Case to Watch
 

Zombie Mohammad

There is a surprising story out of Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania that seems the perfect storm of religious tensions. You begin with Ernie Perce, an atheist who marched as a zombie Mohammad in the Mechanicsburg Halloween parade. Then you add Talaag Elbayomy, a Muslim who stepped off a curb and reportedly attacked Perce for insulting the Prophet. Then you have a judge (Judge Mark Martin) who threw out the criminal charges against Elbayomy and ridiculed the victim, Perce. The Judge identifies himself as a Muslim and says that Perce conduct is not what the First Amendment is supposed to protect.

Nope. This is exactly what the first amendment is meant to protect. Zombie Muhammad is a great metaphor.

A metaphor is a glorious thing.

It is a very interesting case, on the one hand the judge points out the perceived nature of the attack on Islam by Muslims--this could, by Muslims, be interpreted as inciting to riot, something not protected by the first amendment. But, really only in their own country or culture which would recognize it as such. On the other hand this is the USA and we have a very different cultural identity, as Americans, from Muslims. Being a resident in the US or having a green card, or even being a citizen, is not really the same thing as being an American, in my view. Being an American means having some skin in the game, embracing the values of your (new) country--not trying to get other Americans to change themselves to suit you.

That may not be in the constitution but it is in our country's folklore. When you read stories of immigrants to this country, grateful immigrants, one of the key elements you read about is retaining cultural identity while at the same time adopting the new culture.

A partial exception to that, from personal observation after living 20 some years in and around NYC, might be the Chinese and Koreans. They have really maintained a lot of cultural identity and autonomy without assimilating much, BUT they've really done it within the framework of America's culture.

There is always a problem trying to say what is American.
"as Americans, from Muslims" is a nationality versus a religion.
A lot of Americans are Christian, and a lot of Muslims are Americans
...and a lot of Jews are .... and a lot of ... and a lot... and a ... and...
It becomes meaningless.

A lot of people want to believe America is Christian,
but that's just another wedge issue to divide one group from another.

Likewise, the business of "not trying to get other Americans to change themselves"
is, in my mind, either meaningless, or one of the true characteristics of politics.
Of course, everyone tries to get others to change to suit themselves.

Back to the OP trial, compare the zombie Mohammad with the Westboro Baptist Church (religion),
or burning the American flag or burning a draft card in the 60's (politics)
... it's all pretty much the same stuff..a belief that "my way is better".

I don't see America as being Christian, although I know a lot of people do. I also think that according to what the judge was saying about being a Muslim it is much more than a religion it is a cultural identity.

Yes, people do try to get others to change, but I really think that it mostly happens within the context of our social norms and cultural identity.

I think zealous fundamentalists, regardless of what god they pretend exists, are all pretty much the same once you unwrap them.

To me the scarey part is that instead of defending the zombies right to free speech Christian fundies may realize that common ground with Muslim fundies and start working together to further special exemptions for religious over secular society.

I agree. Muslim and Christian fundamentalists have WAY more in common than they'd like to admit to themselves - and a free, secular society is their common enemy. Rick Santorum is the face of the American Taliban

Wait, the American Taliban is a frothy mix of lube and fecal matter? That actually explains a lot.

Wow, the thought to thought trail of this thread is AMAZING!

Excellent post!

My great grandparents came to this country from Poland and Russia. They would not allow Polish or Russian to spoken in the house as their children would be American. But the FOOD! I still love me some Polish and Russian soul food.

People like Zombie Mohammad could prove to be too stupid to live. Whether his conduct is legal or not, he may end up with a radioactive pellet fired into him from an umbrella gun. Everyone here has been so worried about Iran producing radioactive material for WMD, they haven't even noticed that Iran recently increased its "umbrella" production and export twenty fold. There'll be plenty of the walking dead around if people like Zombie Mohammed continue to PUBLICLY mock the religious icons of others even when done legally.

Good point, sexobon.

Extremists always need a bogeyman to rally their followers. Extremist Christians and Muslims simply serve eac other's needs. Each provides a bogeyman for the other. Then wacko extremists can do what they do best: be emotional.

Are you a good witch or a bad witch ?

Your make-believe game does not excuse you for breaking the law.

If you want to live under Sharia law, there are plenty of countries where you can. You will note that many of them are #$%&ed up hell-holes. There is probably some kind of connection there, but never mind.

See, I'm not that liberal.

WHS ^

While I agree to an extent with what Zen said, I am really uncomfortable with the idea that a Muslim is not an American. I know a family of reasonably devout Muslims who emigrated to America and are doing well in Houston, Texas.

Dad prays five times a day and the family attend Mosque every week.
They celebrate all festivals and fast during Ramadan. They live by the five pillars of Islam. They are moderate people who would not attack anyone in the street, although as per their religion the older generation would feel offended by Zombie Mohammed, same as my father was offended by Piss Christ.

I admire the Dutch, who in a video about emigrating to the Netherlands showed images of topless women and homosexual men. The idea being that if the video offended you, at least you were pre-warned about what you would face in your new home.

Many people are offended by many things. I think some should be open to discussion. Obviously things like abortion and birth control are above discussion and if people are offended by that they should shut their cakehole or go and live in a Catholic country.

All in 4 paragraphs you support one religion and shit on another.
Good job, Sundae.

She supported moderates and shit on theocrats. As it should be.

ETA - posted before I read HP's comment. I suppose I might have been shitting on theocrats. I'm not sure, I don't know how to recognise that feeling.

I was not shitting on anyone.
The last sentence was a tongue in cheek way of turning the tables to see how it looked from a different angle.

I live in a Catholic household with practicing parents.
I don't think my parents should move "back home" to Ireland. Especially as it is only Mum's side that comes from there.

Read like generalizing and stereotyping to me.
Perhaps that wasn't her intent. Dunno.

Interesting that if you beat up Zombie Mohammed and get a Muslim judge, you get off.

Would the same have happened with Zombie Jesus and a Christian Judge? Unlikely, you'd be convicted of assault. Actually, you probably wouldn't have engaged in the assault to begin with, just been offended by the costume, but shrugged it off. Ditto for Zombie Moses.

Ever read To Kill A Mockingbird?

You really weren't; I just used classicman's wording to indicate that your comparison wasn't between Muslims and Catholics, but between moderates and theocrats.

I just had glass topped tables in mind.

Surprising as it may seem, no. But I have seen the movie. Reading it is on my to-do list.

In that case I need to be the girl who cried, Wolf!
Outside of any political or cultural issues, it's such an accessible classic.

Then again, I read it at 14 and have read it about every three years since.
I have no idea what impact it might have on an adult who already knows the story.

The two scenes which imprinted on my brain had nothing to do with the court case.
But they probably were in the film.
Oh and a couple of ideas and images.
You know - it was good to read it young :)

"Shits on theocrats" .... user title!