The Pope reprimands Catholic Nuns in U.S.
 

It will be interesting to follow...

NY Times
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: April 18, 2012
Vatican Reprimands a Group of U.S. Nuns and Plans Changes

Bad penguins, bad, bad penguins.

I bet they all weigh the same as a duck, too!


Yeah, how dare women try to think for themselves, or question male Bishop's authority.

Sandwich-time, sister!

Nuns don't kill faith, "bishops, who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith" kill faith.

:lol: totally unintentional, I hadn't seen Sexybon's post when writing mine!

I am sooooo curious as to what the Vactican considers “radical feminist themes". I'm guessing wearing pants, having a career, and pretty much all that stuff that everyone else sorted out in the 20th century.

Sisters are doin' it for themselves! You go ladies.

in elementary school one nun was very gentle, one was mean, and the principal was an amazingly strong and intelligent and compassionate woman. My mom and I still talk about her.

One Nun was a racehorse
Tutu was one too
One Nun won one race
Tutu won one too!

I'm not Catholic, so this event is not really my concern. But during my career I had
about 5 years working with a particular Order of sisters in Oregon, Mississippi, and Quebec.
It took the first year to develop a trust between us, but eventually I came to appreciate
and truly enjoy and admire who these women were, and what they were doing with their lives.
I posted this news item because I anticipate this will be a momentous event for the Catholic Church in the US.

The role of women in the Church has taken a serious hit since the Pope declared
that women could not become priests, and were destined to play a secondary role in the Church.

This single decision essentially strangled the number of young women in North America
deciding to become nuns, and many, many women left their traditional roles as nuns.

Link
.
The question may turn out to be, will there be any sisters left in the North American Church after this reprimand from this Pope.

The dark ages called, they want their religion back.

Awesome.

The Vatican Owns America. FYI.. maybe IBRAM should think about trying to get a job as a nun..

LOLs, she should do it, just for the giggles.

JBK - you really are being a dick. Intentional or not.

Sister Simone Campbell touches on a lot of the Churches' problems in this short interview. The anti-Vatican II leadership, reactionary politics over gospel teachings, disparagement of women... it goes on. I wouldn't be too concerned about Klydes imaginings, the Church has enough real problems that the faithful need to face.

Ibs can be a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence.
Derek Jarman is one of their saints.

Perpetual? You think it could be habit forming?

Aren't you already on report?

I think the problems all stem from letting them have their own names and wear civilian clothes.

Let's face it. There are no surprises in the Catholic Church in terms of roles. There is no great likelihood that either female or married priests will be part of the program.

Pope Benny is rolling back Vatican II changes.

The Holy Roman and Apostolic Church is not about innovation.

Why is anyone surprised by that?

I think many people of our generation grew up in a changeable hippie Mass kind of church where the Voldemort Catechism was less referenced and people gave a shit about doing good by their neighbor. That is dead now but these ladies committed to it before it was eliminated. It is sad that they don't just form their own Church but the fuckers in the pointy hats own all the property so they'd be part of the homeless problem they try to address.

Hmm, I wonder? How much support would they get from a community that's fed up with the way the catholic church has turned Santorumy.
And if the pointy hats had to hire replacements, even at minimum wage with no health insurance, it would be a major nut. Hmm

Dominique, nique, nique, over the land he plods, And sings a little song, Never asking for reward...

I was surprised by the reaction of another Catholic school parent who is very connected to the Church. She wants the nuns to fight this by all possible means. I had assumed that most of us who support the nuns had already left the Church, but there are obviously some left willing to fight it out. There would be support for the Orders both inside and outside the Church, but a retirement bomb is about to go off as well. I think changing the Church is a lost cause, but I wish them well in the effort. I feel like the Church can do good in the world when their approach aligns with the nuns but not when overtly political bishops call the shots. When I left, I considered looking into a liberal Episcopalian parish but what I find I miss is the connections inside my rural community, not religion. These nuns represent connectedness to me. The bishops represent totalitarianism.

My observation/conversations with a lot of catholics, leads me to think most catholic's important connection with the Church is the nuns. They know the parish priest but he's on a pedestal/soapbox, a higher plane with the pointy hats. The nuns, although some were teacher-terrorists, are more approachable and a lot of people have told me nuns evoke fond memories/feelings.

But never being Catholic, this is hearsay.

But but but... This is SPARTA!

First, let me say I am not anti-Catholic.
I have credentials of working directly with/for the Church,
and with good conscience I can utter that famous
... "Some of my best friends are ..."

But when a church takes on political activities, I can not be any more
tolerant of that church than I would of any political body.

I find the following thrust of the Catholic hierarchy to be political,
and therefore subject to political debate.

Washington Post
Michelle Boorstein,
July 11, 2012

Arlington Diocese parishioners question need for fidelity oath
To wit:

I think its clear that the Church is committed to a purge. I've severed my ties but if you're still in it to win it, check out Spiritus Christi in Rochester as a model for change.

Back in the day (and by "the day" I mean as recently as the 1980s), the only credentialling requirement for teachers in the Catholic schools was a letter from their parish priest attesting to the fact that they were a Catholic in good standing with the church.

St. Ann's in the article is right in my neighborhood. Over the last 15 years, I've pruned their trees that have branches sticking out over the sidewalk. Fuckers just let them grow and block the sidewalk. I used to occasionally stick the bypass pruners in the basket of our baby stroller, so when we were walking past, I could just pull them out and cut branches off their trees and drop them in their parking lot. Somebody else is doing it too, but they just snap the branches and let them dangle. These days, when I notice the branches are getting out of control, I'll just walk home and get the pruners and come back to work on the trees.

Also, if you happen to be going by at 5:25 on a Saturday afternoon, be careful. Those Catholics come zooming in at the last minute and they are almost late, so they aren't so careful about pedestrians. Nobody gets hurt, but it's a little annoying.

I don't totally hate St. Ann's. I know a couple families who go there and they are really good friends. Good people. You would like them. Wonder what they think of these loyalty oaths.

Oh, one last thing about St. Ann's. They had this old run down house on their property that they used for AA meetings and stuff. They decided to remove the building, so they let the fire department spend a couple days setting it on fire and practice putting it out. That was fun to watch.

I wouldn't expect their care-taking to get better as their numbers decrease. There is an assumption that the people who stay with the Church will be the "better" Catholics more engaged better tithers etc... but I don't buy it completely. The choirs I remember were full of Vatican II types the CCD teachers a mixed lot the folks that showed up to work festivals were mixed some just neighbors not Catholics. A lot of the work that got done at our Church was just in the name of community not religion. I think the Bishops have so many yes men around them that they think the core of the Church are hard right true believers. We talked about leaving the Church a long time before we did it. The final straw was Lil' Griff's Confirmation. The Bishop decided it was time for a full-fledged wide ranging Cellar style abortion/small family rant instead of a coming of age conversation. I finally realized how unwelcome I was in a parish that was founded by my own Great great grandfather.

Same round here, children being dropped off late at St Louis school. Residential area (the convent and school were there first), narrow roads, parked cars and - obviously! - children about.

The cars take the sharp turn up the school drive at what I guess is nearly 40mph, without indicating and sometimes even talking on their mobile phones. And they have the temerity to have Child On Board signs in their cars?!

I'm not claiming it's a Catholic thing though. My C of E school comes with similar parents, to the extent we had to have a PSCO (police community support officer) outside of the school for a week, issuing tickets to dissuade people from dangerous driving/ parking/ abandoning their cars where they fancied. The driving changed temporarily, but bad habits are creeping back...

It is a Catholic thing.

The idea is that you have Holy Days of Obligation. You are obligated to make an appearance. But you aren't obligated to stick around afterwards for coffee hour. So they zoom in at the last minute, and roar out as soon as it's over. I know, I used to be one.

I used to be one, too.

Then I woke up.

Pope Shnope. Fuck em all.

You're a Lutheran, aren't you. Lutherans have coffee hour. Catholics have breakfast a a diner, since they've had to starve themselves for at least an hour before mass started so they can take Communion (It's like swimming). So, actually, they are rushing out to be first in line.

I actually had a short frank talk with Dad about this a few minutes ago. The regular priest was out yesterday and the replacement from the diocese gave them a talk on the evils of cafeteria Catholicism.

Apparently Methodists and Lutheran in Lake Wobegon, MN don't have all these problems. Maybe Cardinals should spend more time listening to "A Prairie Home Companion" every weekend for better ideas. Just think. It might even inspire a Vatican III.

They were featured at the Rat City Rollergirls bout last month:

Attachment 39827

Attachment 39828

... with holy fire in their eyes



Here's a NY Times with a bit of history and an update.

The women of the 60's are now grey-haired, but still on the movement.

Nice voice! Will these old nuns outlive Rome?

Possibly the pope will learn why you shouldn't piss off the people that choose whether or not to starch your underwear. :eyebrow:

Sister Sherman fights back.

somewhat off topic...

The Pope now has a twitter handle @pontifex.

*chuckle*

Being the pope and all, you'd hope he was following someone!

Another WOW !

I'm not a member of the Catholic Church.
But I do think it's important to follow the politics of this Church
because it affects the politics of so many countries.

Today, there are announments of the new Pope that are truly important...

NY Times
By JIM YARDLEY and JASON HOROWITZ
Published: December 16, 2013

Pope Replaces Conservative U.S. Cardinal on Influential Vatican Committee

My executive summary of that quoted text:

Two steps forward, one step back. Could be worse.

The older I get, the more annoyed I get with organised religion.
Then again, perhaps it's just that the older I get, the more annoyed I get.

It's probably a good thing that I am slated to die young, otherwise I'd self combust by the time I reached 60.

Sounds like he knows how the game is played, and is willing to leave his ivory tower to get down and dirty. Don't fuck with the bouncer. :haha:

By coincidence or design, another anniversary for my posting

This year the situation is much better....


Vatican Report Cites Achievements and Challenges of U.S. Nuns
NY Times
LAURIE GOODSTEIN
DEC. 16, 2014

An apropos joke:

A guy from the Bronx has a wild, sex and booze fueled debauched weekend. Monday morning he goes to his parish priest, Father Mazzanotti, and makes a confession to assuage his guilt. Needless to say the priest is wholly (haha) taken aback and prescribes a severe penance including daily mass, fasting, stations of the cross, charity work, novenas, the whole megillah. (haha again)

On his way to work the guy is beside himself at the enormity of his penance, figuring it will take weeks and all of his vacation time. He gets off the subway on the lower east side and decides to stop into a church near his work and get a second opinion.

Father Ruiz is hearing confessions that morning and the man goes in and confesses the same sins including a few more from the weekend that he remembered on the train ride. Father Ruiz listens and says, "God is forgiving, my son. Ligth a candle, say two Hail Marys and an Our Father, and put five bucks in the poor box."

The guy is flabbergasted and says to Father Ruiz "I confessed those same sins to my parish priest and he gave me this enormous penance: daily mass, fasting, stations of the cross, charity work, novenas, the whole megillah." "Why the difference?"

Father Ruiz says to him "Ahhh, what do they know about fancy fucking in the Bronx?"


And no, neither the nun nor anyone else fainted.

Pope lambasts the Curia. Not one Cellar moderate has a comment? Is this board slowly conceding to its extremists? Do moderates now fear to discuss issues because extremists will make discussion nasty?

I just hope he has the stamina, chutzpah, and determination,
along with the appropriate number of food-tasters, tactical vests,
and Uguisu-Bari floors to see his philosophy thru to completion.

Almost all the moderates were chased away by asshat extremists like yourself.
Some of us no longer care to discuss these issues as they create such animosity elsewhere on the board.

However, watching/reading you get your ass handed to you repeatedly by noboxes has been quite entertaining. :p:

So what is that philosophy? Have battle lines formed? This Pope clearly defined an enemy. But who in the Curia are examples of that enemy?

I suspect Jesuits have sided with the Pope. But even that is speculation. Are, for example, Dominicans lining up against him? Have Fransicans taken a stand. Or do potential battle lines form along different parameters such as Italians verses non-Italians?

Was his speech before the Curia a declaraion of war? Or will his reform remain as non-existant as it has been so far? Is he simply blowing hot air before an entrenched. too powerful, and self gratifying Curia?

Is there anything worthy of being called a fact? Nasty poster need not post again since, as usual, he has nothing useful to contribute - only cheapshot attacks. I do not see anything that even says why a previous Pope resigned. Does anyone has any indication of what is going on; of what this Pope's strategy really is? Has a underground war broken out? Or is this talk of reform only smoke?

I suspect that until a few years pass we will not know anything certain. But for now,
your questions have the flavor of those who challenge Presidential actions by Obama.
Some only see a black man as President and can't abide it,
while others see a list of his decisions for the US government
as the important initial changes that are/will be beneficial to American society.

Regarding the Pope, I think 2 of my previously postings speak closely to your questions:

loc. cit. #45

loc. cit. #49

Uguisu-Bari floors? Do you think Big Frankie will take the Cards to the mattresses? :eek:

One promotion implied reform. Another implied status quo. The removal of Cardinal Justin Rigali is simply a response to a Philadelphia Archdiocese that all but protected pedophilia. Even the most conservative Pope would have / should have removed that Cardinal. And should have been followed with majore Archdiocese house cleaning - that as best I can tell did not happen.

Evidence concerning actual reform is vague. Plenty of talk with little obvious action. Apparently the Church needs another butler to leak memos. Since that forces action.

TW: I have no strong ideas about how Pope Francis is going to succeed.
Demoting bishops and cardinals who speak out against him is only a tactic, not a strategy.
But one indicator for the future may well be to follow the future of Seattle Archbishop J. Peter Sartain.

On one hand, he has been given “directorship” of the Leadership Council of Women Religious (LCWR)
which represents about 80 percent of America’s 57,000 nuns. And so far, it appears the Pope and
the Archbishop are favorably disposed towards the stated mission of the LCWR.

On the other hand, watching what happens with Seattle's Cardinal Gerard Muller may also be an indicator
… if this outspoken Cardinal is demoted or in other ways loses power, I would view that as a sign the Pope is succeeding.

Archbishop Sartain is also a good indicator regarding opening the church’s records about the whole pedophile mess.
Seratain will "decide" an important response regarding a particular cleric in the Seattle area,
where a retired judge and a District Attorney have “requested / demanded”
the records on that case held by the Church’s Review Board.

Devil is in those details.

Another interesting event was couples testifying before top Church leadership on their sex lives and why sex (not for reproduction) is so critically important to a strong marriage. I suspect this was, to bishops and Cardinals, equivalent to a topless strip club visit. Bishops and Cardinals should be teaching sex 'not for reproduction' (and birth control) as essential to being a good Catholic. Maybe they could start by reading an old book, "The Joy of Sex".

What previous Pope tried to introduce church management to the 20th Century? Those 16th Century leaders have little grasp of the 21st Century. They even and suddenly discovered pedophilia is evil.

This Pope may have forced demented Church leadership to learn what was common knolwledge in the roaring 20s. So yes, this Pope may be doing some things to reform his church. But we still do not see big actions. We only see bits and pieces - details.

Who really is in control? The Pope or the Curia? An answer only possible by learning details - such as were leaked by the Pope's Butler. After the Pope's pre-Christmas speech, some expected to learn by how the Curia responded. Apparently secrecy to protect evil is still SNAFU.
That should have occurred in every juridiction all over the world decades ago. Described is nothing new. Lynn Abraham in Philadelphia did that almost 15 years ago. And still extremists in the PA Legislature refuse to reform State laws to prosecute pedophiles and those who protect pedophiles. A problem that still exists in most states in this nation.

Seratain may only be doing what every bishop and Cardinal should have been force by state and Federal laws to do decades ago. We know the Church openly protected pedophiles in so many nations including the most Catholic nations of Ireland and Spain.

So what was Monty Python saying? Nobody (still) expects the Spanish Inquisition ... that would actually attack evil. Where is Cardinal Fang when we need him to institute reform using a Fluffy Cushion? Is that also being done behind the scenes?

... at least he would hear them coming. :ninja:







I apologize... the devil made me do it.