What "Blue Laws" are in effect where you live ?
 

Years ago (many) we lived in Dallas, and stores were closed on Sundays,
or had aisles roped off so only certain goods could be purchased.
We moved to Boston, and same thing there, only much more so.

PDX TV also covers Vancouver, WA, and we are seeing both pro/con ads
for a ballot measure to close Washington's State-operated liquor stores,
and to allow alcoholic beverages to be sold in stores.
I don't know if it would be only "liquor stores", or groceries and stop-n-robs, too.

Oregon has state-operated liquor stores too, so I'm sure the measure will come up here too.

What other types of Blue Laws are (still) in effect where you live ?

Nothing to do with "blue laws" here.
I don't know what they are, but I get the gist.

We can't buy alcohol before 08.30 or after 23.00 in shops.
In bars it depends on their license.

Here in Bergen County, blue laws are still in effect, but it seems that most towns tend to let stores open on Sundays if they want.

In Paramus, the legislation to repeal the blue laws has always been defeated. Considering there are seven malls in Paramus, that's no surprise.

After the recent hurricane, locals couldn't buy new sump pumps because the stores were closed under blue laws.

Sundae, until I googled them, I thought they came from England with the colonists.
But I guess they actually started in the Connecticut Colony,
as laws passed to enforce local religious beliefs.

In Virginia, the state runs the liquor stores, but you can get beer and wine at the grocery store. Talk here too about privatizing the liquor stores, but the state makes good money there, so it's a dumb idea if you ask me.

You want messed up laws, go to Pennsylvania. I'll let someone who lives there describe it, but it's messed up.

They are relaxing a bit here and there ... some liquor stores are open on Sundays, now, and there are a few supermarkets that are starting beer or liquor and wine sales, but they are rare.

The bits that people have trouble with are that you can't buy liquor in a beer distributorship, and a state store doesn't sell beer. If you buy beer from a distributorship, you have to buy a case. If you want less than a case, you can go to a package store (a restaurant that is licensed to sell beer by the six-pack or sometimes by the each, they cannot necessarily sell hard liquor).

Then there's the Sunday sales thing ... many stores are open, but only until 5pm on a Sunday.

And you can't buy a car (or sign other sales contracts) on a Sunday.

And you can't hunt on a Sunday, unless you're shooting crow, fox, or coyote.

I tried to get a beer in Pa. a few years back (to ease symptoms) and it was completely nutty. I had to go into a bar to buy a beer to take out.

In ohio you can buy beer, wine and "fake" liquor (that watered down crap like kamchatka diluted vodka, etc.) at United Dairy Farmers and most gas stations. No real liquor till eleven on sundays; and they stop selling all booze from 11:00pm till like seven a.m. Which is nuts coz those are the times you need it!!

We were charged with making dinner one day on vacation in Pennsylvania, and we went to the grocery store to get supplies, except there was no beer or wine there, so we asked someone, and they said we had to go to the liquor store, and (I think I'm remembering this correctly) we showed up at the liquor store, where we could buy the wine, but not the beer. So we asked there, and they said we had to go to a beer distributor to buy the beer, but refused to recommend one, so we drove around blindly until we saw beer signs, and went into this warehouse, and the smallest thing they sold was a case. We only wanted a six pack, so they told us to go to a bar. We didn't know where a nearby bar was, so we just bought a case. Meanwhile, we drove past the liquor store on Main street like 5 times during all this. It would have been a lot easier to just go buy a bottle of vodka or something to drink with dinner.

If the idea is to give you a healthy relationship with alcohol, Pennsylvania is doing it all wrong. They are encouraging you to DRINK, and not moderately.

Our grocery stores don't sell hard liquor ever. They do sell that 3.2 crap though which I never thought was worth the bother in my drinking days. Do you know how much 3.2 you need to drink to get a buzz? I don't, because my bladder always gave out.

It used to be that our privately owned liquor stores couldn't sell anything on Sunday. However, at a store called "State Line" that is right on the border of Colorado and New Mexico (which has far more liberal liquor laws), you could drive the 40 miles or so from here to there and buy all the liquor you wanted and take it home. State Line cured many of my Sunday hangovers back in the day. :drunk:

The Colorado Legislature finally legalized the sale of liquor here on Sundays a while back. However, I still don't think you can buy liquor on election days until after the polls close.

Also, it is illegal to sell liquor on either the Navajo or Ute Reservations - ever. I'm not sure if this is due to a blue law or an effort to lessen the decimating effect of alcohol on Native Americans. Whatever the reason for its implementation, the liquor ban on the rez is a joke. There are plenty of bootleggers who will sell Natives whatever they want - for a higher fee, of course.

Our village store sells everything. Beers, ales (great selection!) ciders, wines, champagne, spirits (liquor).

Though it does close at 9pm :p

I forgot about Dallas (maybe all of Texas).
To get a drink (cocktail or hard liquor) in a bar,
you had to bring your own booze (from a State liquor store).

When you entered the bar, you gave your bottle (in a brown paper bag)
to the waitress, and the drinks you ordered were mixed by the bartender.

I hope that has changed.

I would assume so, as I have been to a bar and ordered a drink on many occasions.

The blue laws I get, but why oh why are there laws about selling cars on the weekend? It's weird.

In Minnesota, liquor stores are closed on Sundays and grocery and convenience stores only sell 3.2 beer. Many people cross the border (Wisconsin) if they didn't plan ahead.

Wisconsin? Blue Laws with alcohol? Get real.

for reals.

Wisconsin is one of the drinkingest places I've ever been.

Round here everybody but Chik Fil-A is open on Sunday. You must get as much business as you can draw in order to make rent.

That's cuz you int never been to Blighty

that's true. It's the one thing that really frightens me about Ye Olde - sooooooooooo much temptation to just really throw down and drink. Not Cancun-vacation drinking, but really professional drinking. The World Cup of drinking, as it 'twere.

When they relaxed the restrictions on alcohol sales there was all this stuff in the press about how we'd somehow take on a more adult, more civilised, more...well, continental relationship with drink.

Hahahahaha. Ahh dear me.

Last time I went through halifax town on a weekend evening, there was a gang of teenagers straggling through the town centre, one of whom spent more time lay on the floor than actually walking.

They provided the chimp enclosure with an unending supply of cheap bananas and expected said chimps to exercise temperance and self-control :p

I count myself in that. Though I don't drink so much I do drink moe than is entirely healthy and worse still, I am a 'binge drinker', in that I will go periods without touching alcohol, then when I do I drink to excess. By excess I mean that I exceed healthy levels of alcohol. But I am considered by most of my friends to be a relatively light drinker.

Drinking is a massive part of British culture. Most adult hobbies involve meeting in pubs at some point. Caving or potholing, or climbing up a mountain in the crisp winter air? Well, that needs rounding off with a pub meal and plenty of ale. Member of a political party? Meet at the Working Men's Club/Labour Club/Conservative Club*/ function room above the Red Lion pub. Been Christmas shopping? Well then time for a slap up Christmas dinner at the Wetherspoons pub with free beer/glass of wine/Christmas cocktail or whatever the offer is that month.

Bad place for anybody who struggles to resist alcohol. Lots of people don't drink, for whatever reason. They don;t like it. They're pregnant. They're driving. They're muslims. But relatively easy for such people to interact with the drinkers happily (or for those whose faith prohibits it there's usually a parrallel non-drinking culture). For someone who struggles with it and therefore avoids being in that situation it can be incredibly isolating.


*member led drinking, pool-playing, darts throwing, light entertainment establishments, usually with large function rooms for hire to wedding parties etc and nominally (or more actively) associated with a political party or movement.

I've just recalled something. From when I was around 18 years old. I'd already moved in with my then boyfriend and had gone to visit my Dad. He took me to his regular pub and bought me a drink.

That was one of those moments when I knew I was an adult. Being bought a drink in a pub by a parent. That's a rite of passage.

It really is a stupid joke. Buy your beer, wine, or whatever on Sat, knowing you can't buy it on Sunday. It is really a non-issue.

The place that it does become an issue is with liquor by the drink or serving beer, etc, in bars or restaurants. Those that have areas that serve it on Sunday get more business than those places that can't serve it on Sunday, so it is really nothing more than economics.

It's not about the relationship with alcohol, it's about paying for the flood that happened 122 75 years ago (There were two floods in the same place, but we're only still paying for the second one).

That is, incidentally a completely accurate description of the Pennsylvania Booze Buying Experience, except you left out the part where you drive into Maryland, Delaware, or New Jersey with the intent of smuggling liquor back into the Commonwealth.

Downunda, bottle shops have one alcohol licence for all kinds of booze. Trading hours for pubs and bottle-ohs are limited by their licence, but I'm not a regular drinker and haven't had a problem with this.

As a result of drunken English munitions workers being blamed for a poor campaign in WWI, our pubs had to close at 6pm, which meant working men got there at 5.30 and drank like pigs for 30 minutes, pissed on the floor, staggered home and vomited on the wife. This arrangement lasted until the 1950s.

Now, Japan ...
Any kind of booze, 24/7, convenience shops, and they're everywhere. 2.7 liter bottles of Glenfiddich in the supermarket for about $50 (very low tax). Beer in vending machines. The drinking age is 18, though, so they put the beer (and cigarette) machines in well lit public places because teenagers would be too ashamed to be seen buying these things. This works. They're ... different.

Can't sign a contract on a Sunday here in pa or NJ. Thank fuck.

I don't even know if it's possible to drink more than Wisconsinites, mid-westerners in general are pretty bad.

I have known NJ car salesmen who would go to the dealership in case folks were wandering the lot on a Sunday, work towards getting the sale and closing it on Monday when they were allowed to sign contracts again.

It's one of the things that usually surprises American and other nationality visitors to our shores. Just how much a part of our culture drinking is, and just how much we drink when we do.

I liked eating in French Army mess halls where I was issued wine with dinner.

Well, they usualy provide wine when there are guests.

But during my mandatory year in the French Navy, we were limited to two beer bottles (8.5 oz each) per day and none if we were on duty.

Here, it is forbidden to sell alcohol and cigarettes to minors (ie: under 18). Most places are closed on Sunday and holidays but nothing religious to it, more like a habit. Not all but many pubs and bars are opened on those days. Depending on their licence, bars and nightclubs can be opened for a long time. I know a few pubs that operate from 6.30 AM to 2.00 AM and some places in and around Paris may be opened 24/7.

Obviously, you never met a English out on a binge. Or a Britton from France (ie: myself) either. Compared to some of my friends, I'm a very light drinker and I'm no choir boy. Some US citizens I met in Paris may even think of me as the Devil's own spawn given the size of the hangover they had in the morning.

Just as an aside, when I was at school in France we were issued a block of cheese automatically with lunch. At the time I found it revolting. I've wondered about it since, but I wrote in my diary that it tasted of nothing apart from dishwater. So I guess it was a local cheese that you had to get used to. I might even like it as an adult (I was 15) but I was a cheese lover even then.

On the same trip I was offered a glass of wine (with or without water) at least half the evening meals. Not when it was just me, the student and her mother, but if they had people over in my honour, or if we went to other houses in return. I was used to this because we were offered half glasses of wine at celebrations at home. One glass was just a ritual thing. I never felt any affect.

What I loved most was being a person of interest. At school, in strangers houses, in the tiny village shops. Everyone dug out their rusty (or better) English to speak to me. And I was treated as if I was 5 years older than my supposed host (student). They thought of me as quintessentially English because I wore skirts and was pale with red cheeks.

I was nauseous with homesickness to be honest.
But it was an extraordinary time.

The thing that annoyed me about Blue Laws was that they discriminated against non-Christian merchants who wanted to be close on their Sabbath.

And after decades of 'standing on principle' and allowing this inequity, the communities then roll over as soon as the first mall developer breaks ground.

I give Chik-Fil-A props on choosing principle over profit in this by being closed on Sunday by choice.

After a few notable drunken incidents at our local stadium in Philadelphia, alcohol was briefly banned. When the furor died down, sales were resumed but prices were raised on the theory that by overcharging customers the fans could not afford to get too drunk.:right:

Public policy through aggressive capitalism.

I give them a high five. ...in the face.... ....with a chair.

I know you've seen that on facebook. I just think it's funny.

I ALWAYS want chic fil a on Sunday.

I ALWAYS forget they're closed.

I ALWAYS get all pissed off when I remember.

As a sergent-chef, I both dined in the club and ate in the conscripts' mess hall. It was in the mess hall that there were crates of various beverages, including unlabeled demi-bouteilles (ou moins que) of wine, next to stacks of steel mess trays and eating utensils to be picked up as one entered the chow line. Perhaps there was a difference between the branches of service; or, the time periods of our experiences. I don't know if availability was restricted to those French soldiers who were off duty [and in civvies?]; but, my team was in uniform and they graciously didn't say anything.

I don't want to get into the stupid we drink more than you arguments, but we drink more than you. :p:

Though seriously, I'm not doubting that many Europeans drink a lot (where do you think Midwesterners learned how to drink). I've had some German friends that could defiantly hold their own, but from little perspective I have, I'm guessing the drinking culture, while different, are pretty much equal in the midwest with parts of Europe. That isn't necessarily a good thing either. I know too many people wasting their lives because of that stuff.

for my two cents - I was a drinker's drinker when I went up to Wisconsin. I was *amazed* at how much/often they drank up there.

This was back about 18 years or so - when PC was PC and everyone tried to be it - but not those Wisconsonites. They were giving their kiddies mocktails - apple juice with 7-up and a maraschino cherry in an old-fashioned glass. Those and candy cigarettes.

They were serious all-day all-night drinkers and they were gearing up the next generation to carry the torch.

Now - if I could just get someone to sponsor a research trip to Old Blighty...I could compare the cultures! I feel a thesis coming on!! :D

My year in the French Navy was 20 years ago. Because I was computer guy and helpful to my superiors (usually fixing the bugs they created ;)), I got invited to the Officer's Club and the NCO mess. It was a lot better for them than for us lowly sailors.

This seems an appropriate place to put a clip of 'Al Murray: Pub Landlord'


Part 2



I don't know what the stereotypical bar owner is like in America, my only point of reference is Sam from Cheers...

A stereotypical English pub landlord is a little Englander, British nationalist, misogynist, bigot, royalist and conservative. Most probably aren't like Al Murray...but I'd be lyin' if I said I had never come across one like that. There are one or two pubs in my town that fly the flag a little too often and have strange ideas about whether it's acceptable for a woman to go to the bar and order drinks :p

Funny: when I went to the UK on an exchange of refs, we went to a high level rugby game in a soccer stadium. The signs said no beer beyond this point. But for the rugby games they waived the rule because the crowds were more behaved.

Rugby fans are better behaved than football fans.
It's the players at local (amateur) rugby clubs that have the bad rep!

Same here in France. I used to live near the Stade de France (North of Paris, 80.000 seats) and witnessed the behavior of soccer/rugby fans.

Ireland vs France (Rugby) : barely 100 policemen for more than 50.000 supporters: no incident yet some guys were more than three sheets to the wind
French Rugby League Final : Same as above

Spain vs France (Soccer) : Around 200 policemen for more than 40.000 supporters: some fighting between inebrieted guys, but nothing major.
Olympique de Marseille vs Paris-Saint-Germain (Soccer French 1st League) : More than 1.500 policemen for more than 60.000 supporters: Many fights between supporters or against the police (and no need for fans to drinks: for them, it is a war!)

If you ever see a documentary called "Hoon Capital", watch it.

Every year there is an all day car race at Bathurst, NSW. Over the years the Holden (trans GM, Vauxhall) and Ford (Ford) fans assemble into their respective tribes at the top of the mountain, get absolutely shitfaced, and go to war. Not to decide anything in particular (Holden Vs Ford is the pretext) but because they want to.
It gets messy.
Recently the cops and race organisers brought in a booze limit.
24 cans, per man, per day.
Or 36 per day if it is light beer.
Or 4 litres of wine per day (I guess for any sheilas or poofs, eh?)
A chap eventually did a PhD on them, and the result is the doco Hoon Capital.

Here is a trailer, there are more snips on Youtube.

10 minute version with a lot more academic talking. I think it makes some good points: