About at my journey's end
 

Every time homegirl comes back from a visit with her mom she is a mental wreck AND a total bitch to me and the kids. I've tried talking with her about this many many times. Denial is not just a river in Africa.

Ready to throw in the towel today...

What do you mean by throw in the towel? Get divorced? Break up?

Naa , its cheaper to keep her

Well, he has a rifle now.:unsure:

ssshhhhhhh!

like get divorced and break up.

How often does she go to her mum's 3ft ?

down with any broad that doesn't dig footer.

jeesus, sorry bro. you deserve better than you're getting

That really sucks foot. Sometimes you just can't do more than you've done. We've all been where you're headed (well, most of us) and it's a sucky place to be. I'll hope for a miracle for you.

How long does it usually last for after she gets back?

Sorry to hear it's gotten this bad, foot. Dana and monster are asking the right questions though. I would also add, does her mom live in town now?

It would be cheaper, and better for the kids (divorce stress aside, they're still going to have to deal with their mom being bitchy even if you successfully extricate yourself from it) if you could enforce a buffer period. Like maybe tack on an all-day spa treatment after every visit, before she's allowed to come home. Lay it out right, and it could be "for her" and not for you.

Well, there is the woodchuck solution ... applied to the MIL, I emphasise!

Seriously, what Clod said. Related: Australian soldiers in Vietnam were stagering back to base from R&R so pissed and hung-over that they were useless the next day. A rule had to be brought in that their last (I think) 24 hours of R&R were on base and dry. Gave them time to sober up before more soldiering.

So if it is viable, maybe a few hours getting massaged, soaked, aromatherapised, etc might improve Homegirl.

If not, have the massage yourself. She'll still be the same, only you won't mind so much.

All of the advice above sounds good-implementable? Is the considering divorce bit only because of how she is when she gets back from her mum's or are there other contributing factors?

Yes, this is where I was headed, although I was thinking a day out for you and the sprogs while she "settles in" back home. Clod's solution is craftier, but is just "being away" a factor as well as mom? Some people are stressed by being away from home and when they get back home and start to feel in familiar surroundings, that's when they relax enough to let the stress go -sometimes not to good effect. Perhaps if you are just out of the fall-out zone when this happens? Maybe a compromise -a spa day at home?

oh, my. I'm sorry to hear it.

I like you, footy. I think you're swell. Take some time and think and breathe and de-compress. Divorce isn't the heaven some people think it is....get some time and space.

Take a deep breath. . . then a few more. There is so much to think about before going there. Bri has it right - it is not the heaven some think it is. It creates a whole new host of problems - just a couple -2 households, double all bills -split time with/without kids, parenting...

aw fuck, bro.

I should have a bunch of advice for you, but I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing or why anymore. Would not go back if given the chance at this point, but if I could go back in time and fix it before the damage was irreparable, I'd do that foshizzle. Whatever you decide to do, and if you want to, count on me when you need to talk to someone. I'll email my cell #, call me anytime.

Good times is what! You have teh skillz to find somebody who actually likes you and stuff. Your time is now if it isn't already. So it will be with footer, after a time.

:grouphug: for the pains.

That's all I know.

I wonder if she does something at her mother's which she is ashamed of. Causing an argument with you may justify her behavior at her mother's. Or perhaps she is upset that you all get along well without her. Just thinking.

Dr. Gravdigr prescribes weed. In copious quantities.

Maybe you could try giving her some alone-time when she returns from MIL's? You know give her time to unwind, decompress?

I don't know what to say, brother.

There is real pain in your voice and that hurts me to hear it. Not like your shoulder which was painful but had a "solution". Part of me wants (urgently) to *fix* this for you and yours. Ha... I know I can't fix it. Furthermore, you know how to "fix" it, if it is "fixable" at all. Buddy, you've put me in a difficult position here!

So, I'll listen instead. That I can do and do well. Talk on, and if you accidentally say a question I *can* answer, my inner fixer will leap at the opportunity. He knows a lot about this stuff. For now, he's safely gagged. Please, continue.

Is she aware that this is a 'dealbreaker'? Have any solutions been discussed or thrown out there?

I'm sorry foot. You are a good guy, and don't deserve this. I don't have any advice for you. I just hope it all works out and you can avoid the divorce. I've seen people manage divorce well, and come out the other side much better off and happier. I've also seen people really get destroyed by it. The financial side of divorce can be absolutely devastating for everyone involved, especially when kids are involved. I'm not saying you should stay in a bad marriage to save a buck, but you should try everything to save it before you cross that bridge.

Hey, thanks everyone for the outpouring of love and empathy.

I talked to my brain tightener today about it and have some strategies in place. Need some more time to cool off and clarify before I can talk about it.

The only Q I can get to right now is that this lasts for a few days, varies in severity and has been going on for as long as I've known her.

There are mitigating circumstances, and countless promises to deal with it and a belief that she is dealing with it, but I think it is not enough.

more later.

good luck, yard.

I recently heard about an elderly couple that were getting a divorce. He's 99 and she's 95.

Someone asked them why they want to get a divorce after being married so long.

They said, "We wanted to wait until the kids were dead."

@ glatt: I once asked a lawyer why is divorce so expensive? Ha answered, Because it's worth it.

and then I laughed.

and HLJ, that is one of my favorite jokes

Love is grand.

Divorce is ten grand.

Snickered out loud.

I wish mine was only ten grand - It ended up being more than 5x that.

However my kids are older and I am far happier now.

YMMV

Sorry for you pain and frustration. I'm a fan of trying to make it work, even if you give it a go over and over again. We tried, we failed. I'm happy now, but it took a while to get back to happy. Sounds like you have a lot of friends here to lean on. Good luck to you.

That's what you get for being less poor than me.

Sorry to hear about it, footy. As you know, I have been through it, too. It wasn't pleasant and still isn't in a lot of ways. But if there is no other way to cope, then, you have to make the decision that is best for you and your family. The good news is, it does get better. :comfort:

Yeah, I suppose it's funny, but I posted it because I think it says something important about relationships.

mmm true.

I realize tonight and after talking with my doc that for real a 3rd person needs to be present when we talk since there is a big reality problem.

Things did not end up great for the kids tonight and the level of response was disproportionate to the (perceived) offenses.

Just super sucky.

I can relate to that. There were times with J, I wished I could surreptitiously record the conversation to be able to play it back after and try and make some fucking sense of it. And to have some kind of anchor for when half of what was said or agreed got edited out or altered in his memory. Other times I just wished someone else was there to see and maybe tell hm things he'd refuse to see if I was saying them. Kept landing in bizarroland conversations out the blue.

Not exactly the same, but I suspect it felt similar.

Sounds like a shitty tme 3ft. Hope you find a way through or over that doesn't hurt too much.

This sort of sounds like me while I was going menopausal. Just off the chart blow ups. The boys just weathered the storms. I'm so glad that's done.

That's such a good point, although f3 says it's happened forever. But if there's any chance homegirl is menopausal, that might explain why it's now that you can't take anymore and maybe give you hope for a better future.....

I heard/read/whatever that the three times when moms/daughters don't get on is daughter puberty and menopause of both.

they have a name for this, it's called counseling.

Have you been to counseling together before? It can also be called mediation, before or during divorce. I've been through all these, and I can report that they have widely varying degrees of efficacy. Very much depends on the skill of the people involved and even more so, the degree to which each party is willing to be changed. Coming from a bad situation, it's reasonable to expect a desire to change. Unfortunately, that change is most often desired to occur in the other person. *Sigh*.

I can remember when I felt Tink and I needed an interpreter or a referee. Those were bad days. I bring this up to show you my empathy creds, not to make this about me. Keep talking man.

wow Dana. I remember that same feeling very clearly. Recording the conversation turned out to be both impossibly clunky and utterly simple. We'd start a conversation/argument and within a couple sentences, we were arguing about what the other said/meant. This became such a habit it was practically unavoidable. Needless to say, we worked out practically nothing.

The answer to "recording" the conversations was simple too. We communicate mostly via email now for just this very reason. Of course, we still argue. But the volume is lower, and the you said she said he said is down to almost zero. OF COURSE, deciding to communicate via email while bumping elbows over the sink at tooth brushing time is ridiculous.

But having that record made communication possible again.

Sadly, to get to that point (email), we first had to use "training wheels" (read: Attorney$). That is to be avoided if possible.

There are times when I've done it, though. It accomplishes what you've said, plus there's a sense of importance when you see something in writing. My wife sometimes does not hear what I say, and this technique does make a difference. On the other hand, we're now in counselling.

I'd like to expand on my remarks.

Writing down what is on your mind and on your heart is an excellent way to communicate. It does have some complications. It is not very spontaneous compared to oral communication. There's no guarantee that the recipient will read it or understand it. Written communication misses many of the nuances of face to face communication where non verbal communication can be as rich as the words being spoken. Please note I say complications, not disadvantages.

In my experience, being less spontaneous was often an advantage since it gave me the time to deliberately compose my thoughts. Speaking in anger has almost always had very negative effects, and my anger was often cooled by the time I set pen to paper.

Being unsure that the recipient will "get it" literally and figuratively is a risk, but no more or less a risk than with verbal communication. Communication is the sending and receiving of information. Just saying it doesn't really make it communication. Nor does only writing it, but, unlike speech, writing out my thoughts is by itself a useful exercise. It is sometimes cathartic, or clarifying, and this *can* happen even without a receptive audience.

Writing can have a tone of voice, but it's not the same as vocal inflections. There's something magical about the human voice that touches us deeply. Unfortunately, in situations like this, the sensation that touch leaves is anger or frustration or despair or contempt. I have reacted to the tone and missed the words and this has crippled the communication. Missing that exquisite intensity can let me focus better on the content of what is being conveyed.

Writing's totally worth it, and I wholeheartedly recommend it. We have lots of tools, writing's one of them. Try them all, keep paying attention, use what works.

To try to give you a kid's perspective since i dont have a married one:
My dad is endlessly cranky. My mom still puts up with it and makes excuses for him. To me it just makes me sick and has driven me away from both of them. He's not physically abusive, and I'm not sure I would call him emotionally abusive but it's pisses me off how he treats her sometimes. Not to mention he does the same damn thing to me. I don't really want them to divorce, but I do wish that I didn't have to deal with him all the time and could just see my mom. That's awful I know. Your kids might have similar feelings about your situation, but then again I'm older.

At this point:
42 y.o. no menopause that I can see.
visits mom ~ every 6 weeks
visits last 2-3 days
reaction lasts 2-4 days
unreasonable, irrational, and in denial.
She is sort of working on seeing a therapist as a prelude to counselling. Been that route before with middling results.

Things have calmed somewhat, but I know it is just an ebb tide. Waiting to see if the therapist actually happens before I make ultimatums.

Hot flashes are not the only sign of the change. I feel sorry for men just when they think they have the woman monthly thing figured out menopause happens. Asking her to have some blood work done for a hormone check will probably be taken as an insult and possibly another verbal assault to follow. :thepain:

Maybe you can suggest at an opportune moment that you both have blood work done just to make sure everything is A OK.

IMO Something happened to her. Childhood abuse maybe. Everytime she goes to her mom's its coming out... it may be getting harder and harder to control. Chances are, she will resent you and anyone who tries to help her ( for a while) Chances are, she hates what she is doing as well.... hence the anger and denial. Pretending nothing is wrong is her defence.
Help will hurt her at first.... but it will be a good thing for all of you. One way or another. All you can do is strongly suggest councelling. If she wont go, you go... and the kids if possible. They need to know its not their fault.
Sorry you are going through this... hugs to you.

Update of sorts.
Things have cooled down enough to where we can begin a dialog. Very cautious.

Mutual friends have been enlisted and I've been told she is aware, to a great extent, of her behavior. Less so of my being at my journey's end.

I am cracking the cover of "No more mr. nice guy" again.

Thanks to all of you for your emotional support. You are all a peach.

That's for women. For divorced men it's great... the best booze, drugs, cars, and lots of hos...
oh wait, that's millionaires I'm thinking of. nevermind

*grins*

:grouphug:

Kumbaya, my Lord...

Sorry to hear about it.

Take your time with it. Get a babysitter and take an overnight trip to reconnect and talk it out away from the kids.

Even that small piece of generic advice is presumptuous of me. There is so much I don't know. Still, alone time and communication are almost never a bad idea.

Good luck with everything.

If I'm really tired and scanning, I sometimes miss the point.:eek:

Griff's edit ain't half bad, but would probably cause more trouble than it's worth. Plus, I'd feel guilty as hell if I didn't also bring mrs foot...

A threefer?

:lol:

Sorry for lolling in ur serious thread.

hell, I started it.

I have a question:

What is Mrs Foot's degree of dedication to the union?

I realize that you might (probably) want to ignore this question here, STFU, perfectly fine responses. I ask from my own experience. As plain as it is to say out loud, it was surprisingly easy to overlook in my own thoughts at the time. I might want to keep the marriage intact, but if Tink wanted to end it, it was over. Each party has the right and the ability to end it (passively, consciously, actively, neglectfully, etc etc.). It takes two to make it work.

Do you want it to work?

Does she want it to work?

Is the desire of each explicitly known to the other?

Unless you have three yes answers in a row there, you absolutely have a deal breaking problem.