continuation of community and learning about how real people all over this world really live, think, and be. The Cellar is worth defending.

This discussion is what protects the mods from shrill cries of abuse. We need something approaching consensus to justify action.

I think it is about people caring more about their politics than about people. This is turning into a cultural problem in the States and gets in the way of actually addressing problems.

Oops, you made my point first.

Very astute point!


Ouch :us: A big hurts :donut:

I chose to put the individuals on ignore several days ago. I haven't read a post nor typed a word to either of them since. I plan on continuing. If I do I request that I be banned, temporarily or permanently, mods'/UT's choice.
That good enough?

Dana - of course I eat puppies, but not EVERY morning.

Classic - I think that's a great gesture but that's just treating a symptom, not finding a cure. Your posts are only a part of the problem so all this really does is reduce the volume a bit or in all honesty really just remove one of the popular targets.

IMO any "fix" that doesn't put us on the path to intelligent interaction (at least most of the time)in the politics and current events is a just a big old fail.

Ahhhh, I hate this damn blackberry! Hopefully at least some of what I was trying to say came through.

Well aside from my interaction with them I think it has been fine. I guess what I was saying is that if all the aforementioned parties agree to the terms then that would/could/should solve the problem.

Lookout and Lumberjim:

I am curioius, do you think this....
... as a response to this:
.....contributes to a path to intellectual interaction?

OR this....
as response to this:
....contributes to a path to intellectual interaction?

Or this....
or:
or:

....to nearly every other post I make....contributes to a path to intellectual interaction?

Sure...I am party of the problem and I have responded to posts in a manner that has not been constructive. I dont deny it at all.

I could choose to ignore posts/responses like the above...but tell me...isnt that "treating the symptom and not finding a cure"?

I know he's your friend...but fix that, and you have my promise that I will keep it respectful as well.

Redux for the Ban.

Thats one way to deal with it. :)

I see what you are saying but while this may just be my bias showing, I don't think some bizarre 4 way non-aggression treaty will really change the vibe. They do a great job of winding you up and you respond in ways that you shouldn't but in your defense, your vitriol is usually aimed at 2 people in particular(not that it is better, there just isn't as much collateral damage). It is a PERSONAL battle you're in whereas the those other 2 get shitty with anyone who doesn't agree with them on a consistant basis.

While none of us are spotless in this problem I can remember a time when classic was a frequent poster and things weren't nasty and personal. I don't remember a time where redux or spexx were active that the shit wasn't consistantly flying in all directions.

Biased or not, that's my 2 cents.

Lookout....seriously, I am open to suggestions on how to respond to posts like The Mercinary's typical ones above to nearly every substantive post I (or spexx or even others) make.

Were my posts above not respectful, addressing the issue and not personal? Were his responses?

As I said, ignoring him in an option..but IMO, that is not addressing the problem.

it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board. Even here You are a professional dingleberry. You certainly need to use that as a use title if you don't get banned,

Thanks....that is very helpful, despite the fact that I dont wipe shit all over the board. I pretty much stick to politics and curent events unless called out by name.

DON'T RESPOND! Duh! Yes it does address the problem. no response = no counter-response. Probelm Solved. Only a Dingleberry wouldn't see that.

Redux, I'm not going to argue that Merc's posts are a positive. They aren't. I've said so in the past before I threw in the towel and quit engaging in those forums as much as I did.

My politics don't align with Merc's but we do share some common ground - that doesn't mean I stand with him in everything he says. I view the cellar as a place to interact... Sort of like a bar. You seem to see it as a team sport. I don't get that. As a very unwise politician once said...'If you aren't with me, ur against me...'.

But a wise jedi knows that only a sith deals in absolutes. ;)

hooyah. ban. Your opinion of yourself is way too high. And your maturity level way too low. unless you are actually 12.

Huh...a team sport?

All I want is for my respectful posts like those above to be treated respectfully or ignored...and not face a personal attack ad nauseum by one person, who obviously has better connections with many here.

IMO, it looks to me that you only really want to address half the problem.

Thats your right....and UT can ban me any time to make Monster happy. :)

Say Redux, what positive things have you done for this board? Specifically?

Honestly, Monster...I dont really think you would look objectively....but look at the examples above.

And with that i'm done with this. Reply at will but you won't get a further response.

EDIT: oh scrap that i lied. WIMP. suck it and see.

No we aren't.