Of all the beliefs you hold, the most dangerous...
 

...are the ones you *want* to believe in. Because they reaffirm how you believe the world works, and without that framework you become confused, or lost.

Those are the beliefs you will accept without testing. And strangely, those are the beliefs you hold that you are most likely wrong about.

(me too)

I heard that

Where is the balance and how would you proceed? Do you propose that everyone should cast off all those beliefs the they believe to be the current truth? Why shouldn't everyone who thinks this way not just kill themselves right now? If everything they believe to be the truth about the way the world works is now assuemed by you and others to be false just be done with it already? That is total crap. You are basically casting aside years of experience for the idea that what people have learned and understand are now false. What utter Bullshit.

What beliefs have you held that you no longer do?

OK, I'll play...

I believe people are basically good and that I can start from a position of trust for others to do good.

But, some people are so fanatical in their beliefs there's just no talking to them.
Sometimes this scares the behesus out of me because I know the damage they could do... lots of examples of this.

But contrary to UT's last idea, I do not agree that my beliefs are most likely to be wrong. I'm still hangin' in there.

I used to think I knew what people were thinking when they were thinking about me. (usually negative)

I finally dropped that belief when I realized they mostly weren't thinking about me at all.

That those who claim to be friends/allies will always do the right thing by those in their circle.

So, obviously it's a bit more complicated than that and perception and circumstances are big factors in deciding what is the right thing to do in any situation and as the layers of any individual or situation are peeled back over time, decisions can change and sometimes you have to put yourself first, but why someone would cultivate trust and respect over a long period of time and then wantonly squander it is beyond me.

How you think the world works.

How you believe the world should work.

How the world works.

Every once in a blue moon, these three paths converge for a brief moment in time. Oh what a sweet spot that is.

That people are mostly good. I am a pessimistic cynic.

I had to chuck 2 majors over the last few years, it is tough but not as tough as defending the indefensible.

I used to believe that people were horrible and only wanted to manipulate me. I don't believe that anymore but it took a life-change to come to that awareness. Working in health care (esp. in the US) makes normal people -and even empathetic people - lose their mojo. It's an inhumane, killing profession unless you're making HUGE money at it and even then you can lose your soul.

Isn't it a strange twist of fate that, while those are the beliefs you are least likely to be right about, some of them may be among the most conducive to survival of the species. Or, rather than fate, perhaps it's the best argument in support of self determination that we adopt beliefs like "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, ... " even though such beliefs are too young to have withstood the test of time (in terms of a species' lifespan).

Of all the beliefs you hold, the safest are the ones you *want* to believe in ... if you're a man or woman of vision.

Over the last 1 1/2 I have been almost completely reevaluating many of my core beliefs. Life has completely changed for me. I now live in a reality that is something I could not have ever imagined.
I used to think people were selfish, negative ... basically a$$holes. I have always had a relatively small number of close friends. They were people I have trusted my entire life. Most of the people I met through work, sports, clubs or whatever never seemed to develop into anything more than casual friendships.

The outpouring of love, assistance, offers, prayers, guidance and support really took me by surprise. It still does. So many people did so many things for me and my family, a relative stranger - just someone in the community. I still don't know what to think overall, but I know that my original belief was incorrect and there are a lot of good, no great people out there. Some of them are posters here as well. To them I'll just say Thank you, again.

I was really moved by an episode of This American Life (#214), where they told the story of David Paladino. His mom had a tryst with a black man in high school, and David was the unexpected result. But it wasn't a good story for mom, because she was a white cheerleader dating the white class president. Race relations were iffy at the time and place. So when her white boyfriend just assumed that the pending baby was his, it became so much more convenient for her, that she went along with it, and they married.

The baby comes out a little whitish - didn't look black - and so she was relieved, and continued to go with the story she wanted. Kid's a little dark but hey, it's possible that the family from Sicily were dark-skinned Italians. So the mom and the dad had an incredibly strong belief that this is their son together, and it goes on.

Now as the boy grows up, his racial traits come out more and more, and he's very obviously an interracial child. After days in the summer sun, this is a black kid. And everyone around them believes David is black. Almost every day there's somebody treating him as if he's black. It gets totally weird. In high school, college, it becomes annoying to him, so he starts stating his Italian heritage right up front to anyone who'll listen. Wearing shirts that say "Another Italian masterpiece", and such.

It takes him until age 27, when he has a confrontation with a homeless guy and his girlfriend, to blurt out almost by accident that he's not absolutely positive whether he has some color in him. And even then, with this weird uncomfortable notion now popping up in his head, it takes him 2 years to confront his mom. And his mom, finally, gives him the truth.

So here is a case where the evidence is everywhere. In the mirror! In every person he relates to, who asks him almost immediately about his race. In pale mom and dad and his two pale sisters. But David and his entire family find it so uncomfortable to unravel their adopted reality that they actually work really hard to maintain their belief, reinforcing it all along. To do otherwise would endanger the family structure, and they desperately don't want that to happen.

Do you have beliefs like this in your head? How would you ever know? Do you react with anger to the very idea that you might contain some fundamental falsehoods? Maybe I overstated the idea that these beliefs could be "dangerous", because they are, after all, what we want, what we depend on, and no actual harm going through life believing you're Italian.

Italian? I'd be denying that to the grave. :haha:

:lol:

It is important to figure out what ethical framework you already utilize and expand these personal strengths........ ;) It isn't too greedy to figure out what great philosophies you yourselves hold, and expand.

The real danger is being robbed of strengths- when everyone knows what your intentions are and what you are, and what principles you do have (in third person ;) ).

Hey stranger!

Why would you believe something you don't know to be true? Or at least have a reasonable amount of evidence?

I have very few beliefs, but I do believe that if you do good things in society, you will inspire other people to do good things and life will be better. I believe this because I have been inspired by others who do great things for no personal gain (other than feeling good about doing the "right" thing) and others have told me I have inspired them. It's a karma thing, with real-life reenforcement.

Its called faith.

and....?

??????????

Mons, nicely said.

Nice? Its idiotic? Didn't you get married on faith in your partner?

Do you believe in Beest not to cheat on you and to uphold his responsibilities as your life partner?

Don't you, Lamp have that same faith in your wife?

This is but one example.

Applies to marrying my wife too.

So where's the problem ?

You avoided my point completely.

Sorry Classic, I didn't mean to avoid anything.
I just don't understand the issue you are taking with what Mons said.

I use the word "belief" to refer to something I think is true
(e.g., I believe the sun will rise tomorrow morning)
I might confirm that belief by waiting til morning to see what happens.

I use the word "faith" to refer to something I hope is true (e.g., religion)
But almost by definition, I can't confirm the validity of that faith in any real-world way...

So, I wouldn't use the word "faith" as a description of my relationship to my partner.
Mons used "belief" and gave some of her own real world experiences as examples for why she finds her beliefs to be true.

Is that any closer to what you are getting at ?

You're limiting the meaning of "faith". By projecting your meaning of the word, you misinterpret what others are saying, when they use the #1 meaning.

Agreed, the distinction between the two words is not precise.
So, it's the colloquial use of the two words here in this thread,
and what Classic means when he uses them.

From your same source here is "belief"

I think this is what was being questioned, not her use of the word "belief"

Based on the fact that the core beliefs of the majority of people contradict each other, we can say, that the majority of people in the world, in fact believe something that is false.
Now, if the core beliefs of the majority of people in the world are false, then, the chances are, YOUR core beliefs are false.
So, regardless of what it is that YOU believe in, perhaps you should take a nice step back from that which is most likely blinding you.

Faith? no such thing....not amongst humans.
Faith consists of having no doubt....not even a speck of it.
If one claims to have faith, then they are to be referred to as a gnostic.
Gnostic Theists are what we call extremists.
People that have completely lost their sanity.
So, be cautious when claiming to have faith.

WHIP you're making the same mistake, faith does not mean religion. Religious faith is the third definition, so can't be assumed, and must be stated.

my post begins on topic, with a discussion of core beliefs, regardless of what they are based on

The second part is in reference to a discussion being held on perceptions of faith in regards to (I assume) a christian view on the term faith.
In this case, it is based on the words and action of the fictional character "Jesus".
In this sense, the word "Faith" would be, without doubt, and therefore is non-existent amongst christians.
"If ye only faith, you could move a mountain"
A christian, claiming to have faith, is either insane or ignorant.

The discussion prior to your post wasn't about the Christian view of faith. It was based on a more philosophical view.

You have a set of beliefs. You believe Christian's have no true faith. You see the word faith and equate it to Christians'.

Believing something as a matter of principle,to me is, only believing one's own moral precepts, while at the same time denying another theirs.

The beliefs we hold, which are the most dangerous, are the ones we staunchly defend for our self, while at the same time denying another, their own.

That clearer, Lamp?

No, not really.

I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows. That's because I have faith in rainwater and all its flower-growing abilities. Of course, I am much more pious and humble and worthy than you.

;)

Good thing l wasn't addressing you. But thats certainly never stopped you before. Now why don't you go crawl back under the rock you came out from.

The Cellar: We want to believe, but that would be dangerous!

I didn't come "out" of a rock, dumbass, I would have had to come out from "under" a rock. You were really close, but no Bob Seger.

Let me help you a lil bit, can I, if I'm gonna? "Why don't you go crawl back under that rock from which you came." That way you're not ending your sentence in a preposition, and it doesn't imply that I came out of a rock instead of out from under a rock.

FTFY
You're welcome.

wow - you've been back about 5 posts and your insanity is already tiring.
One doesn't really don't know what one didn't miss till its back.

Why don't you go over to nothingland and derail some pointless thread over there?

Yeh, I think thats where you got off course. I was trying very carefully not to interject any religion into my posts. Sorry for the confusion.

wow - please hone your verbal combat skills. You're really horrible at this. Maybe UG will say something about me and you can hump his comment's leg until it falls off?

(This from the guy who waits for any chance to derail a thread if a post in it contains even an iota of insult to any of those you consider enemys. Yeah, that's right about tw! Yeah, that's right about monster. Yeah, that's right about Spexx.)

You so remind me of Steve and Eydie Gorme as played by Michael Myers and Victoria Jackson (to Phil Hartman's Frank Sinatra) on SNL. :lol:

Looks like someone has found a convenient way to run up their post count to that elusive 20K milestone. Just think, my original join date was Apr 2006, that could have been me! :lol:

I wouldn't really call it convenient. In fact, it's a downright pain in the ass.

I will stop before that, and change my name. How about: Eenwahs? Lois Loan? George CantStandYa? Butterflies and Moonbeams?

Which do you like, sexo? :)

How about a quasi-traditional name like "SecondWind."

Ha! I would sound like a fart who can't quite win the fart race! :p:

The beliefs I use to hold:

- People are all really just good inside.
Revised to: People pretty much suck, unless they want something from you.

- If you work hard and be honest, things will work out well for you.
Revised to: Sucker!

- Most people just need to be loved.
Revised to: Some people think they want love. Some people really just need a kick in the head.

- There is always opportunity in adversity.
Revised to: There is always opportunity for further adversity in adversity.

- I can do anything if I am motivated and have time.
Revised to: Dang, lots of things hurt, these days. Now, what did I have for supper last night?

I'm glad to see you're not bitter or cynical. ;)

Eh, it's probably just a phase. I am sure I will be back to my usual peace loving hippie self, soon. ;)

Whew, cool. :D

I think we were saying the same thing about "faith"

My experience is along the lines that people can have different beliefs, and essentially agree to disagree.
But if they have different faiths (religious or not) it's an emotional difference that can lead to arguments.

So in this thread, you are the master of your own words. ;)

(Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6)

put down the lighter and step away from the pipe... :cool:

No Classic, that's the Caterpillar
Alice in Wonderland Chapter 5

lighter = lamplighter. add pipe = (lamplighter + pipe) = you are the catepillar. ;)

I think my belief system has changed a lot during my lifetime depending on my circumstances at the time.

I always thought people were good and had my best interest at heart, and I still believe that, but I think there's an extra bit on the end now. People are good and have my best interest at heat, as long as it's in parallel to or convergent with their own interests.

I don't think it's cynical to think that way. It's completely understandable even. We as human beings are far too self important when it comes down to our place in the world. Sure we're at the top of the food chain, but we still can't survive without all those things under us. Even knowing that, we still think we're more important. Really, I think we should be humbled.

now you're mixing up faith and belief.

I had reasonable evidence that beest would uphold my expectations of our marriage. Perhaps that's why we're still married.

Not at all. You are wrong - READ the definitions repeatedly posted from multiple sources.
Here's another -

She just said she had reasonable evidence.

Latin

Etymology 1

From fīdō (“I trust”) < Proto-Indo-European *bhidh-, *bhoidh- (“to command, to persuade, to trust”).
[edit] Noun

fidēs (genitive fideī); f, fifth declension

1. faith, belief
2. reliance
3. confidence, trust

Related terms

• fidēlis
• fidēlitās
• fīdō
• fīdus

Etymology 2

From Ancient Greek σφίδη (sphidē).
[edit] Noun

fidēs (genitive fidis); f, third declension

1. chord
2. the gut-string of a musical instrument
3. (plural) lyre, lute, harp (by extension)

What I find interesting about this word and its origins are the related meaning of Chord: one of which is "A straight line between two points" Which can describe certain types of faith, especially the "I have faith in God" type. It is a straight line between those two points (I and God) with no stops along the way to explain or justify one's faith.

What is really most fascinating about all these words are the subtle shades of meaning that each word offers, how a word is commonly used, or popularly used often has more to do with memes than with a sudden pan-cultural need to express a concept like Zeitgeist (mid to late 80's) or Bespoke (lately) The same goes for faith, I'm sure.

I don't care what you call it or where it stems from. All I asked was And I still don't have an answer. I know what people call it, I just don't understand why they do it.

and I asked in response to the OP

I don't accept things without testing/proof/evidence. I don't understand why some people do.