deck
 

I'm building a deck at my friend's house. The township he lives in puts people through some serious waiting. I had to submit detailed plans and 3 copies of the design with the permit application. Then they said the back edge of the deck was too close to the rear property line, and had to be shortened. They want 25 feet between the two, and 10 ft from the sides. The plans were finally approved this week, but they want to do 3 inspections. First one after the footers are dug, but before they are poured.... then once it's framed. then a final.

here is the 3 d model i built in Google Sketch up..... I had to remove the landings, though.....because they would be considered part of the deck. balls. so, here is the original model without the railing:

3 inspections... scamming wankers.

3 inspections is standard here too..... I agree with your summary, Griff.

We typically have one inspection here.

A friend in Md recently built a new deck last fall. He submitted all the paperwork, was approved and upon completion the inspector said he wanted it all dissembled and replaced using only the approved nails. NAILS??? My friend used all Azec material and Kreg decking screws. My neighbor said a lot under his breath and then a simple "yeh sure." He said they haven't heard from the inspector since.

My kids have been helping my dad build a deck platform at the edge of his dam so they can just jump straight in. It's pretty awesome. I'll try and put a pic up a bit later on if anyone's interested.

eta: They didn't worry about getting any council approvals. They just built it. :D

Yeah, when I built my deck, I went, sat down with Jack McKewen, the borough manager, sketched it out with approximate measurements, and paid him $65. Then I built it. The end.

Ahhh the good ole days ...

too much gov't regulation

link

[soapbox] Seriously, if you want to put people to work, put an unnecessary regulator out of work. That would have an actual multiplier effect. [/soapbox] Now back to our regularly scheduled cool home project.

Unnecessary regulators suck. But so does an improperly built deck that collapses when you have a party and 15 people are standing on it. Decks seem to be more susceptible to collapse than buildings. I'm not sure why that is. I never remember hearing of building just collapsing under the weight of people, but I do remember hearing of half a dozen news stories where decks collapsed and people were hurt.

Three inspections is overkill in most deck situations, but I can see how if a finished deck has hidden framing, you would want to inspect the framing before it was covered. Maybe the inspectors are just not interested in crawling around under low decks and maybe taller decks often finish the space a little underneath so that the framing is somewhat hidden. Tall decks have the most potential danger, so they should be thoroughly inspected.

Inspections can't catch everything though. I was helping a guy build his deck once, and he was using hangers for the joists. He used the short nails to hang the hangers to the posts, and the long nails to nail through the joists. I saw him do it and corrected him, but an inspector wouldn't have been able to see the length of the nail based on the visible nail head.

YEah... I have no problem with the inspections... just the time it took to get the friggin permit in the first place. I'm hoping that they are prompt coming out to do them, is all.

I get it that they need to make sure the holes are deep enough, and that there are enough to support the deck, and that the framing is sturdy enough. I'll be using screws and treated wood for the inner framing, but nails and clear cedar for the visible decking and railing. It's 16' x 18' and the lumber alone cost $5400. And I shopped around for the best price. DiamondM lumberyard is supplying it.

The homeowner has a mason doing the footers tomorrow. I can't wait to get started.

one thing i like about texass, just do it. yeah, they want you to call before digging/trenching, as long as you aren't in a right of way, phuck it. build it. funny thing is this tho, the HOA will screw you over before the govt will here.

nice plans btw jim, would love to see the pics of the build if you can...

I have to agree. Those plans look good. They are well thought out. Looks like they even take a hill by the steps into account. Too bad the landings got axed. I really liked those.

That's just what I was thinking... "Inspections and permits? For just a backyard deck? That's crazy!"

Building it virtually first illuminated several design flaws. I would have put the footers in the wrong spots, for one, and the railings would have looked shoddy....and just the way the outer box of the frame fits together changed the overall length by 3 inches... Again changing the location of the footers. Sketch up allows you to look at it from all angles and it predicts line location, centers you, tell you where the x y and z axes are... Fucking sweetest free program evar..... Like as far as meat space application goes. I would love to design decks for a living.


I should have been an architect. /costanza.

I'm going to have to just put a big wide set of steps on the face, and break it around the corner to meet a little one. He has a covered porch right next to the deck that might have been an issue with those landings anyway. I can't seem to upload pics off this iPad so I will post before shots later. Thankfully, I took a few shots with the regular camera too.

ok... so, here's the before shot:

and a very quick and dirty drop in of the plan just to see what it will be like...

People that need to control people will end up using whichever system is in place, be it a HOA or a government. tw is a big advocate of state level regulation which we've mostly managed to avoid in PA. Around here we just build. Rural people hate this stuff because we often don't have the economic power or the inclination to have "professionals" do our construction.

You are confusing state level standards with regulations.

For example, those doors open to a drop. Standards dictate that a rail be installed outside those doors so that someone does not open the door and walk off the ledge.

Would those standards be regulated in some way, by someone?

Just referred to by the lawyers after somebody gets hurt.

Seriously, what could happen without permits and inspections? :rolleyes:

Great videos spexx. I especially liked the last one. Anyone stupid enough to think that 1, one 4x4 is gonna support a deck...
I still agree with glatt

Which would mean that regulations for decks aren't unnecessary, and in fact protect you from unscrupulous contractors or ignorant do-it-yourselfers.

Did you miss this part?
Unnecessary regulators suck. :eyebrow:


And as discussed previously there are some serious redundancies involved depending upon where you live.
I never said there should be NO REGULATION.

So anyway Jim, I haven't used Google sketchup that much. I did design a bookcase with it to maximize the size of the bookcase with the wood that I had. It was pretty helpful. Making that virtual bookcase probably took an hour or so, and it only had like 8 pieces of wood in it. How long does it take to make that deck in sketchup? There must be a hundred different pieces. Is there a fast way to draw in all that decking? Like after you make one deck board the perfect dimensions, can you copy it and just keep pasting them in? Or do you draw each one individually?

Do you use a mouse, or that fancy drawing pad you have?

*snort*

I emailed you the file glatt. If you 'save copy as' you can play with it. For some reason it makes the file read only when you email it or upload it. Sketch up does have a feature called 'components' where you could build each type of board and the assemble them.... But I am just figuring that out, and getting the pieces to line up exactly where you want them is frustrating. I just drew it in two dimensions and used the extrude tool to make three d objects. Oh and the mouse is definitely the way to go. The zooming in and out with the wheel is a big part of navigating around the drawing.

It would be really cool to get fast at it and go into business custom creating decks for people. I would need a good crew of carpenters, and a lawyer to cover my ass..... But I bet the rich would love to pay for a Jim Hjelm original deck.... I mean Helm. Especially if they could have input on the design ... I could spend a hour or two consulting and creating it before their eyes in sketch up.... For a moderate fee upfront, of course. And then recommend my crew to make it real, or just consult and or physically contribute further if they decide to DIY...

I'd like that very much. If I had any kind of regular free time I might have a go at that idea. Maybe Bruce (the friend who's deck this is.....and No,not that Bruce.... He has no hugs and kisses for you).... BuT anyway... Maybe he'll tell two friends and They'll tell two friends.....

I made friends with Lois in the Cherry Hill Zoning Office..... Flirting with women in positions of authority is a reflex for me at this point..... So if I can get local gigs maybe .....?


Ah.... It is to dream...

That's where I always had trouble. I think there was a place where you could type in numbers into a box to get things the exact dimensions you want, but it's been a while since I played with it.

Thanks for sending the file. I'mma play with it a bit.

Mr. Clod used Sketchup to design an arcade cabinet he was going to build. It worked like a charm on all those not-perpendicular angles those things have.

I am on my way to go pour concrete footers. My cars thermometer says it is 104 degrees out. This is really gonna suck.

I don't even want to sit on my deck in this weather. It'd probably just fall down or explode into flames anyway since we don't have housing inspectors here.

so, yeah... moving wheelbarrows of concrete 30 yards from the driveway to the back of the house in 103 (actual) degree weather is a LOT of fun.

I don't know how I manage to do it, but I always seem to end up doing outside chores on the hottest days of the summer.

anyway.... I survived.

Here's the footers:

What did you use to get all the tops at the same height?

Be honest, jim.

There are hobos buried under there.

Don't know how Jim did it, but a water level will do the job.

Could also use a surveyor's transit.

Oh come on ,
String line with a level

The tops are not at the same height. the mook that was hired to do the holes just bulled through it. truck is here, gotta pour it...

its ok... i'll make the legs the proper length to level the deck. and i'll hide those tubes in boxes.

That's what I thought, based on the picture.

The holes, the empty holes, the filled holes...

then you jam the form down into the concrete? and then top them off.

That's what the mason did.... In retrospect, I'm thinking that maybe it would have been better to put the tubes in cut to be flush with ground level.... back-fill with dirt, fill to level with the ground. I'm kind of bummed that I didn't slow him down and tell him what we were doing. I was warned that he was a bit of a blunderer, but this seemed such a basic job, that we figured he couldn't fuck it up. Plus, it literally WAS so fucking hot that all I could really spend my attention on was laying out the location of the bolts I'm putting in the exact spot...which i have no confidence of at this point... and how could there possibly have been this much sweat in my body? Forreals though... I really wish it had been nicer and less rushed by the huge ass concrete truck idling in the driveway while we carted loads back, and how fast it set up. It will serve, but elegant it is not. I'm going to have to cover that shit up.

Anyway... I'm reserving judgement until I can see what I've got after the deck is up.

and enough about the footers....

We ended up having to chop one of those pillars off, because it was just too far out of line.

Here's the header.... It's the suckiest part of the job, because someone has to go into the crawl space and tighten the bolts up. That someone was not me.

We're using Cedar on the outside(visible) portions, but treated innards to save $$.

Here, we have to span 18', so I used two boards of each kind, and offset the joint. The cedar in back is a 2x12, the treated wood is a 2x10. I counter sunk the bolt heads so that they don't interfere with the joists that will hang inside there.

then we, dummy up the frame, and level it.

measure the posts, and cut them level with the treated board( this is 1" below the cedar, so that when the decking goes down, it's flush.

then attach the posts to the mounting brackets we installed on those pillars. This is Bruce's friend, JC. he was the lucky guy that got to go into the crawl space.

so, here's after we cut that one problem pillar off....

overall progress... I have the box up, and standing on it's own.... the girder and the rest of the posts are next.

Wait. You cut the concrete pillar off? How?

sweeeeet!

Or should I say


sweat?

i don't even know. it was gone when i got there Tuesday night. I had to smash the area flat with a big sledge hammer because it was all lumpy.

It's looking good!

Nice.

Very nice, Jim. I never knew how much went into building one of those.

Looking real good Jim.

You're a good friend, Jim. Nice job.

Getting the Joists prepped for hanging.... First I have to cut them all down 3 inches to 189". It's been raining. A LOT. This wood is wet. This wood is heavy. This wood is wet and heavy.
2nd pic:

Joist hangers are hung. I squat down 24 times and eyeball it so that the bottom of that 2X10 should support the joist and have the bottom edges of the joist and the header board flush, or real close to flush. I only nail the left side for now. Once the joist is in place, I'll fasten the right side, and toe nail the joist itself. Today's joist hangers have angled holes in the sides that make toe nailing idiot proof. This is a convenience. I approve. In the foreground, you can see the centers post, and the beginning of the girder. That will be a double 2x10 on both sides of the posts. I needed a helper for that, and was working alone today, so I stopped trying. There is other stuff that I can do solo, so I did.

Crowning the joists after I cut them. Most boards are not perfect. There are a few truly straight boards, but they are the exception. Most will have a crown. this means that they curve slightly. If you look along the edge of a board, you can see it. If your eye is right in line, and you can see the close bit, and the far bit, but not the bit in the middle then the crown is on the opposite side. You want that side up in your construction, as the boards are less likely to sag under weight.

1. close bit, far bit
2. middle bit
3. mark the board so when I go to hang it, I don't have to do that again.
4. This is me with my protective eyewear and flared nostrils. Those boards are wet and heavy.