Brake job
 

Despite my relative mechanical aptitude I've done very little work on cars, mainly because I never really accumulated the tools for working on cars. I have plenty of friends who do work on cars and I am about to call one of them up and cash in a favor chip, I think.

I had to get the car inspected in Nov and it needed rear brakes. Pads, Rotors, and labor came to about $300. It needs new brakes in the front now and I don't really have that much coin at the moment. Looking at the cost of parts on the internets it looks like a set of decent rotors and pads should run me about $140. I'll have to call my local parts place, but those prices are about $70 less than what my shop charged me.

The labor of having my friend do it is the cost of a six pack of beer and a pizza. (figuratively speaking)

So, What should a front brake job cost? How long should it take? Should I cash in my favor chip with my pal or try to do this myself? I also don't have a lot of time to learn from my mistakes right now, so having a pro who knows the territory seems like a smart move.

Do you have a nice place to work, or will you be outside in the slush?

The first and only time I did a brake job (without replacing the rotors,) it took about two hours. I was taking my time and taking pictures as I went so in case I had trouble I could see how everything was.

I have tentatively lined up a garage with a heater.

Nice!

There are lots of resources out there that give step by step instructions, and you are certainly capable of doing this job.

But sometimes it's fun to do it with a friend, learn how from them so you can do it on your own with confidence next time.

I first felt the confidence to do the job after reading this step by step guide, and then I read the actual service manual for my car before actually doing it.

Don't forget to pick up a few packets of the brake pad lubricant that come in those ketchup packet sized packets. You put a little bit of this lubricant between the thin brake shims and the brake pads in order to prevent squealing. Don't get any on the face of the pads or on the rotor.

What makes you think you need rotors?

front brakes are a 2.5 degree of difficulty on a scale of ten.

you need a jack, some jackstands or a honking chunk of wood beam (8x12??, cinderblocks, etc. don't fucking skip this part). A big C clamp or king size channel locks. a small box end wrench for the bleed nipple, like... 8 mm or something.
probabaly a 13 mm to break loose the caliper from the car. You will also need another person. this is not a one man job, during reassembly, someone, maybe the inch, needs to sit in the car and pump the brake pedal, hold it down on your command, repeat.

Not hard, kinda messy.

Adding a rotor swap is still not hard, but more dollars and another layer of double hernia bolts to break loose and reinstall.

Big V..go over to your What is This thread, please. Its time to give us the answer.

Well, it seems SWMBO has been driving several hundred miles with the metal on metal sound and when I took a look at the rotors today there were a few 1/8" deep grooves running around.

Why bleed them? There is no need to disconnect the caliper from the hydraulics, just have a piece of heavy wire to hang the caliper free from it's mounting position, so it doesn't hang on the hose. The clamp pushes the piston back enough to insert the new pads. The hydraulic system is closed, so unless fluid has been added during the wear down of the pads, clamping it will just return the fluid to the master cylinder.

The only caution is, since the rear was done a short time ago, if whoever did the the rear, added fluid while the fronts were almost worn out, there might be too much fluid in the system. Depends how they did the rear, but normally they shouldn't have had to break the system either.

That happened when I did my brake job. I just used a clean glue syringe to suck up a little fluid out of the reservoir fill cap to keep it from overflowing and making a mess. Didn't bleed anything. Well, except I always bash my knuckles on any job like this and a little blood is involved.

Did you have to remove fluid or just a precaution?

I had to remove a little to keep it from overflowing. I had heard the stuff will peel paint, so I didn't want it spilling. As I compressed the caliper piston on each side, I took my time and check the level of the fluid at the cap. Once it became obvious it would overflow, I sucked out about an ounce or so with the syringe.

Oh yes, peel paint, eat wiring, and dissolve your driveway.
Worked with a kid who lived where they had to park on the street, and had one neighbor that parked by ear. Plastic squeeze bottles of brake fluid, duct taped to the kid's bumper, exacted revenge. Didn't squirt high enough to get the hood, but screwed the anodized aluminum grille.

brakes are easy. if you do replace the rotors don't forget to clean and repack the bearings. that bearing packer that i used kept the job reasonably clean. check out This thread. i just changed front brakes and rotors on the Fixed Or Repaired Daily. took about 45 minutes total. one thing that you may or may not be able to do that saved me some time is if you're going to change the rotors too then there is no need to remove the assembly from the brake mount. just remove the two bolts holding the entire unit to the disc. you can then swap out the pads. don't forget to c-clamp the old pads and squeeze the calipers back out to make adequate room for the new pads around the new discs.

Isn't that term "bearing packer" derogatory? They're people too, y'know.

Unfortunately that easily doubles the price. Gouges that deep means (most likely) rotors must be replaced. Rotors cost more than brake pads.

Details on the car are also important. Some wheels cannot be removed from the hub without special equipment.

If the rotors are not gouged excessively, then rotors must be 'turned down' by a lathe. Some rotors are not to be removed and taken to a shop. Instead, a special tool is attached to the wheel to resurface a spinning rotor.

There really is no replacement for a shop manual or something equivalent. Disc brake designs are no longer standard. For example, if you improperly remove a Honda rotor, then bearing failure (and alignment problems) can result.

And finally, many brakes ride on two shafts. Some are inside sealed assemblies. Grease in those assemblies must be molybdenum type - high temperature type grease. Not expensive. But do not use standard wheel bearing grease on those moving brake parts.

Things would have been so much simpler ($hundreds simpler) if a driver had paid attention to a sound that was screaming "Fix Me!". Ditto for those who foolishly ignore the Check Engine light. Or that girl who never did an oil change in over five years. Ahh but that is how we learn - if we do not dump our mistakes on someone else.

:lol2:

da bearing packer!

oh and tw does make very good points. what is the beast you're working on anyway? year make and model...

year/make and model, is that like a/s/l? for auto mechanics?

It's a 2004 Hyundai Sonata.

i'm pressed for time to get ready for work. hope THIS helps! looks pretty simple.

this may help to: video

also depending on how the rotor is mounted, in my case with a nut and cotter pin, make sure that when replacing the nut you only put it on hand tight. you want the rotor to spin somewhat freely. good luck! off to the go kart killing fields now.

That tells me he doesn't need the packer, the disc is separate from the hub.

brake job is done. Thanks to everyone. My new neighbor who happens to love working on cars came over and we did the pads, the rotors will wait for spring. The two (as in R and L) lower pins that the caliper rides on were frozen and required a torch, some deep creep, and a BFH to loosen. When they came off it all went back together quickly.

Hopefully you measured the rotors. Determined if they can be turned down or must be replaced. If replaced, take time to find replacements in a junk yard, internet, etc.

Those gouges, as described, imply you will have to replace those pads when new rotors are installed.

What were the pads? $70?

Those rotors don't get turned, they're throw aways, cheaper than the pads.
The grooves in the old rotors will leave small ridges on the pads, which will wear down quickly on new rotors.

Ya cant turn certain type rotors , BMW etc,,,
A former boss found that out the Hard way

Replacement rotors for the 70's Corvettes came .015" over to true 'em, then use 'em and toss 'em.

man i hate using a torch but they're extremely useful. had to use one on my exhaust manifold nuts to free them so i could drop the exhaust to change my transmission. that hot ass flame in that tight area with all that other crap around? :eek: was afraid i would burn something else and cause more damage (spend more dough).

congrats on a job well done! hope you had a victory beer! :guinness:

$25/set

Oh yes!

Well done!

You got the cheap (low mileage) ones. Good. Since with gouges on the rotor, those brake pads must not be used when the rotor is replaced or turned down. (By set, you meant all four?).

Well four pads for the front, i.e. inboard and outboard L, inboard and outboard R.

Yeah, I figured this was completely sacrificial and if I got 3 months out of them that would be fine. No sense in wasting $ on good pads with those rotors.

They should be good for a few years. Hopefully you remember how thick they were. Record that and current mileage. Next time you are in there, measure. I learned a lot by doing these things. Those pad were so cheap as to maybe be the least expensive per mile (when you are not paying for labor). Softer pads are also suppose to cause less rotor wear.

the new pads will "form/wear" to the rotor. if the rotors are not warped then there will be no front end wobble when hitting the brakes. i assume that the pads have the wear "feelers" on them. let the wife know that when she hears the first evidence of a shook shook sound to let you know (or any abnormal sound for that matter). that means the pads are getting thin and it's time to replace them again. another mentionable thing is when/if you change the rotors take them to autozone or whomever and have them mic them. on the under side of the rotor there should be a stamp of the minimum tolerance (aka max wear) that the rotors should be replaced. mine were minimum 41.7 i think for the used ones. i took them to o'reilly and they mic'ed them at 38.9. way past their life. Fixed Or Repaired Daily rolls great now. hell my shimmy was so bad when i hit the brakes i jerked myself off hands free!! (why did i change them then?!?) i dunno. :D again congrats on a job well done!

In most states, rotors too thin is illegal. In other states, that will get you sued. If rotors are too thin, the shop will refuse to turn them down (resurface them).

Many cars today are not designed to take those rotors to a shop. Today, rotors are turned down while still on the car. More reasons why one consults the shop manual before doing anything.

I know of at least one car where the shop foolishly tried to remove those rotors - to take rotors to a shop. Wheel bearing failure resulted. To many mechanics just know rather than first learn. And so cloud had how many computers replaced in "Cloud's car stuff"? When the problem obviously was a simple defective valve.

Read what is unique with this car before diving in. But, and this I cannot encorage enough - dive in.

i did not know that, wow. ok i can see that.

what happened?

yeah def dive in and explore your car. i'm doing it out of necessity. can't afford a mechanic but i'm getting to know ol bessy on an intimate level. i remember summer before last i was working on planes not trucks. planes are easier.