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-   -   Hollywood Indirect Racism (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=23051)

freshnesschronic 06-30-2010 01:25 PM
Hollywood Indirect Racism
 
I just read this awesome article about Hollywood racism. The movie "The Last Airbender".

http://splinterend.tumblr.com/post/7...0/facepainting

It's how white actors are cast into movies based off an Asian story, replacing the Asian characters with a white cast. And the only people who look remotely ethnic are the villains, who contrast distinctly compared with the white actors.

As an Asian American it does kinda piss me off that this movie, the last Dragonball Z (a Japanese cartoon with an all white cast) movie, take away the Asian influence almost entirely.

The characters and the setting are in China for this movie...so why are all the characters white?? Jeez....just putting it out there...

jinx 06-30-2010 01:31 PM
Hey, I know a guy that's in this movie. He works at our gym...

Shawnee123 06-30-2010 01:34 PM
Was he ever in a movie with Kevin Bacon? ;)

Gravdigr 06-30-2010 03:02 PM
[Sarcasm]This is different from all the American actors in Chinese/Japanese-made movies?[/Sarcasm]

monster 07-01-2010 10:12 AM
Um yes, there aren't a greath wealth of Anglo-Chinese and no Anglo-Japanese for those countries to choose from, but there are plenty of Asian-Americans. Great melting pot and all....?

lumberjim 07-01-2010 10:16 AM
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...ino/wacist.gif

sorry

Flint 07-01-2010 10:52 AM
Quote:
As an Asian American it does kinda piss me off that this movie, the last Dragonball Z (a Japanese cartoon with an all white cast) movie, take away the Asian influence almost entirely.
freshnesschronic, it is my understanding that manga ("anime") characters have been illustrated, traditionally, with western features. This is because the pioneers of manga animation were heavily influenced by the success of Walt Disney, and emulated the Disney illustration style. In other words, characters in Japanese cartoons have NEVER been depicted with Asian features.

In this context, how is the "racism of Hollywood" to blame for a style originated in Asia, by Asians?

jinx 07-01-2010 10:56 AM
It's a process. The examples from the past really illustrate how far we've come don't they? I'm not saying we've achieved racial equality, but take a minute to appreciate the successes and to see where this will eventually go.

Gravdigr 07-02-2010 01:20 PM
If you watch a movie filmed in Russia, by a Russian studio...Shocker of all shockers, it will contain predominantly (hold on to your hat) Russian actors. I can't watch 'Das Boot' and gripe because they didn't have the common decency to speak English. It's a German film. Imagine if they peppered several Asian-Germans into the story.

If the Swiss remake 'Amistad', on the other hand, they're fucked.

Clodfobble 07-02-2010 07:10 PM
...But Gravdigr, that means what you're essentially saying is that America = white. If your statement is valid, then how is it an American studio managed to make Amistad with black actors in the first place?

freshnesschronic 07-03-2010 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint (Post 667905)
freshnesschronic, it is my understanding that manga ("anime") characters have been illustrated, traditionally, with western features. This is because the pioneers of manga animation were heavily influenced by the success of Walt Disney, and emulated the Disney illustration style. In other words, characters in Japanese cartoons have NEVER been depicted with Asian features.
this is not correct at all. I watch anime and read manga. There are plenty of "Asian" features in the Japanese illustrations.

I just agree with most of the article, wanted to put it out there for everyone to read, form own opinions. As a recent Asian American graduate, a lot of my Asian American friends do not support this film. Don't blame the actors, blame production.

gvidas 07-03-2010 02:07 AM
kind of a tangent -- sexism, not racism -- but interesting fpr how simple it is: The Bechdel Test

Quote:
1. It has to have at least two women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

Clodfobble 07-03-2010 07:45 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshnesschronic
this is not correct at all. I watch anime and read manga. There are plenty of "Asian" features in the Japanese illustrations.
There are "plenty," yes. But there are also "plenty" of series that contain nothing but very obviously white features, especially the ones targeted at the younger audience, which Airbender happens to be.

Incidentally, Airbender isn't anime: it was made by an American studio attempting to imitate popular anime styles. Here is an actor/animation comparison. Just look at those Asian features on the main character's animation (top photo.) :rolleyes: There's actually some debate on the internet as to whether the actor's half-Asian. Meanwhile, the bad guy (second photo) is Indian, the chick is Russian, and the best friend is white. Could they have gone for more Asian-looking actors to stay true to the backstory? Sure. On the other hand, the animators could have too.

freshnesschronic 07-03-2010 11:10 AM
Clodfobble, this is besides the point. This is an Asian cultured film (the setting is the East), so what if illustration didn't make them all chinky-eyed and buck teeth, prominent "Asian" features. Who says they aren't Asian, are you the judge of that?

The racism debate with casting is on the news, which somewhat comforts me that some people can be educated about it..and it's sad that those with ties in Hollywood are trying to dodge the question (as I jjust saw someone skirt the subject when it came up on a TV show), as they have no good answer.

lookout123 07-03-2010 11:16 AM
Clodfobbble, your powerful application of fact and logic are useless here.

freshnesschronic 07-03-2010 11:48 AM
Please read the article before commenting lookout.

Ibby 07-03-2010 11:52 AM
So, the american cartoon with non-ethnically-featured art (because come on, not a single one of those characters could possibly be ethnically categorized based on appearance) was made into a movie where... none of the actors' races were taken into account when they were cast? EGADS.

i mean, i don't know what's up with that movie that they made about Hachiko (a Japanese story about a loyal dog) starring Richard Gere, and it's dumb as hell that "Prince of Persia" only has one actual Persian in it, but this is even LESS blame-worthy than that. The characters in the cartoon don't look Asian - and the actors in the movie don't look Asian ('cause they aren't). I fail to see the BFD.

lookout123 07-03-2010 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 668511)
Please read the article before commenting lookout.
I did. Anything else? Maybe I should take a racial sensitivity course before looking at your threads?

or you could just learn you can go through your whole life being offended if you don't develop a thicker skin.

jinx 07-03-2010 12:33 PM
Quote:
I can only imagine how many disappointed Asian American children will flock to the theaters only to see that their animated heroes are now depicted by White actors who could never truly empathize with their distinct Asian cultural roots.
:right:

freshnesschronic 07-03-2010 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 668518)
I did. Anything else? Maybe I should take a racial sensitivity course before looking at your threads?

or you could just learn you can go through your whole life being offended if you don't develop a thicker skin.
So I should just bow down to the man clod? That's my thicker skin? I live in a white world everyday and accept it. So I cant have this opinion? Sorry for bringing this issue to light for you. Just ignore it and it'll go away for you.

lookout123 07-03-2010 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 668523)
I live in a white world everyday and accept it. So I cant have this opinion?
Bullshit. You live in a world full of people. So while you mope around in a "my sociology professor says I'm oppressed" kind of way don't be surprised when you don't get a lot of sympathy. It is bullshit, plain and simple. There is not one opportunity you don't have that is available to the cracker sitting next to you. That was, unfortunately, not always true but the country has and is changing and you need to quit looking for ways to be a victim.

Quote:
Sorry for bringing this issue to light for you. Just ignore it and it'll go away for you.
What issue? Some nerds liked a cartoon made in america using some chinese symbols and imagery that was successful enough that a hollywood studio decided to make a movie based on it. They cast the actors they thought, rightly or wrongly, would make the movie most successful. Some nerds who liked the cartoon are upset because... the non-asian cartoon characters were played by non-asian actors? Not much of an issue unless you're just looking for a way to be offended.

Undertoad 07-03-2010 01:18 PM
Hollywood is a fuck. Most movies suck. They are not about real life.

Gravdigr 07-03-2010 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 668421)
...But Gravdigr, that means what you're essentially saying is that America = white. If your statement is valid, then how is it an American studio managed to make Amistad with black actors in the first place?
There were no colors mentioned in my post. Do not paint me with that brush. I am no racist. If I were, I would have bitched about why they needed black actors to make a slave movie. But, I didn't, 'cause I aint.

I've said this before: Hear what I say, not what you think I think.

And now I'm done bitching.:D

Gravdigr 07-03-2010 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 668470)
Meanwhile, the bad guy (second photo) is Indian, the chick is Russian, and the best friend is white.
Dass waisis.

If your statement is valid...America = white.

Clodfobble 07-03-2010 09:32 PM
Dude, Gravdigr--what? You made the point that "a movie filmed in Russia, by a Russian studio...will contain predominantly... Russian actors." Your implication is that because the Airbender movie was made in America, we should expect that it will contain American actors, and by extension, Fresh can't complain there are no Asians in it. Your point was clearly that Asians aren't Americans. While I suppose this is true if you're holding strictly to a definition by nationality, the whole point of the thread is "Asian" as a race; i.e., should the studio have cast Asian-Americans?

My point was that contrary to popular complaints, they didn't cast all white actors, they cast a variety of American actors who, while not Asian-American, do in fact look like their animated counterparts, regardless of backstory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freshnesschronic
This is an Asian cultured film (the setting is the East), so what if illustration didn't make them all chinky-eyed and buck teeth, prominent "Asian" features.
I guess that must describe what they do in all those manga and anime you read with "'Asian' features in the Japanese illustrations?" Or would it maybe have been possible for the animated characters to look Asian without looking sterotypical? The actors match the animations. If you have a problem with the actors, then it's hypocritical not to have a problem with the original animated characters.

Flint 07-03-2010 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 668457)
this is not correct at all. I watch anime and read manga. There are plenty of "Asian" features in the Japanese illustrations.
And there are PLENTY of obviously western features as well (in many cases the features are predominantly or almost EXCLUSIVELY western). You never noticed that and wondered WTF??? I always did. Apparently I was more concerned about asian heritage then you were. How can that be???

toranokaze 07-04-2010 12:42 AM
The main char. I think is supposed to be Chinese but the other two supporting are supposed to be Eskimos or something like that.

Ibby 07-04-2010 02:16 AM
Having, y'know, been to Tibet (which is where the main character looks like he was stylistically modeled after), I can say that, at least personally, I completely buy the actor who plays the main character, in that role.

lookout123 07-04-2010 11:01 AM
Yeah, but you're a racist.

Gravdigr 07-04-2010 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 668645)
Dude, Gravdigr--what? You made the point that "a movie filmed in Russia, by a Russian studio...will contain predominantly... Russian actors." Your implication is that because the Airbender movie was made in America, we should expect that it will contain American actors, and by extension, Fresh can't complain there are no Asians in it. Your point was clearly that Asians aren't Americans. While I suppose this is true if you're holding strictly to a definition by nationality, the whole point of the thread is "Asian" as a race; i.e., should the studio have cast Asian-Americans?

My point was that contrary to popular complaints, they didn't cast all white actors, they cast a variety of American actors who, while not Asian-American, do in fact look like their animated counterparts, regardless of backstory.



I guess that must describe what they do in all those manga and anime you read with "'Asian' features in the Japanese illustrations?" Or would it maybe have been possible for the animated characters to look Asian without looking sterotypical? The actors match the animations. If you have a problem with the actors, then it's hypocritical not to have a problem with the original animated characters.
You should work at the Pentagon. If you can get that out of what I said, you should be deciphering the most complicated codes on the planet. I can't for the life of me guess how you translated what I said into that.

Please stop calling me a racist. And, please stop twisting what I say into racism. I'm asking you nicely.

lumberjim 07-05-2010 08:18 AM
OK., HONKEY

classicman 07-05-2010 12:27 PM
jim - you sir, are a COCK

Gravdigr 07-05-2010 03:39 PM
Honkey cock. Now 'at's waisis right tare, I don't care who ya are.:D

Gravdigr 07-05-2010 03:43 PM
Honkey reminded me of this.

wanderer 07-07-2010 08:15 AM
That bad guy is definitely Indian. I saw him in that oscar winning piece: "Slumdog Millionaire".

casimendocina 07-09-2010 08:40 AM
Some material for the break before the match starts again.

Flight of the Concords-Unnatural Love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pesc3gPDaIc

Gravdigr 07-09-2010 02:17 PM
I don't know what that was.

classicman 07-09-2010 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 669762)
I don't know what that was.
Perhaps its better left that way.

casimendocina 07-10-2010 06:27 AM
That was stereotyping of Australians from a New Zealanders point of view done so as to be completely ridiculous thereby making it hilarious (at least to Australians and New Zealanders) which is sort of pertinent to the debate of how different racial groups are portrayed in film and on TV...Flight of the Concords is a pisstake no matter what they're doing so given the intensity of the debate above, thought it was time for a bit of light relief before going back to the original discussion.

Flint 07-10-2010 11:48 AM
Currently streaming Robotech: The Macross Saga through my Wii. I'm seeing a total of one Asian character--Minmei.

ARE YOU PROTESTING THE JAPANESE ANIMATORS OF The Super Dimension Fortress Macross FOR THEIR RACISM???

kerosene 07-10-2010 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by casimendocina (Post 669895)
That was stereotyping of Australians from a New Zealanders point of view done so as to be completely ridiculous thereby making it hilarious (at least to Australians and New Zealanders) which is sort of pertinent to the debate of how different racial groups are portrayed in film and on TV...Flight of the Concords is a pisstake no matter what they're doing so given the intensity of the debate above, thought it was time for a bit of light relief before going back to the original discussion.
I love those guys.

Clodfobble 07-10-2010 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint
Currently streaming Robotech: The Macross Saga through my Wii. I'm seeing a total of one Asian character--Minmei.

ARE YOU PROTESTING THE JAPANESE ANIMATORS OF The Super Dimension Fortress Macross FOR THEIR RACISM???
Robotech is an especially funny example, because all of the Robotech sagas used stolen (well, purchased) animation from unrelated series. Like when Minmei in Robotech says her line in English, you can be sure that there exists no Japanese version of that line, because the footage was re-edited from some completely different show, where that animated character had a different name and a different plot line. The guy who bought the rights to the footage wrote the new storyline and managed all the audio recordings for his "new" American show.

Doesn't change the fact that the original Macross (which is the name of the show that Robotech: Macross Saga took all its animation pieces from) had only one Asian-featured face in it. I just had to share my meaningless cross-cultural trivia.

casimendocina 07-10-2010 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerosene (Post 669950)
I love those guys.
I love them too.

Flint 07-11-2010 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 669972)
Robotech is an especially funny example, because all of the Robotech sagas used stolen (well, purchased) animation from unrelated series. Like when Minmei in Robotech says her line in English, you can be sure that there exists no Japanese version of that line, because the footage was re-edited from some completely different show, where that animated character had a different name and a different plot line. The guy who bought the rights to the footage wrote the new storyline and managed all the audio recordings for his "new" American show.

Doesn't change the fact that the original Macross (which is the name of the show that Robotech: Macross Saga took all its animation pieces from) had only one Asian-featured face in it. I just had to share my meaningless cross-cultural trivia.
I understand that it is a combination of three previously unrelated mecha series, but as you say, that doen't change the fact that 99% of the characters are clearly not Asian. Those racist-ass Japanese animators clearly have got something against Asians.

xoxoxoBruce 07-11-2010 12:09 PM
Maybe because the target audience, in Japan, fantasizes about foreigners... where them round eyes at?

Trilby 07-11-2010 12:09 PM
anyone who knows this much about animae is a giant NERD.

Clodfobble 07-11-2010 05:37 PM
Nerd heritage outranks ethnic heritage, no doubt. I bet my house contains twice as many manga books, and three times as many anime DVDs, as freshnesschronic's.

Flint 07-11-2010 06:07 PM
I think that freshness hasn't seen much Anime before, and is basing his whole indignation on something he was directed to be indignant about.

Spexxvet 07-12-2010 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint (Post 670095)
I understand that it is a combination of three previously unrelated mecha series, but as you say, that doen't change the fact that 99% of the characters are clearly not Asian. Those racist-ass Japanese animators clearly have got something against Asians.
Can animation be racist in the same way? There are no asian animated actors playing non-asian animated parts, per se.

Who plays white characters in Bollywood movies? Are there any white characters in Bollywood movies?

Cloud 07-12-2010 03:39 PM
it's got a flying white buffalo in it! I don't even think it's set on Earth/Terra!

You (any of you) expect casting to reflect some arbitrary pc reality?

Gravdigr 07-12-2010 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud (Post 670365)
it's got a flying white buffalo in it! I don't even think it's set on Earth/Terra!

You (any of you) expect casting to reflect some arbitrary pc reality?
See, you've blabbed about the white buffalo. Now all the other buffalo are gonna want to fly.:mad:

Cloud 07-12-2010 04:26 PM
are you calling me a buffalo???? Just because I'm white and want to fly. It's so unfair!

(I'm sympathetic to anyone who experiences racism, direct, or indirect. I just don't think this film presents the most compelling example.)


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